Player Discussion Marner

[57 Years No Cup]

The Marner Defense Team is in full shrill mode now. Their toxicity will eventually affect the team. They don't care though. Marner's paycheck pays their bills. Screw the team's playoff success...

 

[notDatsyuk]

I wish that this is how negotiations went... too bad this isn't reality, I think there are a handful of contracts heavily influenced by the postseason.

Also, the standard has been set by players who produce less getting massive contracts.

Matthews has been a better postseason player, but Nylander hasn't, so there is your floor and ceiling if you want to use the postseason.

Oops - yes, Matthews has been a better postseason player, but Nylander has been the best, so there is your ceiling if you want to use the postseason.

 

[notDatsyuk]

This is my mindset as well. Letting him walk for nothing sucks. At least if you resign him he’s an asset you can move later if things don’t work out. I just think as much as we want more from him letting him go to UFA will be a big mistake because you will not get any sort of value back for him that way. I’m not opposed to him not being a leaf but trading him is the only thing that makes sense.

My concern is that, even if you sign him for as little as $12M, and even if you can sign him without a full NMC, will you be able to trade him, and if so, will you get back as much as the $12M cap space would give you?

That's a lot of "if"'s.

 

[HamiltonNHL]

The expiring contract hangs over his head like a dark cloud and after a solid start to the season, Marner is reminding us all of the intangibles he brings to the table.​

There is no dark cloud.

It'd be nice to keep him at a fair deal, but that's not likely to happen.

The Leafs do not need him.

 

[notbias]

Oops - yes, Matthews has been a better postseason player, but Nylander has been the best, so there is your ceiling if you want to use the postseason.

If you think this, then playoffs have no influence on contracts to Treliving, so discussing playoffs and contracts is pointless.

 

[francis246]

My concern is that, even if you sign him for as little as $12M, and even if you can sign him without a full NMC, will you be able to trade him, and if so, will you get back as much as the $12M cap space would give you?

That's a lot of "if"'s.

I rather take my chances with that then sign a middle aged forward who will for sure not be worth their contract

 

[Gary Nylund]

I’m not sure haters is the right word, he’s like that kid who has so much more to give, but just leaves us disappointed. But I will gladly eat some crow

People mindlessly use the hater label. Among many others, I've been called a hater countless times which is stupid. I'm trying to be objective, I refuse to ignore Marner's shortcomings and the only thing I hate is the way he keeps choking in key games/moments and I'm sure the same goes for most of the other people here who people keep calling haters.

as many of you have alluded to before. People with NMC's have been swayed to move before. If the time comes Marner would waive, just like every other player has. People typically don't stick around where they are not wanted. and with the full NMC marner would be able to dictate where he goes next. So if management actually approached marner and said we don't want you here anymore he would waive. That hasn't happened to date.

That's a dangerous assumption to make. I wouldn't count on it.

If you think this, then playoffs have no influence on contracts to Treliving, so discussing playoffs and contracts is pointless.

Why is it pointless?

 

[notbias]

Why is it pointless?

Because it has no relevance to contracts according to the poster.

The original post said Nylander > Matthews in the playoffs, their contracts are the opposite, so clearly Treliving doesn't believe playoffs matter (according to this poster) when giving out contracts.

 

[Gabriel426]

It shouldn’t.

The path forward is clear already.

Well if they win the Cup, then it is okay to resign MM unless he plays like complete crap the whole playoffs.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Because it has no relevance to contracts according to the poster.

The original post said Nylander > Matthews in the playoffs, their contracts are the opposite, so clearly Treliving doesn't believe playoffs matter (according to this poster) when giving out contracts.

It might not matter to Treliving, but maybe it should. Seems like a subject worthy of discussion to me.

 

[HamiltonNHL]

Well if they win the Cup, then it is okay to resign MM unless he plays like complete crap the whole playoffs.

If they win the cup, MM 20 x 8.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Well if they win the Cup, then it is okay to resign MM unless he plays like complete crap the whole playoffs.

Or if playoffs don't matter, then it doesn't matter if Marner plays like crap and we lose 4-0 in the 1st round. Pay that man his money.

 

[REALTALK81]

Plays in every situation? Like this?



Or this ?




Show me the top 3 goals of Marner in the postseason that you think are the "play driving" type in clutch situations.

Here's 3 Willy goals.









Marner's goals in the postseason.

Lmao. Are you judging a known playmaker on his goal scoring prowess? I thought I clearly indicated one scores goals and the other plays in all situations in the post of mine that you quoted. Marner plays on the PP and PK. Hence "All situations". He has more points in reg season AND in the playoffs. Also was nominated for a Selke as a winger which is something Nylander could never say. To think you spent all that time scouring youtube for Marner's goals as a rebuttal against something I never said is next level. Perhaps next time, read what I actually wrote and save yourself a ton of copy and pasting.

 

[HamiltonNHL]

Look at the locks

 

[Gabriel426]

I rather take my chances with that then sign a middle aged forward who will for sure not be worth their contract

Really depends on who they sign with that money and how they do in playoffs.

I just don’t see of let’s run it back AGAIN if they get knocked out in the 1st round again while the top guys choke AGAIN.

Uninterested is the comment Ferraro used to describe MM in Game 7. That’s not a 10mil plus player should be showing

 

[HellasLEAF]

He's not 'walking for nothing'. I don't think it will ever get to that. Not prescribing to that.

 

[Evilhomer]

He's not 'walking for nothing'. I don't think it will ever get to that. Not prescribing to that.

He is 1,000% resigning with Toronto.

 

[Enniskillen]

Marner is collecting his garbage points and his personal fans are happy. We are not fooled cause we know he withers when it matters. It seems like some care more about the player than the team. Is it a cult or something?

 

[Racer88]

He is 1,000% resigning with Toronto.

I at least hope they don’t sign him until we see how he does in the playoffs

 

[notDatsyuk]

If you think this, then playoffs have no influence on contracts to Treliving, so discussing playoffs and contracts is pointless.

Presumably you're suggesting that the difference between Marner and Nylander in the regular season is no greater than the difference between Matthews and Nylander in the regular season.

You really have to think more logically.

I rather take my chances with that then sign a middle aged forward who will for sure not be worth their contract

I'm not sure I follow - who is the "middle aged forward who will for sure not be worth their contract"?

 

[notDatsyuk]

People mindlessly use the hater label. Among many others, I've been called a hater countless times which is stupid. I'm trying to be objective, I refuse to ignore Marner's shortcomings and the only thing I hate is the way he keeps choking in key games/moments and I'm sure the same goes for most of the other people here who people keep calling haters.

Not at all. In most cases it is very deliberate and intentional.

It's a perfect example of the Ad Hominem fallacy - attacking the person rather than the argument. By labelling someone as a 'hater', they try to dismiss the argument because the arguer's 'hatred' makes his argument somehow invalid.

More often than not, it is a sign that the person using an Ad Hominem fallacy is aware they have lost the real argument.

 

[notDatsyuk]

It might not matter to Treliving, but maybe it should. Seems like a subject worthy of discussion to me.

That wasn't what I said in the original post, but he's twisted it to his own purpose.

 

[francis246]

Not at all. In most cases it is very deliberate and intentional.

It's a perfect example of the Ad Hominem fallacy - attacking the person rather than the argument. By labelling someone as a 'hater', they try to dismiss the argument because the arguer's 'hatred' makes his argument somehow invalid.

More often than not, it is a sign that the person using an Ad Hominem fallacy is aware they have lost the real argument.

There’s only one person I believe hates Marner in this thread. The rest I think just feel it’s time for change.

 

[Evilhomer]

I at least hope they don’t sign him until we see how he does in the playoffs

I think he and Tavares will end up signing during the season. The team will likely be near the top of the league, so most fans will love seeing these guys resigned. Whether signing one or both is a good thing for the team may be a different story, but this franchise doesn't work that way. It's brand before all.