Player Discussion Marner

[Gabriel426]

Point and Barkov won more rounds than Nylander and Matthews too, so Point and Barkov are better than Nylander and Matthews? While we are at it lets follow your logic, Lorentz has won more rounds and cups than Matthews, Marner and Nylander, so Lorentz is better than, Matthews, Marner and Nylander.

So you think where people are picked indicates who is a better player? Michael Henrich was picked 158 spots before Pavel Datsyuk, so based on your indisputable logic, Michael Henirch is better than Pavel. Where a player is drafted is a stupid way to gauge his value to a team, especially in a Country on Country best on best. These kind of drafts, politics as much as what you need, come into play. Afterall you are only drafting against yourself, it's not like if you dont pick a player, he will be picked by another country... picked 1st or 20th it does not matter.

But you do you, no matter how shakey your premise is.

What are you on about?

You really are defending MM to no ends.

Fact, as a leader and one of the highest paid players in the League and Leafs, MM had not lead the Leafs to any playoffs success along with AM, JT and Willie.

Is Barkov and Point better than Willie, yep.

Is Barkov and Point better than AM, nope.

Where did I ever mentioned where players are picked in the NHL draft is important? There are 1st overall bust all the time. NHL draft position is just a way for the players to get into the NHL, what they do in the NHL is up to them and not their draft position. I do think the higher the draft position the more second and third chance the players will have.

When it comes to 4 nation Cups or any International torunaments, the first few players selected long belong the tournament and before other players are selected are LOCKS. Which means regardless of how horrible and bad they play in the season leading up to the tournament , they will be on the team and that’s not just some Mickey Mouse thing bc the coach or politics or whatever. It means the players selected are back by the MGT regardless of their plays in the regular season bc MGT trust them to perform during the tournament.

Lastly, if MM was selected as one of the 6 players, and someone said it is bc of politics or they need a Leafs or Cooper is trying to pry MM or TB….you and a few others will come up with stats that supports MM being selected….

Like I said, you do you brother.

Cooper is 100% going to pick his own player after the whole Steve Yzerman and Martin St. Louis thing with Tampa.

Does he has to do it as first 6 players and not just having Point on the team when the rest of the roster is announced?

Point is a better player than MM and play C or wing.

A better argument that MM deserves to be in the 6 players selected would be Marchand and not Point.

 

[Gabriel426]

He can pick Point 1st or 20th, in the end Point is going to be on the team, just like Marner is going to be on the team. If Point is not picked in the first group after winning multiple cups with Cooper, it would be a sign of disrespect, so as a coach you want to give players on your team the warm and fuzzies. It's a small gesture that goes a long way in the locker room. Point is the best Canadian playing on TB, of course he is going to pick Point in the first group.

Do you really think Point is a better player than Beddard, Stamkos, etc. ?

Point is better than Bedard and Stamkos.
maybe in a few years Bedard will be better but not now.

Also, you are stretching with the Cooper playing favourite if you want to make a case that MM deserves to be one of the 6 players, the focus should be on Marchand and not Point.
Point is a better player now and can play C.

Maybe you’ve never been part of a team but all things equal a coach will always choose his own player over another teams player.
I’m sure he knows it’s important to Point.

You are stretching with Point over MM bc of Cooper.

Like I mentioned, if you and others want to make a case that MM deserves to be the 6 players selected, use Marchand as a example and not Point.


Lastly, the fact that none of you ever bring the MM deserves to be selected as one of the 6 players for 4 nations Cup….over Point bc of Cooper….just shows that when it was announced you guys admit or at the very least agree to the selection of all 6 players over MM.
There were only two things that I ever read and heard after the announcement, 1. thought Makar and others that played in the WJC team can’t play due to the investigation. 2. Marchand should be selected but there are other players that should be selected before him.
For example, If AM is Canadian and he didn’t get selected as one of the 6 players, all of us will be crying foul and saying it is politics……

 

[blue stick]

This thread is like deja vu all over again.

 

[ACC1224]

Point is better than Bedard and Stamkos.
maybe in a few years Bedard will be better but not now.

Also, you are stretching with the Cooper playing favourite if you want to make a case that MM deserves to be one of the 6 players, the focus should be on Marchand and not Point.
Point is a better player now and can play C.


You are stretching with Point over MM bc of Cooper.

Like I mentioned, if you and others want to make a case that MM deserves to be the 6 players selected, use Marchand as a example and not Point.


Lastly, the fact that none of you ever bring the MM deserves to be selected as one of the 6 players for 4 nations Cup….over Point bc of Cooper….just shows that when it was announced you guys admit or at the very least agree to the selection of all 6 players over MM.
There were only two things that I ever read and heard after the announcement, 1. thought Makar and others that played in the WJC team can’t play due to the investigation. 2. Marchand should be selected but there are other players that should be selected before him.
For example, If AM is Canadian and he didn’t get selected as one of the 6 players, all of us will be crying foul and saying it is politics……

I never said nor expected Marner to be one of the 6. I’m saying Cooper picked his own player. You’re putting way more thought into this than Cooper would have.

 

[notDatsyuk]

Cooper is 100% going to pick his own player after the whole Steve Yzerman and Martin St. Louis thing with Tampa.

That's assuming the players are equal. If his choice is Point or McD, does he 100% pick Point? If his choice is Point or Engvall and he picks Point, is that just because Point is his own player?

 

[Gabriel426]

I never said nor expected Marner to be one of the 6. I’m saying Cooper picked his own player. You’re putting way more thought into this than Cooper would have.

I am saying that’s not valid as Point is chosen bc he is a better player than all the other Canadian players that were not chosen.

That's assuming the players are equal. If his choice is Point or McD, does he 100% pick Point? If his choice is Point or Engvall and he picks Point, is that just because Point is his own player?

That’s not fair bc MM is not 6’4 like Engvall, lol

 

[ACC1224]

That's assuming the players are equal. If his choice is Point or McD, does he 100% pick Point? If his choice is Point or Engvall and he picks Point, is that just because Point is his own player?

jesus dude

 

[francis246]

What are you on about?

You really are defending MM to no ends.

Fact, as a leader and one of the highest paid players in the League and Leafs, MM had not lead the Leafs to any playoffs success along with AM, JT and Willie.

Is Barkov and Point better than Willie, yep.

Is Barkov and Point better than AM, nope.

Where did I ever mentioned where players are picked in the NHL draft is important? There are 1st overall bust all the time. NHL draft position is just a way for the players to get into the NHL, what they do in the NHL is up to them and not their draft position. I do think the higher the draft position the more second and third chance the players will have.

When it comes to 4 nation Cups or any International torunaments, the first few players selected long belong the tournament and before other players are selected are LOCKS. Which means regardless of how horrible and bad they play in the season leading up to the tournament , they will be on the team and that’s not just some Mickey Mouse thing bc the coach or politics or whatever. It means the players selected are back by the MGT regardless of their plays in the regular season bc MGT trust them to perform during the tournament.

Lastly, if MM was selected as one of the 6 players, and someone said it is bc of politics or they need a Leafs or Cooper is trying to pry MM or TB….you and a few others will come up with stats that supports MM being selected….

Like I said, you do you brother.


Does he has to do it as first 6 players and not just having Point on the team when the rest of the roster is announced?

Point is a better player than MM and play C or wing.

A better argument that MM deserves to be in the 6 players selected would be Marchand and not Point.

I’m not saying MM deserves to be in the top 6 or whatever. The top 6 thing is irrelevant today it’s more of a marketing thing. They named 5 forwards and one dman. There’s a few dman I would have committed to before point. But I do think Points relationship with Cooper does play a huge factor into it. Coaches will always choose their guys. I coached high level youth sport and then was fortunate enough to coach both the provincial team and youth national team. I went to bat for a few of my players to be on both the provincial and youth national while I was on those coaching staffs. I trusted those players.

We also have anecdotal evidence from the lightning organization that this kind of stuff matters to the players. It mattered so much that St. Louis requested a trade.

That's assuming the players are equal. If his choice is Point or McD, does he 100% pick Point? If his choice is Point or Engvall and he picks Point, is that just because Point is his own player?

Just a horrible take. Not even worth a response.

 

[notDatsyuk]

jesus dude

I know - it's insane that I have to dummy it down to that extent to get such a simple point across.

 

[notDatsyuk]

Just a horrible take. Not even worth a response.

You're the one who said coaches will always pick their own player, and you think my take was horrible?

 

[Gabriel426]

I’m not saying MM deserves to be in the top 6 or whatever. The top 6 thing is irrelevant today it’s more of a marketing thing. They named 5 forwards and one dman. There’s a few dman I would have committed to before point. But I do think Points relationship with Cooper does play a huge factor into it. Coaches will always choose their guys. I coached high level youth sport and then was fortunate enough to coach both the provincial team and youth national team. I went to bat for a few of my players to be on both the provincial and youth national while I was on those coaching staffs. I trusted those players.

We also have anecdotal evidence from the lightning organization that this kind of stuff matters to the players. It mattered so much that St. Louis requested a trade.



Just a horrible take. Not even worth a response.

The MSL situation is completely different that MSL wasn’t even selected and was only on bc Stammer was injured. Point can be chosen with the rest of the team and not a LOCK(regardless of how he plays leading up to the tournament) like now.

Now we can always make a case of Pietra or Stone on the team over Point but at the end of the day if Point plays on another team, there is still a great chance that he is selected as one of the six players.

No doubt coach will favor their own players just look at how Dubas favor SSM players bc he knows them on a more personal level and understand what makes them tick or struggle…simply put they just have more knowledge of said player. But in this case, I think the familiarity between Point and Cooper either plays very very little or none in the selection bc at the time of selection, he is better than all other Canadians, Pietra was struggling a bit, all other Dmen is really not a true No.1, Stone just come my back from injury, Hyman and Reinhart scored 50 goals but that’s their only season and could be an outliner, Stammer is the safest bet but Point is a better player than Stammer.

Like I said, to me the weakest of the 6 is Marchand and not Point.
Marchand the last two years average around 30 goals and less than 70points while Point had a 50 goals and 40 goals season while getting over 90pts.
It is really hard to say Point got pick bc of Cooper and Marchand got picked bc he is better than Point.

 

[Antropovsky]

Thus far 5v5, Domi has five assists, Marner has 2. Domi doesnt play with a 70 goal scorer either.

 

[francis246]

Thus far 5v5, Domi has five assists, Marner has 2. Domi doesnt play with a 70 goal scorer either.

It’s really weird how you try to make it a domi vs Marner thing consistently. People who have been supportive of Marner aren’t praying for the downfall of other leafs. I think everyone is happy with Domi’s production and most of us would not care if he gets time up on the top line. As long as the team is winning and he’s producing it’s a good thing.

The only person who is consistently divisive and gets off on that ish is you.

 

[notbias]

Thus far 5v5, Domi has five assists, Marner has 2. Domi doesnt play with a 70 goal scorer either.

We are isolating just assists for Marner now? Everyone was doing goals 2 weeks ago...

 

[Antropovsky]

It’s really weird how you try to make it a domi vs Marner thing consistently. People who have been supportive of Marner aren’t praying for the downfall of other leafs. I think everyone is happy with Domi’s production and most of us would not care if he gets time up on the top line. As long as the team is winning and he’s producing it’s a good thing.

The only person who is consistently divisive and gets off on that ish is you.

After years of hearing Marner compared to Gretzky…?

Last seasons, in walks journeyman Domi on a $3 million contract, fresh off his last $3 million deal, and he puts up more 5v5 assists, more assists/60 (2.23 vs 1.73) and more primary assists and assists per 60 than Marner (1.43 vs 1.13). Matthews even produced twice as much with Domi as he did with Marner.

Now, just four games into the season, Domi has three 5v5 assistsmore than Marner, despite Marner playing with 70 goal Matthews.

I just think it’s worth pointing out that the Leafs are fortunate to have three incredible goal scorers (Tavares, Matthews and Nylander) and people were likely giving too much credit to Gretzk...i mean Marner.

 

[Antropovsky]

We are isolating just assists for Marner now? Everyone was doing goals 2 weeks ago...

For years, we were told not to mention Marner's lack of goals or his 'incredible achievements'like 100 consecutive games without a power-play goal or 18 straight playoff games without scoring, because, apparently, 'he’s a playmaker, not to be judged on goals.' And of ourse, he was supposedly boosting Matthews and Tavares to career years they couldn’t reach without his 'elite' playmaking. That myth was debunked last season though

 

[sunstersun]

For years, we were told not to mention Marner's lack of goals or his 'incredible achievements'like 100 consecutive games without a power-play goal or 18 straight playoff games without scoring, because, apparently, 'he’s a playmaker, not to be judged on goals.' And of ourse, he was supposedly boosting Matthews and Tavares to career years they couldn’t reach without his 'elite' playmaking. That myth was debunked last season though

But guys, the one year he played with Tavares he scored like 45 goals.

Ignoring that's the one year Tavares was actually elite with the Leafs before a headlong dive into regression.

Meanwhile Matthews did better last year without Marner on his line lmao.

 

[Shooter2x]

Marner looked pretty awesome last night. The edge work in the slot to open up his line mates was fun to watch.

 

[Hellcat]

Maybe you’ve never been part of a team but all things equal a coach will always choose his own player over another teams player.
I’m sure he knows it’s important to Point.

Always, even in meaningless tournaments like the Four nations.

 

[hockeywiz542]

Nick Kypreos: The Mitch Marner conundrum: A Maple Leafs star, a frustrated fan base and an uncertain future

Marner, Matthews and Nylander have all grown up right in front of our eyes. At this stage, it’s fair to suggest a change to the trio might be best.

www.thestar.com

Mitch Marner has quickly reminded Maple Leafs fans this season of what they have — and what they stand to lose.

He’s a 27-year-old game-breaker with positional intelligence far beyond most of his NHL peers. And after eight years of consistent contributions, you’d think his value would be ingrained into the consciousness of both Leafs Nation and management.

But despite the continued reminders he provides of his world-class talent, the star winger’s future in Toronto beyond this season remains in question.

Since the 2016-17 season, Marner, Auston Matthews and William Nylander have had enough time together to build a championship pedigree. And the signing of John Tavares in 2019 was meant to speed up that process. All these years later, we continue to wait for it to happen.

While the vocal fans on social media remain focused on the narrative that “Mitch never shows up in the playoffs,” the truth is none of the Core Four have truly showed up when the season was on the line.

.......................

We know this summer that Leafs management contemplated a major change with Marner, fresh off scoring 85 points in 69 regular-season games and just three in seven playoff games, but found it too daunting without an eager trade partner willing to entice him out of his no-move clause.

That leaves the Leafs with two clear options as he plays out the final season of his contract: find the money to extend him, or use him as if he’s a rental player for one last playoff run like the Lightning did with captain Steven Stamkos last season before letting him walk in the off-season.

Tampa Bay’s backup plan all along was to replace the money for Stamkos with free-agent Jake Guentzel’s new contract. A similar scenario could play out for Toronto with pending free agents such as Mikko Rantanen, Sam Bennett or Brad Marchand, providing they are still available on July 1.

This season will have to play out much further before a Marner decision needs to be made. In the meantime, we wait and we watch.

 

[Hellcat]

Point is better than Bedard and Stamkos.
maybe in a few years Bedard will be better but not now.

Also, you are stretching with the Cooper playing favourite if you want to make a case that MM deserves to be one of the 6 players, the focus should be on Marchand and not Point.
Point is a better player now and can play C.


You are stretching with Point over MM bc of Cooper.

Like I mentioned, if you and others want to make a case that MM deserves to be the 6 players selected, use Marchand as a example and not Point.


Lastly, the fact that none of you ever bring the MM deserves to be selected as one of the 6 players for 4 nations Cup….over Point bc of Cooper….just shows that when it was announced you guys admit or at the very least agree to the selection of all 6 players over MM.
There were only two things that I ever read and heard after the announcement, 1. thought Makar and others that played in the WJC team can’t play due to the investigation. 2. Marchand should be selected but there are other players that should be selected before him.
For example, If AM is Canadian and he didn’t get selected as one of the 6 players, all of us will be crying foul and saying it is politics……

OK so Point was picked because he is on Coopers team and he is a C... whooptee doo..... If you are Marner and are picked 20th, who cares. More than likely most players would prefer to spend some R & R on the beach vs play in a meaningless cash cow for the NHL. Honestly who freaking cares?

What are you on about?

You really are defending MM to no ends.

Fact, as a leader and one of the highest paid players in the League and Leafs, MM had not lead the Leafs to any playoffs success along with AM, JT and Willie.

Is Barkov and Point better than Willie, yep.

Is Barkov and Point better than AM, nope.

Where did I ever mentioned where players are picked in the NHL draft is important? There are 1st overall bust all the time. NHL draft position is just a way for the players to get into the NHL, what they do in the NHL is up to them and not their draft position. I do think the higher the draft position the more second and third chance the players will have.

When it comes to 4 nation Cups or any International torunaments, the first few players selected long belong the tournament and before other players are selected are LOCKS. Which means regardless of how horrible and bad they play in the season leading up to the tournament , they will be on the team and that’s not just some Mickey Mouse thing bc the coach or politics or whatever. It means the players selected are back by the MGT regardless of their plays in the regular season bc MGT trust them to perform during the tournament.

Lastly, if MM was selected as one of the 6 players, and someone said it is bc of politics or they need a Leafs or Cooper is trying to pry MM or TB….you and a few others will come up with stats that supports MM being selected….

Like I said, you do you brother.


Does he has to do it as first 6 players and not just having Point on the team when the rest of the roster is announced?

Point is a better player than MM and play C or wing.

A better argument that MM deserves to be in the 6 players selected would be Marchand and not Point.

Word salad .... thanks...

 

[Hellcat]

LOL what a bunch of nonsense.

When challenged with a logical thought process you scurry away... bravo chief... poorly played..

 

[Hellcat]

After years of hearing Marner compared to Gretzky…?

Last seasons, in walks journeyman Domi on a $3 million contract, fresh off his last $3 million deal, and he puts up more 5v5 assists, more assists/60 (2.23 vs 1.73) and more primary assists and assists per 60 than Marner (1.43 vs 1.13). Matthews even produced twice as much with Domi as he did with Marner.

Now, just four games into the season, Domi has three 5v5 assistsmore than Marner, despite Marner playing with 70 goal Matthews.

I just think it’s worth pointing out that the Leafs are fortunate to have three incredible goal scorers (Tavares, Matthews and Nylander) and people were likely giving too much credit to Gretzk...i mean Marner.

If I was a betting man, I would surmise that you misread or misinterpreted whatever you think you read... no one is comparing Marner to Gretzky... Jesus dude get some new material...

Ever hear of sample size or regression to the mean?

 

[ACC1224]

I know - it's insane that I have to dummy it down to that extent to get such a simple point across.

If a dumb thought was the goal you succeeded.

 

[Gary Nylund]

I never said nor expected Marner to be one of the 6. I’m saying Cooper picked his own player. You’re putting way more thought into this than Cooper would have.

Sure, why would Cooper put much thought into this. He probably just pulled names out of a hat.

When challenged with a logical thought process you scurry away... bravo chief... poorly played..

What are you, 9 years old? I went to bed ... chief.

You're constantly abrasive, condescending, going off on weird tangents ... I hate to break it to you but that's the opposite of "logical thought process".