Player Discussion Marner

Gary Nylund

Registered User
Oct 10, 2013
30,906
24,236
According to the new technology the NHL uses, Domi’s shot is 10% weaker than Marner’s. Maybe that’s why he doesn’t shoot.

Hardest shot (in MPH)​

Shot Speed
1Matthews91.43
2Nylander89.81
3Liljegren85.02
4Rielly84.88
5Bertuzzi84.73
6Giordano82.51
7McCabe81.83
8Minten81.39
9Knies81.21
10Klingberg80.77
11Gregor80.24
12Jarnkrok80.23
13Tavares79.11
14Marner77.87
15Brodie75.41
16Holmberg72.69
17Domi70.59
18Reaves69.20
19Kampf61.21
I doubt Domi did this sort of analysis/research and decided to shoot less. There's also more to shot quality than speed.

In any case, one shot in 3 games is clearly too low, the coach said he wants him to shoot more so I imagine he'll do just that. He once scored 28 goals, the season before last he scored 20, I think Marner and Domi both can shoot well enough to score more than they did last season.
 

IPS

Registered User
Sep 28, 2017
16,370
26,752
I didnt realize Point was already chosen, while Marner hasnt been. Pretty telling.

I remember the same about certain board members. The list of Players that Marner was easily better than was certainly long, and included, Barkov, Aho, Rantanen, Point, Tkatchuk and Eichel.
I remember some had quite a cow when Marchand was picked as one of the first six as well. Old boy club, favoritism reasons, chemistry reasons, etc... But just completely unfathomable that they may just view him as a better player.
 

Legion34

Registered User
Jan 24, 2006
18,926
8,919
So Heatley is a "top goalscorer" because one season, he got the 6th most goals - the 110th highest goal total this century.
But Marner is not a "top playmaker" despite one season, getting the 3rd most primary assists - the 10th highest primary assist total this century?

And thus, because you just randomly decided against all evidence that goals are uniquely special, it is impossible to compare Marner to the player who is closest to him in P/GP and has a really comparable contract that breaks down your whole argument? Wow, how convenient for you! Oh, we can't look at any of those other players that hurt your argument either? Because... you randomly decided so? Convenient again! Oh, we can only look at specifically Rantanen? That seems kind of odd, but at least we can dig deep and really analyze them and surrounding context to understand their quality and value, right? Oh, we're only allowed to look at the specific stat that you say we can? Hmm...

Sounds a bit like you're starting to realize how easily the house of cards you're selling falls apart.

But at least you're consistent, right? Only real stats! Real stats only! Never ever account for the impact of any opportunity discrepancies! Never!
Oh, what's that? #4 on your list? "Clearly pro rating counts".
Ah, clearly! Clearly! Clearly we should account for differences in opportunity differences outside of a player's control, right?
If McDavid doesn't have an opportunity to play those games, his raw point total isn't going to properly represent his impact when he's there, compared to those who get to play 82.
That's important because the correlation because games and raw production is really high. So clearly, if there were a different player - let's call them Marner - that had a opportunity discrepancy outside of his control, that also had an insanely high correlation with raw production, then clearly we should account for it, right? To be consistent.
You can't dismiss one and use the other. They're the same thing.

You didn't give a direct comparable. You gave a lesser comparable, and are now trying to argue that we should ignore all critical information and pretend that the frequentness of a team's special teams time somehow makes him equal, not how they actually perform. Marner started putting up more points during his second season when he stopped being jerked around, and put up one of the best pre-signing seasons in post-ELC history when he started being treated like the star he'd always been, and put in situations more similar to his peers. That doesn't help your argument. And it's pretty ridiculous that you're attempting to put Marner down for his linemates in one season, when he drove and was the best player on every line he was on, while the likes of Rantanen always played second fiddle and fed off superior players throughout their entire ELC.

Marner was one of the best young players of this century. He absolutely earned what he got. It was consistent with the history of post-ELC contracts, and he continues to earn it.

It’s just easier to admit you are wrong

1.) no one said Marner wasn’t a great playmaker. You have provided NO evidence that primary assists lead to higher contracts.
2.) you are trying to compare 15 years and CBAs apart to Marner with Hartley and Nash who got paid based on goals and ignoring a direct comparable. Miko

3.) you are making up an “opportunity discrepancy” which is just odd. Raw and total production matters more. But yes in case of injury etc it is taken into account.

Points per game is recognized and openly talked about and used (on a secondary level) in websites and analysis. “Opportunity descrepancy” is not quantifiable and an excuse.

4.) even in marners best season. He still had less goals and similar points.

you have still not provided a single instance where 2 compare able stats players at the same time has an 18% descrepancy in salary based on “opportunities” or something.

This is pretty unhinged. It’s all simple. Marners production did not warrant 18%’more than rantanen.

Even taking out Marners 8 game advantage

Marner scored 26 goals and 94 pts
Miko R. Scored 31 goals and 87 pts

In marners star year when he finally got to be what he was supposed to be. They were close in points.

You can believe Marner is better. You can believe he was held down. You cannot prove Marner had any tangible or quantifiable reason to get 18% more
 
Last edited:

thewave

Registered User
Jun 17, 2011
41,417
11,700
According to the new technology the NHL uses, Domi’s shot is 10% weaker than Marner’s. Maybe that’s why he doesn’t shoot.

Hardest shot (in MPH)​

Shot Speed
1Matthews91.43
2Nylander89.81
3Liljegren85.02
4Rielly84.88
5Bertuzzi84.73
6Giordano82.51
7McCabe81.83
8Minten81.39
9Knies81.21
10Klingberg80.77
11Gregor80.24
12Jarnkrok80.23
13Tavares79.11
14Marner77.87
15Brodie75.41
16Holmberg72.69
17Domi70.59
18Reaves69.20
19Kampf61.21

So we have 2 legit shooters with a shot on the team. It makes sense
 

notDatsyuk

Registered User
Jul 20, 2018
11,286
9,210
He signed at 7 with a 22 goal 61 pts season high.
vs
marner 26 goal 94 pts...

Nylander was closer of what we could expect of knies this season than Marner when he resigned
Which wasn't the point - they didn't sign him right away.
 

Antropovsky

Registered User
Jun 2, 2007
15,061
6,727
They are both great players, playing on great teams it’s not surprising they’ve won rounds and cups.
I think most assume he was added to Team Canada because of Cooper.
Cooper? You mean the same Cooper that Marner fans always cite to argue he's a top forward, based on some positive interview comments by Cooper? Funny how those comments didn’t translate into action, considering Marner didn’t even make the first cut for Cooper’s team. Lol.
 
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notDatsyuk

Registered User
Jul 20, 2018
11,286
9,210
It’s just easier to admit you are wrong

1.) no one said Marner wasn’t a great playmaker. You have provided NO evidence that primary assists lead to higher contracts.
2.) you are trying to compare 15 years and CBAs apart to Marner with Hartley and Nash who got paid based on goals and ignoring a direct comparable. Miko

3.) you are making up an “opportunity discrepancy” which is just odd. Raw and total production matters more. But yes in case of injury etc it is taken into account.

Points per game is recognized and openly talked about and used (on a secondary level) in websites and analysis. “Opportunity descrepancy” is not quantifiable and an excuse.

4.) even in marners best season. He still had less goals and similar points.

you have still not provided a single instance where 2 compare able stats players at the same time has an 18% descrepancy in salary based on “opportunities” or something.

This is pretty unhinged. It’s all simple. Marners production did not warrant 18%’more than rantanen.

Even taking out Marners 8 game advantage

Marner scored 26 goals and 94 pts
Miko R. Scored 31 goals and 87 pts

In marners star year when he finally got to be what he was supposed to be. They were close in points.

You can believe Marner is better. You can believe he was held down. You cannot prove Marner had any tangible or quantifiable reason to get 18% more
Since he won't do it, I'll offer you the one tangible reason Marner got 18% more.

Dubas.
 
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Hellcat

Registered User
Jul 13, 2022
2,888
2,622
Good player, but not worth his cap hit - no GM ever.
Good player, wish he didn't go AWOL after game 86 - no GM ever.

This is typical from low information fans, AWOL no, middling yes, he is a PPG player over the last 3 playoffs. Perhaps an opportunity for the LIFC, dont conflate the words elite and middling.

Not worth his cap hit? He has the 2nd most regular season points out of any player drafted his draft year or later. The only player who has more, Connor McDavid.

Fortunately for us, our GM knows more about hockey than the low information fan club.

Cooper? You mean the same Cooper that Marner fans always cite to argue he's a top forward, based on some positive interview comments by Cooper? Funny how those comments didn’t translate into action, considering Marner didn’t even make the first cut for Cooper’s team. Lol.

And? What benefit is it to make the first cut? If he is the last player picked, is he still on the team?
 

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