Player Discussion Mitch Marner

[The Masters]

Lol

https://x.com/i/web/status/1803057116220952876

 

[Notsince67]

Lot of discussion on moving on but I'm curious how many of you are confident that this will happen.
Question isn't should they? that has been beaten to death.

The question is a simple WILL IT HAPPEN?

I suggest setting up another poll that asks whether he should be traded so that the scholars will answer if he will be traded.

 

[mydnyte]

The Leafs also run their core for the majority of every PP and as many offensive faceoffs possible, though, that is also good coaching,

Oilers PP is the BEST most effective in the playoffs and Leafs PP was the WORST and least effective were both teams deployed the same strategy with their core.

Oilers core gets great results while Leaf core gets poor results .. I wonder where the problem could be.

Since doing that is good coaching (your words) and Leafs already fired their coach, perhaps its the CORE personnel of the Leafs that is the problem?

Perhaps Leafs management has it right and Marner has to go, because he is the least effective playoff performer and weakest link !!!

having a cannon on the point (that can hit the net) would be a good start in your search for a reason on why the PP results are SO different and until the last game they were shooting blanks too.

Marner has the BEST ppg in the playoffs, so, least effective is quite subjective, obviously we all expect more from him and want to see Memorial Cup Marner, but, playing for Hunter isnt the same as playing for Keefe now is it as they treat players very differently and have much different expectations/standards for their top players.

Iook, I wanted Marner traded before he signed his last contract, and dont care if he's dealt, but, only IF the Leafs get a huge haul for him.
If they cant get a package that would be considered a 'steal' then, i'd rather keep him and see how things go with a coach who has a clue on how to coach in the playoffs.

 

[rumman]

Hayes was talking how we can't sit Captain tinman and Wittle Mitchy because they are a "classy" organization.

That's not the right word, they are a COWARDLY organization.

Vegas traded away their most beloved player after he won the trophy for best at his position=WON A CUP
Raptors traded away their most beloved player who was always an all star and loved Toronto=WON A CHIP
The Panthers traded away their franchise's point leader who had been there for a decade=TWO FINALS IN A ROW

The Leafs treat their team like a daycare center where we can't be "mean" to any of the players (unless it's Hyman or Kadri, probably due to the fact they actually have heart/care). If the Leafs had balls they could 100% force Tavares and Marner out as nobody would stay in a place that 1.Doesn't want them 2.Is tanking their value.

And for the people wondering what the team would look like without them, we've already seen it; it's called the playoffs, Marner has 2 goals and 5 points in his last 12 games, Tavares has 1 goal and 4 points in his last 12 games. Enough is enough, these guys get paid McDavid money, they got that contract by taking every last penny they possibly could with no regard for the team, it's time for the team to put itself ahead of LOSERS who didn't perform.

Vegas, in their short time in the league have done what is needed to improve their team, their fans realize this and understand the team comes before any player, too bad Leaf Nation is full of fans with boy crushes on certain players and therefore care more about thise players than team success…….

Lol

https://x.com/i/web/status/1803057116220952876

Pretty funny, but not up to your usual video posts that are usually spot on. Keep them coming it’s appreciated by us who aren’t on social media……..

 

[ToneDog]

Noodles is turning into a f***ing tool and really starting to get on my nerves. what a JOKE he is. He wants to give a f***ing 8 yr deal to Marner on a one yr "show me" while completely disregarding the shit post season for the last 8 years

yea... GTFO Noodles

Noodles is a tool. He is the Larry Fine of Overdrive. Hayes is the Moe Howard and O-Dog is the Curley Howard.

 

[ToneDog]

having a cannon on the point (that can hit the net) would be a good start in your search for a reason on why the PP results are SO different and until the last game they were shooting blanks too.

Marner has the BEST ppg in the playoffs, so, least effective is quite subjective, obviously we all expect more from him and want to see Memorial Cup Marner, but, playing for Hunter isnt the same as playing for Keefe now is it as they treat players very differently and have much different expectations/standards for their top players.

Iook, I wanted Marner traded before he signed his last contract, and dont care if he's dealt, but, only IF the Leafs get a huge haul for him.
If they cant get a package that would be considered a 'steal' then, i'd rather keep him and see how things go with a coach who has a clue on how to coach in the playoffs.

We'd be lucky to get a good return. Nobody thinks they will get a steal. His ask pretty much squashes that IMO. You and the rest of Leafs nation might see Marner play out the year. That is fine but in no way do you resign him unless he lights it up in the playoffs.

 

[TMLBlueandWhite]

Fear of making the moves other organizations have made in order to find the working formula is stronger here.
It’s Leafs purgatory. We aren’t winning but if we trade someone we might lose.
Marner and his agent will fear them into signing if they can’t move/trade the longer it goes.

If they aren't winning they must necessarily already be losing.

So trading someone just means they might lose a bit more. Or they might win a few rounds in the playoffs. We won't know until they actually trade someone.

What we do know is what running it back again will result in though.

 

[rumman]

Ain't just Vegas. Lots of teams practice actual accountability, you know - the type where you actually follow through on what you say, and get rid of players who ain't with the program. It's logo on the front above all else.

The boy crush fans are very averse to this type of reasoning.

Yes, other teams have gotten rid of players they feel didn’t fit, usually well before it gets to this point, Boston and Philly come to mind…….

If they aren't winning they must necessarily already be losing.

So trading someone just means they might lose a bit more. Or they might win a few rounds in the playoffs. We won't know until they actually trade someone.

What we do know is what running it back again will result in though.

People hate change, they’re afraid of it in some cases, this us one of thise cases imo……

 

[rumman]

Does this sound like a style of hockey Marner would excel at????

 

[Mess]

I woke up this morning to an epiphany (an intuitive grasp of reality through something (such as an event) usually simple and striking.)

Question: What is the difference between Marner playing hardball and not waving his NMC and playing out the year, & then walking away as a UFA after next season?
Answer: Nothing as far as his LEAFS future goes beyond this current contract.

So with that thought enlightenment I have changed course 180 degrees and believe Treliving should extend Marner 100% at his earliest convenience after July 1st, to a term and rate at which Marner would agree and is reasonable. However with one special exception his new contract while on his financial terms comes with the caveat NO protection clauses included (either NTC or NMC). Those are optional and given out by the GM as bargaining chips, and often handed out to players you want to stay with the organization anyways, not ones you want to move on from.

So now I'll repeat the question now with a newly re-signed Marner.

Question: What is the difference between Marner playing hardball and not waving his NMC, playing out the year, & then getting traded away July 1st 2025 once his current deal expires?
Answer: Nothing as far as his LEAFS future goes beyond this current contract.

For Marner the outcome in both cases is identical ... Play out the year and then move on.

However for the Leafs a whole lot, because rather than having a pending walk-away UFA situation leaving the Leafs with nothing but recaputured cap space, now GM BT has essentially pulled off a sign and trade (on a 1 year delayed basis) instead of July 1st 2024 its now 2025 & and Leafs get as much as they can bargain in a succesful and competed trade. If Marner refuses to re-sign in TO without a NTC/NMC then he is right back to Step 1 above.

Now I'll ask the question one last time with the answer to the question included in the questiion itself.

Question: What is the difference between Leafs having traded Marner last year before his NMC kicked in, or him playing hardball and not waving his NMC, playing out the year, & then getting traded away July 1st 2025 once his current deal expires?
Answer: TIME (traded last year, this year or a year from now) is all about timing,

The sooner Marner gets on board the better for everyone.

 

[thewave]

Lol

https://x.com/i/web/status/1803057116220952876

Dangle isn't watchable

 

[Trapper]

Mitchell Tyberius Marner...literally forever and ever

View attachment 883620

Dreger (as usual) makes no sense. Do team with star players usually say at press conferences that everything is on the table and we’ll see?
Why wouldn’t he come right out and say it. There is only 1 guy left from the core. Marner. Why the subterfuge?

And if Marner wants to stay and retire a Leaf, why would he walk to UFA? What does that accomplish? Negotiating power? He’s already got the Leafs by the scrotum in terms of wringing every last dollar out of them.

 

[thewave]

Dreger (as usual) makes no sense. Do team with star players usually say at press conferences that everything is on the table and we’ll see?
Why wouldn’t he come right out and say it. There is only 1 guy left from the core. Marner. Why the subterfuge?

And if Marner wants to stay and retire a Leaf, why would he walk to UFA? What does that accomplish? Negotiating power? He’s already got the Leafs by the scrotum in terms of wringing every last dollar out of them.

Mitch is going to lose so much in endorsements if he isn't already. Nobody cares about him in the states either.

 

[Shanwhatplan]

Of course he elevates everyone he plays with, he IS the best 'offensive' player in the world.
When he has the puck on his stick in the o-zone he needs to be contained or double teamed, which creates room for everyone else on the ice. but on the backcheck, he is better than Drais (at least). but, not very committed to the defensive side of the game, he has always cheated for offense.

beating the Oilers is basically containing McDavid. games 1-3 he had 3 assists and lost them all.
When he doesnt dominate, the Oil dont usually win.

His +/- stats over the past 4 years are similar Matthews' stats, so either he's committed to playing both ways or else the puck is rarely in the dzone when he's on the ice.

More like when both he and Drai don't dominate. So are we saying the same thing about Matthews, Marner and Nylander?

 

[TMLBlueandWhite]

I woke up this morning to an epiphany (an intuitive grasp of reality through something (such as an event) usually simple and striking.)

Question: What is the difference between Marner playing hardball and not waving his NMC and playing out the year, & then walking away as a UFA after next season?
Answer: Nothing as far as his LEAFS future goes beyond this current contract.

So with that thought enlightenment I have changed course 180 degrees and believe Treliving should extend Marner 100% at his earliest convenience after July 1st, to a term and rate at which Marner would agree and is reasonable. However with one special exception his new contract while on his financial terms comes with the caveat NO protection clauses included (either NTC or NMC). Those are optional and given out by the GM as bargaining chips, and often handed out to players you want to stay with the organization anyways, not ones you want to move on from.

So now I'll repeat the question now with a newly re-signed Marner.

Question: What is the difference between Marner playing hardball and not waving his NMC, playing out the year, & then getting traded away July 1st 2025 once his current deal expires?
Answer: Nothing as far as his LEAFS future goes beyond this current contract.

For Marner the outcome in both cases is identical ... Play out the year and then move on.

However for the Leafs a whole lot, because rather than having a pending walk-away UFA situation leaving the Leafs with nothing but recaputured cap space, now GM BT has essentially pulled off a sign and trade (on a 1 year delayed basis) instead of July 1st 2024 its now 2025 & and Leafs get as much as they can bargain in a succesful and competed trade. If Marner refuses to re-sign in TO without a NTC/NMC then he is right back to Step 1 above.

Now I'll ask the question one last time with the answer to the question included in the questiion itself.

Question: What is the difference between Leafs having traded Marner last year before his NMC kicked in, or him playing hardball and not waving his NMC, playing out the year, & then getting traded away July 1st 2025 once his current deal expires?
Answer: TIME (traded last year, this year or a year from now) is all about timing,

The sooner Marner gets on board the better for everyone.

I don't think Marner would agree to a full NTC but maybe a modified one.

As far as his Leafs future goes there is no difference. As far as his earnings go there is. The Leafs are the only team that can give him an eighth year.

So your second scenario involving the sign and trade makes a lot of financial sense for Money Mitch as well.

 

[Shanwhatplan]

This is exactly one of my biggest concerns when it comes to Marner.

1) A stubborn Marner refuses to go despite Leafs ownership preferring to move on from him because they want to win playoff games and the Stanley Cup.
&
2) The other 31 NHL teams also with Stanley Cup aspirations, come to the same conclusion using logical reasoning, that its better to let the Leafs screw themselves and keep and then re-sign and vastly overpay him, because Casper the Friendly Ghost puts no fear into anyone come playoff time.

He is among the softest players in the game today and avoids all physical contract and plays a perimeter game avoiding traffic and contact, and where he has scored 11 playoff goals over 8 playoff years and 9 series. He basically averages 1 goal every playoff series which at his TOP 10 Cap hit makes him a huge determent & liability to the Leafs chances of winning, which in turn only benefits the opposition.

FWIW: Over the course of Marner's same playoff years there have been 136 other players that have scored 11 or more playoff goals ( NHL Stats )

When you look at that list a players and see ex leaf Patty Marleau has scored 12 goals during that time period (and has been retired for years) and Leafs gave away their 1st round pick to dump Marleau's contract for cap reasons, and with that pick that player became Seth Jarvis for the Canes and he has scored 13 playoff goals already compared to Mitch Marner's 11. A move done to re-sign Marner to his bloated current contract in hopes of bring the Leafs playoff success. Marner now the weakest goal scoring link of all 3 players involved.

When Marner/Agent Darren Ferris threatened Dubass with an offersheet > $10 mil as a RFA, the Leafs should have simply let him walk, let Marleau play out the last year of his deal, kept and drafted Seth Jarvis with their own pick and taken the 4 X 1st round pick compensation as they would be no futher away from the Cup & that was going to be the BEST !!! trade return a Marner transactions could return to Leafs, even today.

It would be interesting to know if, when you take everything into consideration, which did Shanahan do overall, help them or hurt them?

 

[The Masters]

Pretty funny, but not up to your usual video posts that are usually spot on. Keep them coming it’s appreciated by us who aren’t on social media……..

Dangle isn't watchable

makes me laugh

 

[Antropovsky]

Leafs lines that played over 100 minutes together:

5v5 Expected Goals:

- **#1**: Bertuzzi-Matthews-Domi with an xGF of 4.23 and an xGA of 2.2.
- A line with Marner on it doesn't appear until #4: Knies-Matthews-Marner with an xGF of 3.16 and an xGA of 2.22.
- Matthews' lines are 3 of the top 4, with his lowest ranking being #4 with Marner.
- Tavares' line is #3: Bertuzzi-Tavares-Nylander with an xGF of 3.37 and an xGA of 2.59.
- Tavares' line is #6: Comparatively, Bertuzzi-Tavares-Marner has an xGF of 2.44 and an xGA of 2.73.
- Knies-Matthews-Nylander is #2 with an xGF of 3.72 and an xGA of 2.29.
- Knies-Matthews-Marner is #4 with an xGF of 3.16 and an xGA of 2.23.
- All Matthews' lines have an xGA in the 2.2 range, whether with Nylander, Domi, or Marner as RW.
- Marner has a 2.59 xGA with Tavares, the highest xGA among any line with two core four forwards.

It seems Matthews defensively isn't benefitting as much from Marner as some people indicate. Additionally, stats suggest that Matthews doesn't benefit from Marner offensively either. This also shows that Tavares was more productive with Nylander than with Marner.


Comparing the two lines with Marner vs with Nylander:

- Bertuzzi-Tavares-Marner vs. Bertuzzi-Tavares-Nylander:
- xGF: 0.93 lower
- xGA: 0.14 higher

- Knies-Matthews-Marner vs. Knies-Matthews-Nylander:
- xGF: 0.56 lower
- xGA: 0.06 lower

 

[Mess]

I don't think Marner would agree to a full NTC but maybe a modified one.

As far as his Leafs future goes there is no difference. As far as his earnings go there is. The Leafs are the only team that can give him an eighth year.

So your second scenario involving the sign and trade makes a lot of financial sense for Money Mitch as well.

Mitch can't have his cake and eat it to ..

He can have his money if he and agent play their cards right to benefit him financially but it doesn't appear his career with Toronto is in the cards. ...

The Fourth Period's David Pagnotta has provided intriguing updates on Toronto Maple Leafs star Mitch Marner.​

​

June 17th, 2024 .. As the hockey world waits on a decision from the Leafs and Marner, rumours will continue to swirl about every scenario possible surrounding the perennial 90+ point forward.

The Leafs have not approached Marner about waiving his no-movement clause as of yet, but they have reportedly taken calls on him. According to The Fourth Period's Dave Pagnotta, the teams that are interested in the 27-year-old are the Vegas Golden Knights, Nashville Predators, Chicago Blackhawks and Dallas Stars.

Trade Watch:

 

[TMLBlueandWhite]

Mitch can't have his cake and eat it to ..

He can have his money if he and agent play their cards right to benefit him financially but it doesn't appear his career with Toronto is in the cards. ...

The Fourth Period's David Pagnotta has provided intriguing updates on Toronto Maple Leafs star Mitch Marner.​

​

June 17th, 2024 .. As the hockey world waits on a decision from the Leafs and Marner, rumours will continue to swirl about every scenario possible surrounding the perennial 90+ point forward.

The Leafs have not approached Marner about waiving his no-movement clause as of yet, but they have reportedly taken calls on him. According to The Fourth Period's Dave Pagnotta, the teams that are interested in the 27-year-old are the Vegas Golden Knights, Nashville Predators, Chicago Blackhawks and Dallas Stars.​

Every trade peoposal I make until the start of season will have him in it.

Unless he's traded first that is. I just want him off the team. The main reason being I think his immaturity is a cancer in the dressing room.

If there were ever a scenario where losing a 100 point player for nothing would be addition by subtraction this is it.

 

[PromisedLand]

Some of you need to relax. It’s radio, their job is to present all angles. If everyone on radio had the same opinion it would be boring. Also do you think Brad Treliving gives two shits about what Noodles wants to do? Or what us fans are posting on hf boards want? Why are you getting so worked up over a radio segment?

come on man. we are discussing hockey. If the point is to just chill and say how awesome everything is with rainbows then whats the point of HF Boards to begin with?

Losing shit and being a keyboard warrior is what HF is for. And I LOVE IT!

 

[TMLBlueandWhite]

come on man. we are discussing hockey. If the point is to just chill and say how awesome everything is with rainbows then whats the point of HF Boards to begin with?

Losing shit and being a keyboard warrior is what HF is for. And I LOVE IT!

Some of us get it.

 

[Arzak]

there was no stat padding play ever for the leafs.
...stat padding hockey would have the #1PP on for the full PP, it would have Matthews on the ice for every ENG chance, and the fact that he didnt have an ENG until the last 2 weeks of the season puts that into perspective how much they didnt try to stat pad.
They are an elite offensive group, and JT and Marner both had 'off' seasons, Marner likely because of his injury, and JT because he was misused on the PP (as he raked a lot of PP points).

Stat padding is the Oilers who run their core for the majority of every PP and as many offensive faceoffs possible, though, that is also good coaching, as, you want to score as many goals as you can.

 

[PromisedLand]

Hayes was talking how we can't sit Captain tinman and Wittle Mitchy because they are a "classy" organization.

That's not the right word, they are a COWARDLY organization.

Vegas traded away their most beloved player after he won the trophy for best at his position=WON A CUP
Raptors traded away their most beloved player who was always an all star and loved Toronto=WON A CHIP
The Panthers traded away their franchise's point leader who had been there for a decade=TWO FINALS IN A ROW

The Leafs treat their team like a daycare center where we can't be "mean" to any of the players (unless it's Hyman or Kadri, probably due to the fact they actually have heart/care). If the Leafs had balls they could 100% force Tavares and Marner out as nobody would stay in a place that 1.Doesn't want them 2.Is tanking their value.

And for the people wondering what the team would look like without them, we've already seen it; it's called the playoffs, Marner has 2 goals and 5 points in his last 12 games, Tavares has 1 goal and 4 points in his last 12 games. Enough is enough, these guys get paid McDavid money, they got that contract by taking every last penny they possibly could with no regard for the team, it's time for the team to put itself ahead of LOSERS who didn't perform.

THIS!

Actually This x infinity!

BINGO!

You get it man. If these players were performing in post season we wouldn't be having these discussions to begin with. Its just that simple!

Keep the fire and realistic expectations ALIVE! The fairytale is over. To quote ShanaCON "Time for Patience is OVER!"

 

[notDatsyuk]

Marner has the BEST ppg in the playoffs, so, least effective is quite subjective,

Marner was tied with two defencemen and a rookie for fifth best ppg, behind Bert and Domi and two guys who were playing sick or injured. Going by cap you could say JT was worse, but that's about it.