Toggle sidebar

Speculation: Marner blocked a trade to Carolina for Rantanen

  • Xenforo Cloud has upgraded us to version 2.3.6. Please report any issues you experience.
  • We are currently aware of "log in/security error" issues that are affecting some users. We apologize and ask for your patience as we try to get these issues fixed.
General Fanager said:
Well that's fair but its 2 different questions. What is he worth in a new deal and is that smart for the cap implications.

Also the fact that they tried to trade him for a guy who will likely demand the same or more in a new deal shows they don't think the same as you do.
Click to expand...

Who doesn't think the same as I do? I've been pushing for a Marner for Rantanen trade all season. The Leafs need to replace Marner for either a superstar goalscorer or depth. Rantanen is a 50 goal scorer who can pass and shows up in the playoffs. If you want to replace him with 1 player, he's one of the guys that you try.

Grate n Colorful Oz said:
There's a world of difference between Laine and Marner, and you're exagerating the optic. Laine has played at snail speed so far. Far from the same kind of performance Marner gives.

I also disagree about the 'worst team'. With their coming additions, like Demidov and Reinbacher, also with much cap space to make further additions, adding Marner would bring the Habs fairly close enough to what the Leafs are right now. Habs are up and coming and will only get better. They've had major progression in only 3 years, they're pacing to have progressed 30+ points in the standings in a very short rebuild, and that's without the additions of Demidov and Reinbacher, and young players who are just starting to have an impact like Hutson and Slaf.

Anyway, I don't see it as an impossibility. The money is there, the link with his agent is there, and it's a burgeoning roster.
Click to expand...

Yes and there's a world of difference between salaries and expectations from players like Laine and Marner. You're not getting Marner at Laine's cap hit, he makes more than that already - so obviously the expectations will be higher than Laine in addition to the cap hit.

Montreal is factually a worse team than Toronto right now. You can argue their future is brighter but that's just a guess. Every rebuilding team claims their future is bright, including Buffalo saying they were better than Toronto for many years. Not all prospects and rebuilding teams reach their full potential, in fact, most don't.
 
Last edited:
Antropovsky said:
Yea... awesome team guy and "leader'. Other players talk about want to leave money on the table to win. Meanwhile Marner, for the 2nd time, is doing every single thing he can to try and get overpaid. He's already been significantly overpaid and didn't live up to that contract.
Click to expand...
Remind me again who on the current team has left money on the table to win?

People seem OK with Vegas being all business. Why it it a problem for Marner to be the same. Especially when the team said they wanted to wait last summer and didn't extend him.

I respect players who show loyalty to an organization. With MM being a Toronto native, I would have hoped there it wouldn't end like this, but with the lack of post season success, there is a ton of pressure.
 
General Fanager said:
Point getting wingers who is good on the PK also. Im sure he has his flaws but the kid is elite.
Click to expand...
He's also elite at avoiding physical areas. Watch 4nations and see how much Mcdavid, Mackinnon and Crosby were around the crease every shift.

After the first practice, Mcdavid was asked about Marner and Reinhart and his comment about Marner was "the playmaker, plays high in the zone".

Then in the first game, Mcdavid and Marner were on camera having a heated discussion.

By game 3, the coaching staff made him the lowest 5v5 player in time. Tocchet said they made the.changes because the staff thought the team was too perimeter.

Marner is the softest players I've ever watched.
 
  • Like
Reactions: JKG33
Divine said:
Who doesn't think the same as I do? I've been pushing for a Marner for Rantanen trade all season. The Leafs need to replace Marner for either a superstar goalscorer or depth. Rantanen is a 50 goal scorer. If you want to replace him with 1 player, he's one of the guys that you try.



Yes and there's a world of difference between salaries and expectations from players like Laine and Marner. You're not getting Marner at Laine's cap hit, he makes more than that already - so obviously the expectations will be higher than Laine in addition to the cap hit.

Montreal is factually a worse team than Toronto right now. You can argue their future is brighter but that's just a guess. Every rebuilding team claims their future is bright, including Buffalo saying they were better than Toronto for many years.
Click to expand...
You said Marner is basically a high priced passer for Matthews and they would be just as good with Domi on his wing and that they should fill out the rest of the roster with the cap savings.

The Leafs dont feel the same since they tried to get another high priced guy.
 
General Fanager said:
You said Marner is basically a high priced passer for Matthews and they would be just as good with Domi on his wing and that they should fill out the rest of the roster with the cap savings.

The Leafs dont feel the same since they tried to get another high priced guy.
Click to expand...

Rantanen is a 50 goal scorer. Not just a passer like Marner. He can pass and score - which opens up space for Matthews or any other player.

They're completely different players. The Leafs need a player that's a scoring threat if they're paying 11M+. It's also the reason I think Nylander is a better fit for Matthews, his threat to score goals opens up space for Matthews.

Right now Matthews and Marner are paired together because it maximizes Marner. Marner is a playmaker and needs goalscorers to be effective. You put Marner on the third or fourth line and it effectively makes him ineffective for his cap hit. With a goalscorer, that doesn't happen.

Every playoff the strategy is always to double Matthews, block Marner's passing lanes and dare Marner to beat the goalie. That's when his muffin of a shot gets exposed. It's fine if you're making 3M but a huge waste of cap if you want to be one of the leagues top players and you effectively become useless when your linemates are covered.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: John Mandalorian
Divine said:
Who doesn't think the same as I do? I've been pushing for a Marner for Rantanen trade all season. The Leafs need to replace Marner for either a superstar goalscorer or depth. Rantanen is a 50 goal scorer. If you want to replace him with 1 player, he's one of the guys that you try.



Yes and there's a world of difference between salaries and expectations from players like Laine and Marner. You're not getting Marner at Laine's cap hit, he makes more than that already - so obviously the expectations will be higher.

Montreal is factually a worse team than Toronto right now. You can argue their future is brighter but that's just a guess. Every rebuilding team claims their future is bright, including Buffalo saying they were better than Toronto for many years.
Click to expand...

In 3 years time, Montreal has progressed more than Buffalo has in 15 years. Habs are pacing for around 85 points, up from 55 points three years ago. 55, 68, 76, 85. Buffalo doesn't and hasn't had a Demidov coming in either. Habs have already well surpassed Buffalo without the addition of Demidov. They'll probably surpass Detroit and Ottawa soon enough. Add Demidov and Marner to this present Habs squad and they are not far off. Habs major problem right now is they don't have a second line.

Anyway, I'm not really hoping for Marner, but you'd be wise to not discount the possibility. Hughes can be shrewd and convincing.
 
Antropovsky said:
He's also elite at avoiding physical areas. Watch 4nations and see how much Mcdavid, Mackinnon and Crosby were around the crease every shift.

After the first practice, Mcdavid was asked about Marner and Reinhart and his comment about Marner was "the playmaker, plays high in the zone".

Then in the first game, Mcdavid and Marner were on camera having a heated discussion.

By game 3, the coaching staff made him the lowest 5v5 player in time. Tocchet said they made the.changes because the staff thought the team was too perimeter.

Marner is the softest players I've ever watched.
Click to expand...
so what?

Remind me again, who is top 6 in scoring in the NHL? You don't have to play like a bulldog to have tremendous value to your team.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Rafafouille and Beukeboom Fan
Divine said:
Rantanen is a 50 goal scorer. Not just a passer like Marner. He can pass and score - which opens up space for Matthews or any other player.

They're completely different players. The Leafs need a player that's a scoring threat if they're paying 11M+. It's also the reason I think Nylander is a better fit for Matthews, his threat to score goals opens up space for Matthews.

Right now Matthews and Marner are paired together because it maximizes Marner. Marner is a playmaker and needs goalscorers to be effective. You put Marner on the third or fourth line and it effectively makes him useless. With a goalscorer, that doesn't happen.
Click to expand...
Playing with MacKinnon.

How he does without him remains to be seen.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Rafafouille
General Fanager said:
Its too late. If the plan for him is to sign elsewhere the best The Leafs can hope for is someone makes a small trade for his rights before July 1st so they can get the 8th year on his deal. Even then The Leafs won't get much value for him.
Click to expand...
Just FYI, but only the team that had his rights at end of the trade deadline can offer the 8th year. Trading for a guy after the season ends just enables the acquiring team to negotiate and sign prior to 7/1.
 
Beukeboom Fan said:
Just FYI, but only the team that had his rights at end of the trade deadline can offer the 8th year. Trading for a guy after the season ends just enables the acquiring team to negotiate and sign prior to 7/1.
Click to expand...

Yes but a sign and trade is still possible. That's what Calgary did with M. Tkachuk to get Florida the 8th year.

So the Leafs have 2 options if they're willing to walk from Marner and Marner is cooperating.

Trade his rights (Can sign him before UFA)
Sign and trade (Can sign him before UFA + Gets the 8th year)
 
frightenedinmatenum2 said:
It is a smart move by the Leafs because either he agrees to waive, and you upgrade to Rantanen, or he doesn't agree to waive and you know that he is a complete mark who you can lowball on the extension in the summer.

If I were him, I would have told them I'm not waiving, and in the summer I would not re-sign because of it. But he's a mark with Leafs PJs, and my skill level never rose above the outdoor rink at Jack Purcell, and even that is questionable, so none of the above would ever happen (Leafs trying to sign me, or Marner asserting himself over them taking his talent for granted.)

It also poisons the well, because no if the Leafs are out in round 1 and Rantanen is remotely decent in Dallas, it further turns the fans against Marner. He's never going to leaf because he is a mark, but if there was ever a chance that he would leaf, it seems like it being out there that he prevented the Leafs from dumping him for a huge upgrade would hurt his perception in Toronto with the fans.
Click to expand...
OR! When it comes to negotiating you can act like an adult and understand what the team is doing. Toronto gave him an opportunity to go to a great team and city that can re-sign him for 8 years and not 7 but he didn't waive and that was the end of it. No one upset, no feelings hurt. If that's all it takes to upset someone I would they rather not play here.
 
Grate n Colorful Oz said:
Habs will have much cap space, now and for some time. Big useless contracts coming off each year for the next 3 years, with strong prospects coming in to replace them.

This summer, we have Dvorak, Armia, Savard for 11.35mil coming off the books, plus 4.3mil in salary retention, plus the cap increase. We have Demidov, Reinbacher and probably Kapanen who will be added at discount prices of ELCs.

July 26, we have Price and Laine coming off the books. We're at 89mil full cap right now if we include Price's contracts. So that's 19.2 mil, plus the cap increase. Enough to carry Hutson's and Demidov's future increases, and more.

In July 27, there's Anderson and Gallagher coming off the books, for 12mil, plus the cap increase. Might also have Dach also coming off/getting traded (3.35m).

That's 49 mil without the cap growth, which itself is projected to be 25mil total in the next 3 years. It's almost impossible the Habs won't be major players at some point on the FA market, even after paying players like Demidov and Hutson.
Click to expand...
I didn’t question cap space. How much are you comfortable paying him.
 
I e been screaming buyer bewarel on Marner. He is soft and perimeter

If toronto let's him into the market. It will be interesting to see hoe much he falls in cap hit per year and the contract probably is 5 or less
 
General Fanager said:
so what?

Remind me again, who is top 6 in scoring in the NHL? You don't have to play like a bulldog to have tremendous value to your team.
Click to expand...
Mcdavid is a bulldog? Mackinnon is a bulldog? Crosby a bulldog?

Stats show and the anyone with eyes sees that Marner is futher from the net then most players. And when playoffs roll around Marner gets even further from the net. Stats show successful players are close to the net in the playoffs.

We have two videos 4 years apart of Marner stopping skating because he didn't want to be first on a puck in a corner...both in the playoffs. Both times the opponent got the puck and easily cleared the zone. When Marner should've been the first on the puck.

Think of the effect this has on his team and linemates. I've seen many times his linemates down low, looking to the slot for a pass and Marner is standing near the blueline. I've seen many times, his linemates screening the goalie for Marner but rarely ever is Marner doing the same for his linemates.
 
Could see Marner very emotional in his post game last night. Becoming more evident he might not be a Leaf next season.
 
Beukeboom Fan said:
Just FYI, but only the team that had his rights at end of the trade deadline can offer the 8th year. Trading for a guy after the season ends just enables the acquiring team to negotiate and sign prior to 7/1.
Click to expand...
Doesn't matter. Marner wants a short term contract like Matthews. He doesn't want 8.

Also...players that are taking these short term contracts are taking on risk that they will become injured and potentially lose millions in lost wages. I wonder how this effects a players willingness to engage physically. Marleau did this same strategy of short term contracts and surprise surprise was incredibly healthy throughout his entire career and surprise surprise had his captaincy stripped at one point for San Jose. Marleau also was Matthews and Marners "big brother" in Toronto.
 
General Fanager said:
Playing with MacKinnon.

How he does without him remains to be seen.
Click to expand...
Yet the post before your citing that Marner is top 6 in points as a reason wny Marner is elite? Marner played with 28 year old Tavares in 2019 and Hyman. Tavares was a two time hart nominee coming into Toronto.

Since 2019-2020 Hes been with the best even strength goal scorer the leagues maybe ever seen. Matthews also is a Hart and has been nominated for the Lindsay two out of the last three years. Winning one of those years.

Matthews over the past 2 seasons before this, was much much more productive without Marner on his line and the sample size is anout 50% of the time he was with Marner and 50% without. Meanwhile Marner is much more productive with Matthews.

Shouldn't Matthews be more productive with Marner?

Marner wasnt with Matthews for last years playoffs and he had a measily 1 g and 3 points in 7 games.

Marner went 18 consecutive playoff games without a goal. He also went around 100 consecutive games without a playoff goal...while playing on a line with Matthews, Nylander and Tavares! How is that possible? Any other 10million plus players with these achievements?
 
Last edited:
Why do they think swapping Rantanen for Marner will get the job done? Have they learned nothing in the past 8 years? :shakehead We're not here to sell jerseys.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Latest posts

Ad

Ad

Top Bottom