Speculation: Marner blocked a trade to Carolina for Rantanen

[Legion34]

Its too late. If the plan for him is to sign elsewhere the best The Leafs can hope for is someone makes a small trade for his rights before July 1st so they can get the 8th year on his deal. Even then The Leafs won't get much value for him.



He wants a fair deal, I have read nothing that shows he want anywhere near that.

I agree with this. But what I don’t understand is why 8th year rights are worth like a 4th,

But ratanen at the deadline is worth 1,1,3,3 stankoven?

Is one playoff run really worth that much more? Kinda nuts

 

[Legion34]

Carolina might've asked for it to be sign and trade only.

Yes but he has refused to consider any moves all year dating back to last summer.

Why not pick your spot in the summer. I totally get not wanting to move to Carolina in March. But he has had a year.

 

[Grate n Colorful Oz]

He wants to get out of the limelight, not into French tabloids on top of English.

Times have changed. We don't see much of that anymore. All the old complainers in the media are either gone, have been drown out or have fallen on deaf ears because their antics have become stale. Sure there's social media, but that's a league wide phenomenon. Very few read the JdM anymore. Press on the Habs are either corporate partners (TVA, RDS, Cogeco, TSN, SN) or state-run like CBC.

Indy media is mostly guys like Laraque and Nilan, hardly guys who'll look to bring down Marner.

He wouldn't be the center of attention either. Caufield, Suzuki, Hutson and soon Demidov will already take-up much media space already.

 

[Strangle]

His team just tried to made an attempt to trade him. They didn't say no when Carolina asked, and it went to Marner to shut it down. That tells me the Leafs saw more chance in Rantanen, and probably more value. I don't think players take this lightly.

They likely asked Marner to sign and he said no, then they asked him if he won’t sign would he waive and he said no.

Teams don’t take that you won’t sign lightly

 

[Grate n Colorful Oz]

Yes but he has refused to consider any moves all year dating back to last summer.

Why not pick your spot in the summer. I totally get not wanting to move to Carolina in March. But he has had a year.

Might just be that whatever options he was offered, wasn't what he was looking for, whether contractual, or city-wise.

 

[Strangle]

Last year, Matthews paced significantly more goals and points with Max Domi on his line in Marners place. Domi was producing like crazy with Matthews.

Marner is good... but he relies heavily on Matthews. There is a reason over the past 3 years Matthews won the Ted Lindsay once and was also top 3 last year...and chosen in top 3 over Mcdavid.

Teams win the Stanley cup without Marner every year

 

[General Fanager]

1.) you could make the argument that he could take less because he didn’t really live up to his contract.
Willy was a 40 goal 80pt plater for 7. Marner was a 30 goal 95 pt player for 11

Matthews won the hart 3 rockets and is a top 7 all time goal scorer by 27 despite injuries/covid years and starting at 19.

2.) the point is the lack of logic. If Marner wants to leave then why force the team to keep you? He could have picked his market in the summer got his 8 years, had time to settle in, start his family.

I get not wanting to just move to Carolina today with a pregnant wife.
Makes zero sense to start a family, risk injury, lose 12-13 million gauranteed and have a baby in a new country. Have to find doctors etc.

1. None of that matters. The other big 4 got paid and he expects the same. In fact I think its laughable to expect him to take a discount. Especially now they that tried to trade him and with the cap going up.

2. Maybe the plan for him and his wife was to stay in Toronto? Play well and do some damage in the playoffs and then he gets his contract and he gets to say in Toronto. But now they tried to trade him again? Maybe he is pissed and is like f those guys he will decide for himself in July. The Leafs have shown they do not want him so he will wait until July and let teams come to him. I am sure there will be no shortage of teams interested in him.

3. Agreed the family factor also played a role in him not wanting to leave.

 

[Legion34]

Might just be that whatever options he was offered, wasn't what he was looking for, whether contractual, or city-wise.

He reportedly has said he isn’t considering it. So there were no talks in the summer

 

[General Fanager]

Teams win the Stanley cup without Marner every year

True

But ZERO teams do it without a player like him.

 

[Legion34]

1. None of that matters. The other big 4 got paid and he expects the same. In fact I think its laughable to expect him to take a discount. Especially now they that tried to trade him and with the cap going up.

2. Maybe the plan for him and his wife was to stay in Toronto? Play well and do some damage in the playoffs and then he gets his contract and he gets to say in Toronto. But now they tried to trade him again? Maybe he is pissed and is like f those guys he will decide for himself in July. The Leafs have shown they do not want him so he will wait until July and let teams come to him. I am sure there will be no shortage of teams interested in him.

3. Agreed the family factor also played a role in him not wanting to leave.

Of course it’s all in the media but every report is that the leafs have made multiple offers and asking to open negotiations and he has refused.

 

[Divine]

Times have changed. We don't see much of that anymore. All the old complainers in the media are either gone, have been drown out or have fallen on deaf ears because their antics have become stale. Sure there's social media, but that's a league wide phenomenon. Very few read the JdM anymore. Press on the Habs are either corporate partners (TVA, RDS, Cogeco, TSN, SN) or state-run like CBC.

Indy media is mostly guys like Laraque and Nilan, hardly guys who'll look to bring down Marner.

I disagree. Even Laine is being criticized in Montreal and you got him for free. If you want Marner to give up term (8th year) and join a rebuilding team - he's going to want top dollar.

I think Marner has zero interest in Montreal but you can entice him by offering to make him the highest paid player in the league. You're not getting Marner at the same price Toronto would - that's not a realistic scenerio. There's many teams he can sign with for that price. If you want him to come to a Canadian market with the same negatives as Toronto but a worse team, you're paying him more than any other team (including Toronto) would be willing to offer him.

If he's not accepting a trade to Carolina, who's a consistent playoff team, why would he come to Montreal for anything other than top dollar?

 

[Divine]

True

But ZERO teams do it without a player like him.

Define 'a player like him'?

The Leafs have 3 players 'like him' already except they're all better goalscorers than him. Matthews and Marner do not work well together. We don't need a 13M passer to play with Matthews. Matthews stats didn't drop off when he played with Max Domi last year.

 

[Bruce Granville]

Teams win the Stanley cup without Marner every year

Or without any actual Leafs player for more than 5 decades…

 

[General Fanager]

I disagree. Even Laine is being criticized over Montreal and you got him for free. If you want Marner to give up term (8th year) and join a rebuilding team - he's going to want top dollar.

I think Marner has zero interest in Montreal but you can entice him by offering to make him the highest paid player in the league. You're not getting Marner at the same price Toronto would - that's not a realistic scenerio. There's many teams he can sign with for that price, if you want him to come to a Canadian market with the same negatives as Toronto but a worse team, you're paying him more than any other team (including Toronto) would be willing to offer him.

If he's not accepting a trade to Carolina, who's a consistent playoff team, why would he come to Montreal for anything other than top dollar?

As a Habs fan I agree with you on this one. I doubt he would come here. If he leaves Toronto my guess is Chicago or San Jose.

 

[Bruce Granville]

True

But ZERO teams do it without a player like him.

Who was a player like Marner in Florida?

 

[Divine]

As a Habs fan I agree with you on this one. I doubt he would come here. If he leaves Toronto my guess is Chicago or San Jose.

I still believe he'll come to any team if they're willing to overpay him though, including Montreal. If someone was crazy enough to throw 15-16M x 7 at him, I can't see him saying no to anyone.

I think many on here would argue (and have argued for many years) that Carolina is a better playoff team than Toronto. Marner wasn't even willing to consider Carolina for a single playoff run before becoming a UFA. So clearly 'winning' isn't his priority. It's either he wants to stay in Toronto or money. I don't think Toronto should re-sign him regardless of price, unless he wants a discount on his current deal which he'll never do - so it's money.

 

[General Fanager]

Define 'a player like him'?

The Leafs have 3 players 'like him' already except they're all better goalscorers than him. Matthews and Marner do not work well together. We don't need a 13M passer to play with Matthews. Matthews stats didn't drop off when he played with Max Domi last year.

Point getting wingers who is good on the PK also. Im sure he has his flaws but the kid is elite.

 

[Divine]

Point getting wingers who is good on the PK also. Im sure he has his flaws but the kid is elite.

Yeah, he's elite for someone who doesn't have a player like that. The Leafs have Nylander, Matthews and Tavares. They need another goalscorer which is where he lacks.

He essentially becomes a 13M passer for Matthews - that's a waste of cap space. Matthews was scoring at the same pace with Max Domi who makes under 4M and they can spend that remaining 10M filling in the holes in the rest of the lineup.

 

[General Fanager]

I still believe he'll come to any team if they're willing to overpay him though, including Montreal. If someone was crazy enough to throw 15-16M x 7 at him, I can't see him saying no to anyone.

I think many on here would argue (and have argued for many years) that Carolina is a better playoff team than Toronto. Marner wasn't even willing to consider Carolina for a single playoff run before becoming a UFA. So clearly 'winning' isn't his priority. It's either he wants to stay in Toronto or money. I don't think Toronto should re-sign him regardless of price, unless he wants a discount on his current deal which he'll never do - so it's money.

I mean that's probably true about every guy in the league. If multiple teams are into him on July 1st then he can think about fit and future. San Jose and Chicago are terrible now but with tons of cap space and the young guys they have they will be real good soon.

 

[Divine]

I mean that's probably true about every guy in the league. If multiple teams are into him on July 1st then he can think about fit and future. San Jose and Chicago are terrible now but with tons of cap space and the young guys they have they will be real good soon.

I don't think every player in the league would go to a rebuilding team for money. Certain players would. Crosby for example won't even leave the Penguins for more money or a chance of winning on a contender.

Who knows what Marner's thinking though. What we do know is he was not willing to go to Carolina for a single playoff run despite being a consistent playoff team.

 

[Grate n Colorful Oz]

I disagree. Even Laine is being criticized over Montreal and you got him for free. If you want Marner to give up term (8th year) and join a rebuilding team - he's going to want top dollar.

I think Marner has zero interest in Montreal but you can entice him by offering to make him the highest paid player in the league. You're not getting Marner at the same price Toronto would - that's not a realistic scenerio. There's many teams he can sign with for that price, if you want him to come to a Canadian market with the same negatives as Toronto but a worse team, you're paying him more than any other team (including Toronto) would be willing to offer him.

If he's not accepting a trade to Carolina, who's a consistent playoff team, why would he come to Montreal for anything other than top dollar?

There's a world of difference between Laine and Marner, and you're exagerating the optic. Laine has played at snail speed so far. Far from the same kind of performance Marner gives.

I also disagree about the 'worst team'. With their coming additions, like Demidov and Reinbacher, also with much cap space to make further additions, adding Marner would bring the Habs fairly close enough to what the Leafs are right now. Habs are up and coming and will only get better. They've had major progression in only 3 years, they're pacing to have progressed 30+ points in the standings in a very short rebuild, and that's without the additions of Demidov and Reinbacher, and young players who are just starting to have an impact like Hutson and Slaf.

Anyway, I don't see it as an impossibility. The money is there, the link with his agent is there, and it's a burgeoning roster.

 

[General Fanager]

Yeah, he's elite for someone who doesn't have a player like that. The Leafs have Nylander, Matthews and Tavares. They need another goalscorer which is where he lacks.

He essentially becomes a 13M passer for Matthews - that's a waste of cap space. Matthews was scoring at the same pace with Max Domi who makes under 4M and they can spend that remaining 10M filling in the holes in the rest of the lineup.

Well that's fair but its 2 different questions. What is he worth in a new deal and is that smart for the cap implications.

Also the fact that they tried to trade him for a guy who will likely demand the same or more in a new deal shows they don't think the same as you do.

 

[Skolman]

I think the writing is on the wall, the Leafs are going to overpay big time for Marner summer.

12.5+ mil per.

 

[Grate n Colorful Oz]

As a Habs fan I agree with you on this one. I doubt he would come here. If he leaves Toronto my guess is Chicago or San Jose.

Might be, but who knows. Weirder things have happened. Never thought Erik Cole would sign in Montreal.

 

[General Fanager]

I think the writing is on the wall, the Leafs are going to overpay big time for Marner summer.

12.5+ mil per.

I think The Leafs would do backflips down the street if they got him at 12.5 on a long term deal.