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Value of: Marner as a UFA

FriendlyGhost92 said:
... Or it's because he didn't want to go to Carolina.
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Which is a possibility, but again, unless you have Marner on speed dial, your guess is as good as the rest of ours

And LeBrun has already mentioned Carolina will definitely be taking another shot at Marner this off-season. If they got a "No, I don't want to play in Carolina" from the Marner camp at the deadline, they wouldn't be taking that second shot.
 
shortfuze said:
what does him not waiving for carolina 2 weeks ago have to do with the off season? no one knows for sure but im assuming its because he didnt want to do anything mid season. not really that hard to understand.
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Yes I think understands, MM wants to see what teams offer him, so he can then go back to Toronto and get the most money out of them.
 
Blueline Bomber said:
Which is a possibility, but again, unless you have Marner on speed dial, your guess is as good as the rest of ours

And LeBrun has already mentioned Carolina will definitely be taking another shot at Marner this off-season. If they got a "No, I don't want to play in Carolina" from the Marner camp at the deadline, they wouldn't be taking that second shot.
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I'm sure they will. This is the same management that got criticized by their own coach for not finding out if Mikko wanted to be there before trading for him.
 
FriendlyGhost92 said:
I'm sure they will. This is the same management that got criticized by their own coach for not finding out if Mikko wanted to be there before trading for him.
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Yeah, you're going to have to dig into that whole saga yourself if you're interested in finding out the truth. I'm sure just skimming headlines works if you wish to remain ignorant.
 
FriendlyGhost92 said:
Weird. I figured the team's own coach would be a pretty good source...
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Here's the timeline, based on comments from Friedman, Tulsky and Rantanen's agents:

- During the course of contract negotiations, the Avs approached Rantanen's camp about the possibility of a trade and asked if he'd be willing to re-sign in Carolina.
- Rantanen's camp thought this was a negotiation tactic by the Avs and basically "called the bluff" and said "Sure, we'll re-sign."
- The Avs pass this on to Tulsky and give him permission to talk to Rantanen's camp about working out a deal
- Rantanen's camp tells Tulsky their focus is getting a deal done with Colorado.
- Tulsky weighs his options, decides that the opportunity to take a swing at a star player like that is one they shouldn't pass up, and makes the trade, knowing that even if they couldn't get him to resign, they could flip him at the deadline to recoup some assets.
- Rantanen's camp is apparently shocked by the trade, since again, they didn't take the Avalanche's ask as seriously as Colorado and Carolina did.
- Rantanen struggles in Carolina, tells Rod after 4 Nations that there's only four teams that he'll play for and Carolina isn't one of them.
- Trade happens
 
FriendlyGhost92 said:
I like how this ends with what I said...
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See, you assume Rantanen never wanted to play in Carolina and thus they never should have traded for him. That goes against what everyone involved in the situation has said, including Rantanen himself. It was only after the 4 Nations that he decided Carolina wasn't a good fit and asked for a trade.

Again, you only read the headlines and came away with a false idea.
 
Blueline Bomber said:
See, you assume Rantanen never wanted to play in Carolina and thus they never should have traded for him. That goes against what everyone involved in the situation has said, including Rantanen himself. It was only after the 4 Nations that he decided Carolina wasn't a good fit and asked for a trade.

Again, you only read the headlines and came away with a false idea.
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"I decided I wasn't a good fit after 6 games" screams a certain message, but you're apparently deaf.
 
FriendlyGhost92 said:
"I decided I wasn't a good fit after 6 games" screams a certain message, but you're apparently deaf.
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That every player isn't a fit for every system? I don't think that's the revolutionary idea you're making it out to be. Regardless, none of this has to do with Marner, so we should probably stay on topic.
 
Blueline Bomber said:
That every player isn't a fit for every system? I don't think that's the revolutionary idea you're making it out to be. Regardless, none of this has to do with Marner, so we should probably stay on topic.
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If you've decided after six games that you don't belong on a team and subsequently notify them that there's only 4 teams you do want to be on, it means you didn't want to be there in the first place.

Pretending this isn't the case is twisting the narrative so you don't have to cope with the fact that the guy didn't want to be there.

... Kinda like pretending Marner not waiving his NMC doesn't mean he doesn't want to be in Carolina either.
 
FriendlyGhost92 said:
You realize I didn't dispute either of your precious facts, right? Feel free to point out where I did.

Since you wont be able to, just fast forward to addressing Elliotte's report that Marner wouldn't waive his NMC for Carolina two weeks ago.
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What does him declining to waive his NMC have anything to do with the statement of 'No contending team has the cap to offer Marner a big contract'?

Canes are a contending team and have the cap space. Marner might not sign with them but that doesn't change those two things.
 
GIN ANTONIC said:
What does him declining to waive his NMC have anything to do with the statement of 'No contending team has the cap to offer Marner a big contract'?

Canes are a contending team and have the cap space. Marner might not sign with them but that doesn't change those two things.
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I didn't contest that contending teams can offer him a contract, either.

You seem to struggle with addressing what I actually said...
 
FriendlyGhost92 said:
If you've decided after six games that you don't belong on a team and subsequently notify them that there's only 4 teams you do want to be on, it means you didn't want to be there in the first place.

Pretending this isn't the case is twisting the narrative so you don't have to cope with the fact that the guy didn't want to be there.
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Rantanen says otherwise and takes offense to the thought that he never wanted to be there:

"Obviously, it was a big shock to leave Colorado, but I went [to Carolina] with an open mind and tried my best on the ice. When I put the jersey on there, I tried my best and just decided just a little bit before the Deadline that Carolina would probably get a better return for me if I would do a sign and trade; that it would be better for their team rather than me being a rental and going somewhere to play. So that was the decision.

I want to make it clear that I was open-minded in Carolina and really thought about staying there."

But I'm sure you know better than the player, his agent, and literally everyone involved in the deal how it actually went down
 
Blueline Bomber said:
Rantanen says otherwise and takes offense to the thought that he never wanted to be there:

"Obviously, it was a big shock to leave Colorado, but I went [to Carolina] with an open mind and tried my best on the ice. When I put the jersey on there, I tried my best and just decided just a little bit before the Deadline that Carolina would probably get a better return for me if I would do a sign and trade; that it would be better for their team rather than me being a rental and going somewhere to play. So that was the decision.

I want to make it clear that I was open-minded in Carolina and really thought about staying there."

But I'm sure you know better than the player, his agent, and literally everyone involved in the deal how it actually went down
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The way it went down says a lot about the way it went down. :dunno:
 
Blueline Bomber said:
Agreed. So why are you arguing against it?
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I'm not. I'm just not looking at the situation with blinders on like you are. :thumbu:

Tell me more about how excited Rantanen was to have a long career in Carolina and changed his mind in 6 games, and then reportedly took less money to get out.

Screams that he never wanted to be there. You just don't want to hear it. Kinda like you don't want to hear that Marner declining to waive his NMC most likely just means he doesn't want to be in Carolina.
 
FriendlyGhost92 said:
I didn't contest that contending teams can offer him a contract, either.

You seem to struggle with addressing what I actually said...
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Your insertion of the NMC not being waived wasn't relevant. The conversation was about whether or not a contending team had cap space for Marner. Your Freidman post had nothing to do with that at all and you're now inserting a narrative that Marner would never come to Carolina which you absolutely don't know. We only know he didn't waive his NMC on or near deadline day while his team is making a push to win their division. It's completely unique situation and while you may want to infer certain things from it you definitely can't be sure of it and you're also glossing over a ton of context and nuance.
 
GIN ANTONIC said:
Your insertion of the NMC not being waived wasn't relevant. The conversation was about whether or not a contending team had cap space for Marner. Your Freidman post had nothing to do with that at all and you're now inserting a narrative that Marner would never come to Carolina which you absolutely don't know. We only know he didn't waive his NMC on or near deadline day while his team is making a push to win their division. It's completely unique situation and while you may want to infer certain things from it you definitely can't be sure of it and you're also glossing over a ton of context and nuance.
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OK bud. I'm sorry I pissed in your cheerios by pointing out that the suggested contender to pitch Marner a big contract was already told no by him. :laugh:
 
FriendlyGhost92 said:
I'm not. I'm just not looking at the situation with blinders on like you are. :thumbu:

Tell me more about how excited Rantanen was to have a long career in Carolina and changed his mind in 6 games, and then reportedly took less money to get out.
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Nice strawman. No one said Rantanen was excited to be in Carolina. He was obviously shocked by the trade, but gave Carolina a chance. Which is why Tulsky traded for him, for that chance.

Which, again, comes directly from Rantanen, his agent and Tulsky. Your belief that you know better than the people actually involved just terms of arrogance.
 
Blueline Bomber said:
Nice strawman. No one said Rantanen was excited to be in Carolina. He was obviously shocked by the trade, but gave Carolina a chance. Which is why Tulsky traded for him, for that chance.

Which, again, comes directly from Rantanen, his agent and Tulsky. Your belief that you know better than the people actually involved just terms of arrogance.
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He gave it a chance for 6 whole games. You struggle with grasping that this is not really a chance lmao.
 
FriendlyGhost92 said:
OK bud. I'm sorry I pissed in your cheerios by pointing out that the suggested contender to pitch Marner a big contract was already told no by him. :laugh:
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I'm not mad at all. You're just posting irrelevant information to the conversation. Everyone knows he didn't waive his NMC. It may be an indication that he wouldn't sign in Carolina in the offseason or it may just be he wants to finish his season with Toronto because his preference is to stay there and get 8 years but we don't know.

If for whatever reason an extension between him and the Leafs don't work out I have a feeling him or any other player might be 'more open' to signing a $100m deal with a different team even if they didn't accept a trade there earlier. I mean the exact same situation basically happened with Kadri and the Flames. When he was on the Leafs he didn't waive his no trade to go there but it wasn't because he refused to play in Calgary for eternity, it just wasn't what he wanted at that time. Fast forward and he signed a 7 year deal there.

Sorry if you aren't able to comprehend these things.
 
GIN ANTONIC said:
I'm not mad at all. You're just posting irrelevant information to the conversation. Everyone knows he didn't waive his NMC. It may be an indication that he wouldn't sign in Carolina in the offseason or it may just be he wants to finish his season with Toronto because his preference is to stay there and get 8 years but we don't know.

If for whatever reason an extension between him and the Leafs don't work out I have a feeling him or any other player might be 'more open' to signing a $100m deal with a different team even if they didn't accept a trade there earlier. I mean the exact same situation basically happened with Kadri and the Flames. When he was on the Leafs he didn't waive his no trade to go there but it wasn't because he refused to play in Calgary for eternity, it just wasn't what he wanted at that time. Fast forward and he signed a 7 year deal there.

Sorry if you aren't able to comprehend these things.
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No. I'm posting information that makes you, as a Carolina fan, uncomfortable.

Because it'd really hurt to find out that not one, but two stars you went after, have no interest in playing for your team. :dunno:
 
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