Prospect Info: Marlies, Cyclones, and Prospect Discussion

  • Work is still on-going to rebuild the site styling and features. Please report any issues you may experience so we can look into it. Click Here for Updates
Flushing a half dozen picks on small, non elite defenesmen who can't be promoted to the NHL would seem like the biggest disadvantage.
None of those picks were "flushed". Most draft picks (especially low ones) don't become NHLers, regardless of their profile, but they had as much chance as the big fridges we drafted previously. In fact, probably more, as it's easier to grow into a bigger body, than it is to develop NHL skills at that point of development. Not to mention adapting the size disadvantage you've always had to overcome to the next level vs. adapting to suddenly losing a size advantage you've always had helping you.

Every defenseman outside of the lottery is non-elite when they're drafted. That doesn't mean anything. We drafted a wide variety of defenseman of different sizes and types, and they all had a promotion pathway to the NHL. There are 213 defensemen that have played more than 20 games in the NHL this year. They range all the way from 5'9" to 6'8". And there are more 5'9"s than 6'8"s. More 5'10"s than 6'7"s. More 5'11"s than 6'6"s. Niemela is 6'0", and there are more defenseman 6'0" or below than above 6'3". Should we disregard all prospects above 6'3" as well?

Your draft picks not all hitting and becoming NHLers is not a disadvantage. That is normal. A disadvantage would have been avoiding somebody like Sandin, and losing out on years of surplus value and a 1st round pick+ return, as a result of putting arbitrary limitations on ourselves. A disadvantage would be dismissing a good prospect in Niemela because he doesn't fit a certain meaningless profile.
 
  • Like
Reactions: The Iceman
Probably didn’t need to draft Hollowell after having Sandin and Niemela already but even still, he’s already played more games than all of Hunter’s fridges ever will combined.

Imo after the first 50 picks or so your job is to get someone that can play top4/top6 with the Marlies in their D+2 and trust that your development system can turn them into a viable footsoldier. If they end up a AAAA tweener so be it, but drafting guys that can’t even make it to the AHL is inexcusable.
Small quibble, but Keaton Middleton would hold that distinction with 26 games, 23 of them this year. Also fits that second paragraph to a T, wearing a letter long term in the A with the Avalanche organization.
 
The streak is still going, no?
Yes sorry. He got an assist I missed a couple of games back. Its not really much of a thing now because in spite of the streak he isn't a top producer on the team anymore. It would be interesting to know what is going on. Hope he finds his way back in time for the playoffs.
 
Yes sorry. He got an assist I missed a couple of games back. Its not really much of a thing now because in spite of the streak he isn't a top producer on the team anymore. It would be interesting to know what is going on. Hope he finds his way back in time for the playoffs.

He missed some time here and there, he might be hurt
 
Going by Wickenheiser's comments in that recent Athletic article, perhaps she's searching for an excuse for a Leafs brass biased against small defenders (which is their prerogative!), but it sounds like the Leafs simply haven't been impressed by Niemela's off-ice work. I was pretty baffled by his lack of exhibition gametime this year, but it's on him if he's not doing the requisite work. I've generally thought Niemela's looked 'good' in the few Marlies games I've caught, but certainly not 'exceptional'.

I know we need/want Niemela and Hirvonen to turn out, but:
a) worth keeping in mind they were only late 2nd/early 3rd round picks at 59 and 64. Draft pick value drops off steeply from about the mid-1st round. Not using that as an excuse, but a reality check.
b) On that note, glancing at that 2020 draft, I was struck by how poor most of the picks after them are looking: Elite Prospects - NHL Entry Draft 2020 Could've taken Will Cuylle instead of Hirvonen... after that, need to drop to 83 for Alex Laferriere for an NHL regular. Otherwise a bit of prospect wasteland

The likes of Kleven, Faber (!), or Lohrei would've been available at 44 if we hadn't traded down for 59 and 64, but that's a deeper counterfactual 🙂 (took a quick glance and doesn't look like those guys were that highly ranked at the time)

---

Shame that Tverberg's production has plummeted. 2 goals and 6 assists in 28 games (23 point 82 game pace*) after putting up a pretty impressive 9 goals and 23 assists in 46 games (57 point pace) last year. Sounds like he's had some injury issues, so let's see how the last year of his ELC goes next year, but was hoping he'd turn out to be a diamond in the rough (keeping in perspective that he was a late 7th rounder...)

*Yeah, yeah, I know they don't play 82 games in the AHL...

I wonder if Tree will try to get his own guys in vs hold outs from the old regime like Wickenheiser
 
So getting a bunch of yes-people working for him?

Hopefully, that is the furthest thing from the truth.

All Leafs need is an entourage of yes-sirs who have failed at every stop.

A lot of the hold outs don't exactly have a proven track record with player development or anything.

Hannu Toivonen for example seems to have been a decent pick up for the organization, Ahkyamatov and Hildeby are promising but how much is it the coaching vs natural ability? Huge discussion to be had.
 
A lot of the hold outs don't exactly have a proven track record with player development or anything.

Hannu Toivonen for example seems to have been a decent pick up for the organization, Ahkyamatov and Hildeby are promising but how much is it the coaching vs natural ability? Huge discussion to be had.
Leafs record of achievement is not impressive.

Remember when it was decades from the Cup?
Now it is decades from 2 series wins.

They need some draft picks, outside the top 60, to work out.
Knies and ? Grebenkin/Minten

1738103170452.png
 
Last edited:
I wonder if Tree will try to get his own guys in vs hold outs from the old regime like Wickenheiser
He didn't do much coming in and Im not sure if it was his own timidity or more following Shanny's lead. The "chemistry and unity" Pelley commented on was to me, Treliving coming in and being in step with the Prez's wishes. Keefe retained, core players kept into the NT/NM zone and none of the infrastructure Dubas assembled let go. Remember Shanahan is the old regime too.

Now if Shanny goes this summer and Treliving somehow retains his job we could see some movement but after a couple of years I wouldn't assume it for sure. I'm sure he finds some of the people he inherited reliable and considers them his team now. Scouting, who knows? Dubas crew hasn't done much more than Hunter and while Kyle seems to have prioritized skill its the scouts who put the list together so the players taken should be very close to legit BPA regardless of size. The scouts don't have a lot to brag about but not a lot of top 50 picks either.
 
He didn't do much coming in and Im not sure if it was his own timidity or more following Shanny's lead. The "chemistry and unity" Pelley commented on was to me, Treliving coming in and being in step with the Prez's wishes. Keefe retained, core players kept into the NT/NM zone and none of the infrastructure Dubas assembled let go. Remember Shanahan is the old regime too.

Now if Shanny goes this summer and Treliving somehow retains his job we could see some movement but after a couple of years I wouldn't assume it for sure. I'm sure he finds some of the people he inherited reliable and considers them his team now. Scouting, who knows? Dubas crew hasn't done much more than Hunter and while Kyle seems to have prioritized skill its the scouts who put the list together so the players taken should be very close to legit BPA regardless of size. The scouts don't have a lot to brag about but not a lot of top 50 picks either.

I think Shanny is likely gone this summer, Tree is going to get 1 maybe 2 years to do something.
 

Ad

Upcoming events

Ad