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Value of: Marcus Pettersson.

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OtherThingsILike said:
Koivunen is a boom-or-bust player, and that's due to his skating. If he brings his skating up enough, his ceiling is a top-line forward. He has all the other relevant skills.
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Jake Guentzel is the best winger Sidney Crosby ever played with (not including 20 games of Marian Hossa). He's the best homegrown product the Penguins have pumped out in 20 years.

Jake is a bonified ppg 1LW and has continued to prove that with 2 other teams. Crazy tenacity, hockey IQ, plays bigger than his size, and reads the game about as fast as a Crosby or Kucherov.

Koivunen is the most valuable piece in the Guentzel trade (if you can even use that word here, valuable). Your description of Koivunen is not the return you expect for a player of Guentzel's caliber.
 
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Zbynek said:
Jake Guentzel is the best winger Sidney Crosby ever played with (not including 20 games of Marian Hossa). He's the best homegrown product the Penguins have pumped out in 20 years.

Jake is a bonified ppg 1LW and has continued to prove that with 2 other teams. Crazy tenacity, hockey IQ, plays bigger than his size, and reads the game about as fast as a Crosby or Kucherov.

Koivunen is the most valuable piece in the Guentzel trade (if you can even use that word here, valuable). Your description of Koivunen is not the return you expect for a player of Guentzel's caliber.
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How does this have anything to do with Koivunen's upside? You said he had no better than bottom-6 upside and then shifted it to "he's not good enough to be the centerpiece of a Guentzel trade".

The Penguins went for quantity over quality in the Guentzel trade. Everyone knows that. Beating the dead horse about it doesn't change anything.
 
Empoleon8771 said:
Bunting wasn't a major part of the value in that deal, though. I totally believe Dubas would take back a NHL player to "stay competitive" in a deal, but taking back Hoglander as a big chip doesn't seem to line up with that. If Hoglander would be in the deal, I'd still expect a 2nd and a prospect to be included on top of him.

I could see something like Hoglander, Mynio and a 2nd for Pettersson and Beauvillier making some sense, and I don't really mind that deal on paper.
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The "value" on this probably isn't too far off of what i'd expect it to cost for Pettersson, given the dearth of other steady, reliable Top-4D likely to be "on the market" this year. I actually like Mynio's trajectory and would push for that be maybe be a different guy...but realistically, he's still probably a B prospect at best and likely quite far away (if ever). So on "value", that's not unreasonable.

And Hoglander's value is tough to assess. He's such a weird player...in that he'll probably get you ~15G+ and ~35pts whether he's playing on your top line or your 4th line with scrubs. Like a Brandon Sutter...or Kasperi Kapanen type. Decent production "floor" but a very low "ceiling". Even the contract he just signed is ambiguous. It's either decent value in a rising cap world, for a very "self-sufficient 35pt - goal skewed" sort of 3rd/4th line player. Or it's too much for a "tweener". But i can also see where that may...or may not appeal to the Penguins, depending on what Dubas prioritizes.



Also, as mentioned, the Canucks really have no want or need for Beauvillier back. They just finished getting rid of him. Even at a lower salary, he really wasn't a Tocchet player, and the Canucks are pretty full up on "filler" utility players better than Beauvillier. Even moving Hoglander, they're probably fine...but even if not, i'd reckon they'd rather just go out and backfill that spot with a separate deal for someone who fits a "role" better.
 
Voodoo Glow Skulls said:
Just trying to send back a maybe.

Another prospect, that's ok with me.

Within reason.
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I still can't see it from Vancouver. I could see Dubas being dumb enough to target Garland, but that's a super rich price for Vancouver to pay.

I think any of these trades are a reasonable expectation for a Pettersson to Vancouver trade:

1. Desharnais, Pettersson and a 2025 2nd for Pettersson at 50%
2. Hoglander, Myrio and a 2025 2nd for Pettersson at 50%
3. Desharnais, Myrio and a 2025 1st for Pettersson at 50%
 
Empoleon8771 said:
I still can't see it from Vancouver. I could see Dubas being dumb enough to target Garland, but that's a super rich price for Vancouver to pay.

I think any of these trades are a reasonable expectation for a Pettersson to Vancouver trade:

1. Desharnais, Pettersson and a 2025 2nd for Pettersson at 50%
2. Hoglander, Myrio and a 2025 2nd for Pettersson at 50%
3. Desharnais, Myrio and a 2025 1st for Pettersson at 50%
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I figured Garland would be on the chopping block with Lettermaki coming up.

That and his salary would allow Vancouver to acquire Petterson without gutting the prospect pool.
 
Voodoo Glow Skulls said:
I figured Garland would be on the chopping block with Lettermaki coming up.

That and his salary would allow Vancouver to acquire Petterson without gutting the prospect pool.
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Garland and Lekkerimaki don't actually fill particularly similar roles tbh.


Lekky is...next Boeser. Maybe?

Garland is just a tiny angry little dude who has become one of the "engines" of this Canucks team. And in particular, because he can produce top level offense from the 3rd line and without a lot of prime 1st Unit PP time or anything. He plays extremely hard, he's very much a Tocchet Player, and his ability to drive one of the best 3rd lines in hockey is such a wildcard, it's easily worth his salary.
 
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I think Chiarot is a good comparable. He brought back a late 1st + 4th. Very reasonable ask for Pettersson. And I think there's several ways to get to that value as well.

1st+4th for Petts @ 50%
2nd+Pettersson for Pettersson @50% using Vancouver as the example.
Cap dump + 1st for Pettersson (no retention)
2nd+high end prospect for Pettersson

I do think there's some flexibility going both ways if a team intends to extend him. Say Vancouver again, if the intent was to bring him on and resign him, I'd be looking at something like Pettersson+1st. If Dubas rejects discussing extensions and retaining, it may be more like something around a 2nd+4th.

I imagine Pettersson will be a hot commodity for a playoff team come the TDL so I could also see a team paying a bit more to get him early.
 
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1st + Hoglander for MP28 at 50% is solid for both teams IMO.

Gives Vancouver the cap to re-sign MP28, gives PIT a younger forward they can then flip for something in a year or two.
 
Pettersson to Vancouver makes a lot of sense but he's a guy pretty much any playoff team would be interested its going to depend on a bidding war. Last year the Canucks got Zadorov early and for cheap because Calgary wanted to move him now and no one else was willing to retain the entire salary, but that's not going to be the case for Pittsburgh. They can hang onto him till they feel they have their favourite offer then pull the trigger.

As a Canucks fan I can't know what management is thinking but I really don't think they're going to move D Elias Pettersson here. If the cost is a 1st round pick or a 2nd + Pettersson then you do the first easily. Not certain yet if he'll pan out at the NHL level but at age 20 Elias is showing his value in his first AHL season and trending towards being a similar play to Marcus. One's basically a pure rental, the other is just starting his ELC. If you're a team looking at an extended window and not just loading up for one big last push the latter has immense value, if Canucks management is confident he'll pan (I have no idea) out then they'd probably value him higher than that 1st.

Also, while no Pittsburgh fan is going to be enamoured getting a guy like Nils Hoglander in return, it shouldn't shock anyone if the actual GM thinks otherwise. He should definitely be on the table here.
 
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From The Athletic:

"Marcus Pettersson is the most likely candidate to be on the move. League sources said the Edmonton Oilers and Vancouver Canucks have interest in the lanky defenseman, and there’s every reason to believe other teams will covet him. In the final year of his contract, Pettersson is set to break the bank when free agency opens next summer. The Penguins value Pettersson, but they value replenishing their system considerably more. This is essentially the Guentzel situation all over again.

Pettersson is as good as gone."

www.nytimes.com

What I’m hearing about the Penguins: More trades are coming

The Penguins can read the writing on the wall, which means more trades are coming.
www.nytimes.com www.nytimes.com

If Dubas is honest in wanting young NHLers, I think Hoglander will be part of that. The Oilers have no young NHLers or NHL ready prospects, and no 1sts.
 
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Hoglander, Pettersson and a 1st for Pettersson is the absolute dream but I think there’s zero chance Vancouver goes for that. It largely depends on the market though, if the top-4 D market is terrible like it could be, they may not have a choice.
 
it'll probably just end up being hoglander for pettersson straight across. vancouver's probably not attaching a 1st, and hoglander is likely the best nhl player pittsburgh is going to get in that trade.
 
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God said:
it'll probably just end up being hoglander for pettersson straight across. vancouver's probably not attaching a 1st, and hoglander is likely the best nhl player pittsburgh is going to get in that trade.
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That offer would assuredly be beat by other teams.

Hoglander wouldn't even come close to Pettersson's value in the first place, nor does it make any sense why the Penguins would make that move with probably the top LD on the market.
 
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Empoleon8771 said:
I still can't see it from Vancouver. I could see Dubas being dumb enough to target Garland, but that's a super rich price for Vancouver to pay.

I think any of these trades are a reasonable expectation for a Pettersson to Vancouver trade:

1. Desharnais, Pettersson and a 2025 2nd for Pettersson at 50%
2. Hoglander, Myrio and a 2025 2nd for Pettersson at 50%
3. Desharnais, Myrio and a 2025 1st for Pettersson at 50%
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The Canucks can't afford to move Garland, he's extremely important to the Canucks, he hasn't been a cap dump for nearly 2 seasons now.
 
Empoleon8771 said:
That offer would assuredly be beat by other teams.

Hoglander wouldn't even come close to Pettersson's value in the first place, nor does it make any sense why the Penguins would make that move with probably the top LD on the market.
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I really don't think it's that far off, and no team is clamouring to give up a <25yo forward for UFA Marcus Pettersson. Like, we've been through this last year with Jake Guentzel, who should've returned a forture as the "top forward on the market" and instead returned a quantity of B-grade prospects and Michael Bunting.
 
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