Player Discussion Marco Rossi

[Dr Jan Itor]

You don’t understand the opposing argument. I’ve been pretty clear I value him as a player and have stated he should be on the 1st line.

I understand the argument. I disagree with the need to move him from the center position preemptively, for the main reason that we both know it is, before he actually shows us that he should be.

I also disagree that Rossi is bad defensively, and am not sure why it's talked about like it's generally accepted. There's kind of a lot of room between getting Selke votes and being "bad".

I also don't know what in Rossi's history/character makes people think he's not going to continue to work at his game to make it better, in all areas.

All I'm willing to do is give Rossi more runway than 2 seasons. Unless a legit better #1C option shakes loose. Then it's just business.

 

[DigitalBoldy]

I understand the argument. I disagree with the need to move him from the center position preemptively, for the main reason that we both know it is, before he actually shows us that he should be.

I also disagree that Rossi is bad defensively, and am not sure why it's talked about like it's generally accepted. There's kind of a lot of room between getting Selke votes and being "bad".

I also don't know what in Rossi's history/character makes people think he's not going to continue to work at his game to make it better, in all areas.

All I'm willing to do is give Rossi more runway than 2 seasons. Unless a legit better #1C option shakes loose. Then it's just business.

Explain preemptively.

The opposition argument isn’t saying to move Rossi to wing if the only centers we have are Ek-Yurov-Hartman-Gaudreau. It’s under the assumption that we add some type of middle 6 center similar to Ek. That’s where one should move Rossi to wing.

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

Explain preemptively.

The opposition argument isn’t saying to move Rossi to wing if the only centers we have are Ek-Yurov-Hartman-Gaudreau. It’s under the assumption that we add some type of middle 6 center similar to Ek. That’s where one should move Rossi to wing.

Sooner than necessary. Before it is clear that it needs to be done.

 

[Wabit]

Great minds! I was going to add in vision, and creativity, but was afraid that Wabit was going to make a poop filled drone targeting my house. All though that might be a win, too, as my wife would love it for the compost/garden.

You actually gave an answer to my question. That's what I was looking for not a lot of words but no actual answer. Both are a kind of intangible things without good ways to measure so it's a good discussion.

I wouldn't use a poop filled drone, that's to shitty of a job to undertake.

I'd wait until it was one of those weeks where it's hot, sunny, and no rain in the forecast, then use a drone filled with simple syrup and colorful bird seed...

 

[DigitalBoldy]

Sooner than necessary. Before it is clear that it needs to be done.

What would make it clear that it needs to be done from your perspective?

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

What would make it clear that it needs to be done from your perspective?

I would start him with Kaprizov and Boldy on the 1st line, for reasons that I previously outlined, and if that line did not work well then I would then look at other options (since I would be very sure that it wouldn't be Kaprizov's "fault" and almost very sure that it wouldn't be Boldy's). Playing with Kaprizov and Boldy is a "no excuses" type thing.

I have almost 5 months of Rossi being a good and productive centerman, with and without Kaprizov, and whatever happened in March is whatever that was. The other 5 months still happened.

 

[AKL]

I have almost 5 months of Rossi being a good and productive centerman, with and without Kaprizov, and whatever happened in March is whatever that was. The other 5 months still happened.

I'm still curious what the conversation would look like if he struggled for the first 22 games, and did well in the last 60. I suspect it would be a lot more universally positive, and I think we'd all be talking about how excited we are for him to take another step up next season.

 

[Luceni]

I'm still curious what the conversation would look like if he struggled for the first 22 games, and did well in the last 60. I suspect it would be a lot more universally positive, and I think we'd all be talking about how excited we are for him to take another step up next season.

You've written over 40k posts in this forum & you have logged in the first time here in 2012. I'm sure that you know hfboards is pretty much all about "what have u done for me lately".

So thats basically the reason why rossi is getting negative comments here: Some posterd won't accept that a 23 year old center still has lots of time/room to improve. But even with all of his limitations in their opinion (size, skating, defense, faceoffs) he's still managed to be on the All-Rookie team 2024 and hit 60p last season in his sophmore year. Don't forget that he's lost a full development year to COVID-19. To me those accomplishments so far are impressive. And with his work ethic he's a keeper in my opinion.

But he got demoted @ playoffs and hasn't have a good march (probably playinf through an injury too). What have u done for me lately is all that matters for a few.

 

[Minnewildsota]

You've written over 40k posts in this forum & you have logged in the first time here in 2012. I'm sure that you know hfboards is pretty much all about "what have u done for me lately".

So thats basically the reason why rossi is getting negative comments here: Some posterd won't accept that a 23 year old center still has lots of time/room to improve. But even with all of his limitations in their opinion (size, skating, defense, faceoffs) he's still managed to be on the All-Rookie team 2024 and hit 60p last season in his sophmore year. Don't forget that he's lost a full development year to COVID-19. To me those accomplishments so far are impressive. And with his work ethic he's a keeper in my opinion.

But he got demoted @ playoffs and hasn't have a good march (probably playinf through an injury too). What have u done for me lately is all that matters for a few.

Not really, but if it helps you sleep at night, keep telling yourself that.

I just don't feel comfortable paying 7x7 for a player who:
1) Isn't good defensively
2) Is small
3) Isn't a line driver
4) seems to have durability issues at 23 years old (this is predicated on if I remember correctly that he was also "worn down" at the end of last year)

This is not to say he's not a pretty good hockey player, he is. I'm just hesitant to give him 7x7 for his current role and I don't think he'll get THAT much better. Purely speculative, but so is every prediction of the future.

 

[DigitalBoldy]

I would start him with Kaprizov and Boldy on the 1st line, for reasons that I previously outlined, and if that line did not work well then I would then look at other options (since I would be very sure that it wouldn't be Kaprizov's "fault" and almost very sure that it wouldn't be Boldy's). Playing with Kaprizov and Boldy is a "no excuses" type thing.

I have almost 5 months of Rossi being a good and productive centerman, with and without Kaprizov, and whatever happened in March is whatever that was. The other 5 months still happened.

This is incredibly vague. What is “did not work well”?

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

What I know for a fact is, the 1st 17 games of this year, the top 2 lines essentially never changed:

Kaprizov - Rossi - Zuccarello
Johansson - Eriksson Ek - Boldy

In those first 17 games, Kaprizov was pacing 43 + 68 = 101 ES per 82. Then (I think) Zuccarello gets hurt because they switch up lines and put the Kaprizov-Eriksson Ek-Boldy line together for 8 games (until Ek gets hurt). In those 8 games, Kaprizov does fine with 7 ES points in 7 games (47 + 35 = 82 per 82). Ek doesn't do great in those games, 0 goals and 5 assists in 8 games (1 of which Kaprizov missed). Not a great sample size for those Kaprizov-Ek games, admittedly, but now add them to the end of the prior season and the playoffs this year, and it gets a little bigger.

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

This is incredibly vague. What is “did not work well”?

None of the guys producing like we are expecting them to: conservatively, Kaprizov 90+, Boldy 70+, Rossi 60+ or whatever the ES production equivalent would be compared to those total production numbers.

Maybe add 10 to each if you think that them together should warrant those expectations.

Couple that with the line spending too much time in the d-zone/not enough time in the o-zone, which would probably be a big factor in the production levels above anyway.

 

[DigitalBoldy]

None of the guys producing like we are expecting them to: conservatively, Kaprizov 90+, Boldy 70+, Rossi 60+ or whatever the ES production equivalent would be compared to those total production numbers.

Maybe add 10 to each if you think that them together should warrant those expectations.

Couple that with the line spending too much time in the d-zone/not enough time in the o-zone, which would probably be a big factor in the production levels above anyway.

Is that based on total production or a rolling count of the previous x amount of games?

 

[Luceni]

Not really, but if it helps you sleep at night, keep telling yourself that.

I just don't feel comfortable paying 7x7 for a player who:
1) Isn't good defensively
2) Is small
3) Isn't a line driver
4) seems to have durability issues at 23 years old (this is predicated on if I remember correctly that he was also "worn down" at the end of last year)

Rossi still has managed to be on the All-Rookie team 2024 and hit 60p last season in his sophmore year. Not sure how many other centers in the league managed to do that in their first two years in the NHL despite having all those weaknesses.

 

[DigitalBoldy]

Rossi still has managed to be on the All-Rookie team 2024 and hit 60p last season in his sophmore year. Not sure how many other centers in the league managed to do that in their first two years in the NHL despite having all those weaknesses.

Connor Bedard, if you count him as a center (terrible defensively, horrendous faceoffs, butttttt 61 and 67 points), did it at 18 and 19 years old.

 

[Wabit]

Is being on the all rookie team a big selling point?

I've heard a player finished 4th (or whatever) in the Calder voting, but I don't recall the all rookie team being anything more than a footnote when talking about players.

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

Is that based on total production or a rolling count of the previous x amount of games?

Probably a rolling count, but I'm not 100% sure I'm understanding the question.

I guess you play them together, and then assess after 5-10 games, then 15-20 games, then 25-30 games, if they're still playing together.

Essentially I just want Kaprizov and Boldy to play together, because watching them at the end of the 2023-24 season and in this year's playoffs was fun as hell. Then I want us to put what I think is our best offensive center with them and see what comes from it. Might be fireworks, which would be cool as hell; might not work, in which case you can tell Rossi that not being able to properly take advantage of that spot, now in his mid 20's and in his 3rd NHL season, is cause for concern and is going to result in a position change.

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

Is being on the all rookie team a big selling point?

I've heard a player finished 4th (or whatever) in the Calder voting, but I don't recall the all rookie team being anything more than a footnote when talking about players.

It's essentially just putting the Calder voting in positional form.

 

[Wabit]

Not really, but if it helps you sleep at night, keep telling yourself that.

I just don't feel comfortable paying 7x7 for a player who:
1) Isn't good defensively
2) Is small
3) Isn't a line driver
4) seems to have durability issues at 23 years old (this is predicated on if I remember correctly that he was also "worn down" at the end of last year)

This is not to say he's not a pretty good hockey player, he is. I'm just hesitant to give him 7x7 for his current role and I don't think he'll get THAT much better. Purely speculative, but so is every prediction of the future.

He was injured at the end of his AHL season too.

I don't really see any durability issues with Rossi. He's played 82 games each of his 2 full seasons. He might not have been 100% at the end of seasons, but nobody that has played a full seasons is at 100%

I don't hold the COVID/complications against him for durability. That was an illness not an injury, and everyone gets sick no matter how good of shape they are in.

 

[DigitalBoldy]

Probably a rolling count, but I'm not 100% sure I'm understanding the question.

I guess you play them together, and then assess after 5-10 games, then 15-20 games, then 25-30 games, if they're still playing together.

Essentially I just want Kaprizov and Boldy to play together, because watching them at the end of the 2023-24 season and in this year's playoffs was fun as hell. Then I want us to put what I think is our best offensive center with them and see what comes from it. Might be fireworks, which would be cool as hell; might not work, in which case you can tell Rossi that not being able to properly take advantage of that spot, now in his mid 20's and in his 3rd NHL season, is cause for concern and is going to result in a position change.

Basically, just looking at the previous 10 games from the current date. So if they’ve played 13 games, it would be the most recent 10 (games 4 through 13).

I’m game to try your way to see how it works. We will see if the Wild are willing to split Ek and Boldy. They seem to love pairing those two together; IMO because Ek keeps Boldy engaged in the play and Boldy can drive the offense of that line.

Does how the second and third lines perform factor in at all? If we are putting our (arguably) three best offensive forwards together, what do the other lines look like and who is driving play on each line?

 

[DigitalBoldy]

He was injured at the end of his AHL season too.

I don't really see any durability issues with Rossi. He's played 82 games each of his 2 full seasons. He might not have been 100% at the end of seasons, but nobody that has played a full seasons is at 100%

I don't hold the COVID/complications against him for durability. That was an illness not an injury, and everyone gets sick no matter how good of shape they are in.

I think endurance was the word that fits that category better. Rossi had a falloff in his rookie year in the second half. Year 2 had a similar falloff, but came a little later in the season.

 

[AKL]

Does how the second and third lines perform factor in at all? If we are putting our (arguably) three best offensive forwards together, what do the other lines look like and who is driving play on each line?

It hasn't really previously when the Kaprizov-Ek-Boldy line is together. They generally don't touch that and move stuff around below it. Playoffs were like that too.

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

Basically, just looking at the previous 10 games from the current date. So if they’ve played 13 games, it would be the most recent 10 (games 4 through 13).

I’m game to try your way to see how it works. We will see if the Wild are willing to split Ek and Boldy. They seem to love pairing those two together; IMO because Ek keeps Boldy engaged in the play and Boldy can drive the offense of that line.

Does how the second and third lines perform factor in at all? If we are putting our (arguably) three best offensive forwards together, what do the other lines look like and who is driving play on each line?

I guess that might also tie into how the team is doing, but if the 1st line is humming and the 2nd and 3rd aren't, with Eriksson Ek, Zuccarello, Yurov, Ohgren, probably Hartman and a ~$7M UFA/trade target comprising them, I kind of would want to (selfishly) tell them to just figure it the hell out.

I would probably start them off as follows:

Ohgren* - Eriksson Ek - Hartman
Top defensive matchups, should be able to chip in offense if Ohgren is a player and Hartman has his head right. Eriksson Ek drives the line akin to his Greenway/Foligno days.

~$7M player - Yurov - Zuccarello
Should be getting 3rd rate matchups; young talented player + offensive veteran + whatever wildcard the unknown player is. Not sure who is "driving" it, but hopefully it's just something that fits given the matchups.

*Hynes would probably do Foligno here, but I would prefer giving the rookie a look to see if strides have been made.

 

[DigitalBoldy]

What I know for a fact is, the 1st 17 games of this year, the top 2 lines essentially never changed:

Kaprizov - Rossi - Zuccarello
Johansson - Eriksson Ek - Boldy

For the love of god, Guerin needs to get better wingers than Zucc and Johansson for those roles.

I don’t think anyone would complain where Rossi/Ek/Yurov would play if we had three solid winger combinations. For example:

Kaprizov-XXXX-Boldy
Duchene-XXXX-Tuch
Ohgren-XXXX-Hartman
Foligno-Gaudreau-Trenin

All they have to do is put an aggressive trade package in for Tuch and convince Duchene that we are right there.

BONUS: we still have the center versatility I’m after with Duchene and Hartman playing wing.

 

[AKL]

If the middle six can't figure out how to consistently contribute behind Kaprizov-Rossi-Boldy, I really don't think swapping Eriksson Ek and Rossi is going to help the middle six too much. Unless Rossi takes a big step forward this year, the better thing to do seems to be splitting Kaprizov and Boldy.