Player Discussion Marco Rossi

[ctmagic]

So in a hypothetical world where we sign Rossi to play center this season, add Yurov to the center mix, and assume good health by everyone for the season, how much TOI is Rossi getting on this team? He had 18:15 last year, and I don’t think he matches that, probably goes back to his TOI from two years ago at 16:45. I’d be surprised if he hit a 60pt season with less time. I feel like he could cap out as a 50pt player that is less effective in the playoffs, could be a smart move here to sell after last season.

 

[57special]

Again, for that post I was comparing the players they currently are. JEE is currently better at all center things than Rossi currently is. Yet JEE is somehow the 3C "matchup center" in a lot of lineups for next season.

Who the heck cares what each player was at 8 years old when talking about where they should play next season?

So what you're saying is everyone should be complaining about not taking Lundell over Rossi to even things out with JEE/Boeser?

I would argue that he is not a better passer, and JEE simply doesn't wasn't available for much of last year. He played 46 games to Rossi's 82... that's a big deal.

The 2nd bolded is simply silly talk. You just can't seem to accept that Rossi is a player entering his prime, while JEE is a player leaving his. That matters, when comparing players.

I like both players, and they have contrasting skillsets. Until we get something better, I don't understand why would move either.

 

[57special]

So in a hypothetical world where we sign Rossi to play center this season, add Yurov to the center mix, and assume good health by everyone for the season, how much TOI is Rossi getting on this team? He had 18:15 last year, and I don’t think he matches that, probably goes back to his TOI from two years ago at 16:45. I’d be surprised if he hit a 60pt season with less time. I feel like he could cap out as a 50pt player that is less effective in the playoffs, could be a smart move here to sell after last season.

Again, a good problem to have. Let's see JEE come back and have an injury free year, and see if the rookie can match his .5 P/PG KHL production in the NHL. I would understand getting antsy to move out a 33-35 yo, but not a 23 yo, as a poster above mentioned. What's the hurry?

If you have doubts about his game give him a bridge deal.

 

[BagHead]

So in a hypothetical world where we sign Rossi to play center this season, add Yurov to the center mix, and assume good health by everyone for the season, how much TOI is Rossi getting on this team? He had 18:15 last year, and I don’t think he matches that, probably goes back to his TOI from two years ago at 16:45. I’d be surprised if he hit a 60pt season with less time. I feel like he could cap out as a 50pt player that is less effective in the playoffs, could be a smart move here to sell after last season.

I think with less ice time but another year of development under his belt, he very well could repeat as a 60 point player. I suspect that, as his body matures, his late-season dropoffs will start to disappear or shrink in length. I'd be surprised if he played less than 2nd line center minutes next year.

Contrary to you, I think he'll be a good playoff performer in his career. He works hard all game and goes to the difficult areas, and that's what's needed most in the playoffs. His size is going to prevent him from out-grinding some people along the boards when the intensity ramps up, but as his strength increases I think he'll be able to out-grind many people. That flaw also gets minimized to some degree if he's playing center and not wing. We saw this postseason that he could still be effecitve offensively even with the 4th line that hadn't been scoring at all.

I don't think he's a perfect player or anything, but I think he's a high end one. He'll never be as assertive and pugnacious as Marchand, nor as fast and strong as St. Louis, but I think he'll be as responsible on the ice as Toews was(is?) even while lacking his size, and probably put up similar offensive numbers from now on (~60 points most years, upward of 80 in his best years). That's not to say he'll be as good as Toews was, but maybe be something of a "poor man's". That's absolutely fine for a 2nd line center, and maybe even for a 1B type center. I think $7x7 would be a lot for next year, but will quickly look somewhat inexpensive.

 

[ctmagic]

Again, a good problem to have. Let's see JEE come back and have an injury free year, and see if the rookie can match his .5 P/PG KHL production in the NHL. I would understand getting antsy to move out a 33-35 yo, but not a 23 yo, as a poster above mentioned. What's the hurry?

If you have doubts about his game give him a bridge deal.

The argument here is that he’s not a playoff center and he’s coming off a 60pt season. That’s why Guerin in antsy. If we have cup aspirations, I’m not mad at management moving on from him, but it’s a bummer how Rossi’s been handled to this point. Either way, I hope Rossi proves everyone wrong. I like him on this team too, but I’m not losing sleep over trading a 5’9” center if we can get something back.

 

[BagHead]

I would argue that he is not a better passer, and JEE simply doesn't wasn't available for much of last year. He played 46 games to Rossi's 82... that's a big deal.

The 2nd bolded is simply silly talk. You just can't seem to accept that Rossi is a player entering his prime, while JEE is a player leaving his. That matters, when comparing players.

I like both players, and they have contrasting skillsets. Until we get something better, I don't understand why would move either.

To piggy back a bit, I think his vision from the center of the ice is also better than JEE's, currently.

 

[HotDish]

I’ve all but resigned myself to the fact that Rossi is gone. I think my apprehension is tied to the fact that I do not trust Guerin to make the correct trade. I’m fine with moving pieces, even ones I like. (I’m fine with the timberwolves trading McDaniels for example)

I just don’t see how Guerin accomplishes a trade that “makes us better” as he says. I think a package of futures is the best you could hope for in the sense of easiest to not screw up for Guerin.

Unless you are using Rossi in a package, I don’t see him fetching a better player than what he is. If we are doing something like Rossi + Brodin. I could see us getting some win now pieces.

If Guerin moves Rossi as the centerpiece in a trade, it leads me to think the center position is going to be weaker next year even with a center FA signing.

It feels like a move to take 2 steps backwards in the hopes of moving 3 forward, without acknowledging that only moving 1 step forward after taking the steps backwards is a possibility.

Again, not against trading Rossi but I have a feeling the return we will get may be worse than just keeping him (which idk if possible anymore)

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

So in a hypothetical world where we sign Rossi to play center this season, add Yurov to the center mix, and assume good health by everyone for the season, how much TOI is Rossi getting on this team? He had 18:15 last year, and I don’t think he matches that, probably goes back to his TOI from two years ago at 16:45. I’d be surprised if he hit a 60pt season with less time. I feel like he could cap out as a 50pt player that is less effective in the playoffs, could be a smart move here to sell after last season.

In my hypothetical world, he's playing with Kaprizov and Boldy so I'd still expect him to play a lot. Cut his PP points in half due to not being on PP1 but then add in general player improvement from 23 to 24+ years old and I think there's a good chance he'd continue to be in the 60+ production area.

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

The argument here is that he’s not a playoff center and he’s coming off a 60pt season. That’s why Guerin in antsy. If we have cup aspirations, I’m not mad at management moving on from him, but it’s a bummer how Rossi’s been handled to this point. Either way, I hope Rossi proves everyone wrong. I like him on this team too, but I’m not losing sleep over trading a 5’9” center if we can get something back.

I'd like to see the list of 60+ point 5'9" centers in the last 25 years before saying that Rossi couldn't succeed in the playoffs.

 

[57special]

To piggy back a bit, I think his vision from the center of the ice is also better than JEE's, currently.

Great minds! I was going to add in vision, and creativity, but was afraid that Wabit was going to make a poop filled drone targeting my house. All though that might be a win, too, as my wife would love it for the compost/garden.

 

[BagHead]

Great minds! I was going to add in vision, and creativity, but was afraid that Wabit was going to make a poop filled drone targeting my house. All though that might be a win, too, as my wife would love it for the compost/garden.

Oh, for the compost garden. Ok then.

 

[57special]

Oh, for the compost garden. Ok then.

What? Poop is a must for a good compost.

 

[ctmagic]

I'd like to see the list of 60+ point 5'9" centers in the last 25 years before saying that Rossi couldn't succeed in the playoffs.

I’ll never say he can’t become an effective playoff performer, there’s always exceptions to the rule. I guess my point is that I’m not going to hold it against management if they play the percentages.

 

[AKL]

In my hypothetical world, he's playing with Kaprizov and Boldy so I'd still expect him to play a lot. Cut his PP points in half due to not being on PP1 but then add in general player improvement from 23 to 24+ years old and I think there's a good chance he'd continue to be in the 60+ production area.

Add in playing a full season with Kaprizov too, like Eriksson Ek and Hartman did when they had their 64/65 point seasons.

 

[f7ben]

I didn’t read a single post here that disparaged EK , not one.

We have a big enough sample to know what Ek is. He’s a north south 100% effort type of guy. Hes gritty and fearless and a pest and is exactly the type of player you can win with and possibly because of.

He is also not a player you want to be your 1C if your goal is to win a cup.

If your 3 centers were Barkov , Rossi and Ek I think anyone being honest knows exactly what you’re trying to build with them.

What amazing to me is that almost to the poster here we all admitted Rossi was worth every bit as much as Boldy through the first 50 games of last season.

Rossi hit a rough stretch for 20 games and Boldy took a step forward. This is perfectly fine.

Read here though and that 20 game stretch has half of us saying you can’t win with Rossi and Boldy is a de facto Rantanen.

Talk about absurd recency bias and deference to the idiot running the show

 

[BagHead]

What? Poop is a must for a good compost.

When I was reading that post, I didn't know where you were going with it right up until the end. It was a fun adventure.

was afraid that Wabit was going to make a poop filled drone targeting my house. All though that might be a win, too, as my wife would love it

 

[AKL]

I didn’t read a single post here that disparaged EK , not one.

In a sense, talking about his limitations and flaws is disparaging him, but it's possible that he's become overrated around here simply because 1) he's been the only good center we've had for several years (prior to the most recent one), and 2) he's a very likeable person and player, so suddenly having another center who's better at some things, and talking about those things, is jarring to some.

 

[f7ben]

In a sense, talking about his limitations and flaws is disparaging him, but it's possible that he's become overrated around here simply because 1) he's been the only good center we've had for several years (prior to the most recent one), and 2) he's a very likeable person and player, so suddenly having another center who's better at some things, and talking about those things, is jarring to some.

Discussing what someone is as a player is not disparaging them , they provide a product on the ice and we are here to consume it. It’s not like someone called his mom fat or said he was a low life junkie child molester.

Ek is awesome , he’s always provided more value than he’s been compensated. He should be the captain of this team. He is not a 1C and that is just fine.

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

Ek is worse than Koivu both offensively and defensively, at similar ages and with better linemates, and Koivu saw a lot more shit than Ek has seen in this thread.

 

[AKL]

Discussing what someone is as a player is not disparaging them , they provide a product on the ice and we are here to consume it. It’s not like someone called his mom fat or said he was a low life junkie child molester.

Ek is awesome , he’s always provided more value than he’s been compensated. He should be the captain of this team. He is not a 1C and that is just fine.

I agree with you, that's just what I see as the reason for the "disparaging Ek" comments that have been popping up.

75% of what we do here is talk about players flaws and limitations, if that's enough to be disparaging, we disparage everybody, and Ek gets it the least.

 

[57special]

Ek is worse than Koivu both offensively and defensively, at similar ages and with better linemates, and Koivu saw a lot more shit than Ek has seen in this thread.

Right about this time in Koivu/JEE's career, they missed a lot of games due to injury, which ultimately affected Koivu's overall career and legacy. I(and Lemaire) thought he was a terrific player.

I found it weird that JEE could get healthy enough to play a big role in the four nations, then go down again immediately afterwards.

 

[DigitalBoldy]

"The Clique That Values Young Players Even If They're Short".

I might have to workshop that one.

You don’t understand the opposing argument. I’ve been pretty clear I value him as a player and have stated he should be on the 1st line.

 

[DigitalBoldy]

Hard to follow these arguments but I'm learning that the second leading scorer on the team, a cost-controlled 23 year old center, is not good enough for the team because of something or other.

You don’t understand the argument. Try again.

 

[DigitalBoldy]

I would argue that he is not a better passer, and JEE simply doesn't wasn't available for much of last year. He played 46 games to Rossi's 82... that's a big deal.

The 2nd bolded is simply silly talk. You just can't seem to accept that Rossi is a player entering his prime, while JEE is a player leaving his. That matters, when comparing players.

I like both players, and they have contrasting skillsets. Until we get something better, I don't understand why would move either.

Eriksson Ek is leaving his prime? lol

 

[DigitalBoldy]

I didn’t read a single post here that disparaged EK , not one.

We have a big enough sample to know what Ek is. He’s a north south 100% effort type of guy. Hes gritty and fearless and a pest and is exactly the type of player you can win with and possibly because of.

He is also not a player you want to be your 1C if your goal is to win a cup.

If your 3 centers were Barkov , Rossi and Ek I think anyone being honest knows exactly what you’re trying to build with them.

What amazing to me is that almost to the poster here we all admitted Rossi was worth every bit as much as Boldy through the first 50 games of last season.

Rossi hit a rough stretch for 20 games and Boldy took a step forward. This is perfectly fine.

Read here though and that 20 game stretch has half of us saying you can’t win with Rossi and Boldy is a de facto Rantanen.

Talk about absurd recency bias and deference to the idiot running the show

Boldy next to Kaprizov paced what, 100 points? Boldy is a substantially better player than Rossi.