Player Discussion Marco Rossi

[AKL]

JEE is currently better at all center things than Rossi currently is.

If this is true, why did Rossi win the 1C spot for the first 35 games, and then still get to play with Boldy when Kaprizov was out?

And if your answer is going to be because they wanted to spread the offense, why did Eriksson Ek win it back at the end of the year when Rossi was struggling?

Who the heck cares what each player was at 8 years old when talking about where they should play next season?

Rossi was already better this season than Eriksson Ek was. Maybe Eriksson Ek bounces back next year. Maybe Rossi keeps developing.

But let me ask, if you don't care about the past, why do you keep referencing Ek's previous years, especially with statements like this:

JEE has more goals and points in a season,

Who cares about what they did in the past right? Or do we use the past to inform the future?

 

[DigitalBoldy]

Again, you're comparing apples to oranges. Compare 23yo JEE(when everyone was moaning about how we should've taken Boeser instead of him) to 23yo Rossi.

The Rossi clique will say to just compare the flat totals and to ignore all context of both their deployments in their 23 year old season.

Honestly, it’s completely ignorant to suggest comparing them in that way. But they don’t allow for points per 60 comparison, so whatcha gonna do?

 

[AKL]

The Rossi clique will say to just compare the flat totals and to ignore all context of both their deployments in their 23 year old season.

If one guy is playing first line minutes in the NHL at 23, and one guy is still in the AHL at 23, what's your conclusion about those two players?

 

[DigitalBoldy]

Boldy just had 73 points in his 23 year old season. Kaprizov had 51 points in his 23 year old season.

Obviously, Boldy is a much better offensive player than Kaprizov was and definitely don’t look at any additional context to the situation whatsoever.

I present to you all, the Rossi clique’s argument.

 

[AKL]

Boldy just had 73 points in his 23 year old season. Kaprizov had 51 points in his 23 year old season.

Obviously, Boldy is a much better offensive player than Kaprizov was and definitely don’t look at any additional context to the situation whatsoever.

I present to you all, the Rossi clique’s argument.

I'm going to take this deflection as confirmation of my point, thanks.

 

[Wabit]

If this is true, why did Rossi win the 1C spot for the first 35 games, and then still get to play with Boldy when Kaprizov was out?

And if your answer is going to be because they wanted to spread the offense, why did Eriksson Ek win it back at the end of the year when Rossi was struggling?


Rossi was already better this season than Eriksson Ek was. Maybe Eriksson Ek bounces back next year. Maybe Rossi keeps developing.

But let me ask, if you don't care about the past, why do you keep referencing Ek's previous years, especially with statements like this:


Who cares about what they did in the past right? Or do we use the past to inform the future?

What was Rossi better at? Rossi got the 1C so Kap could shelter him, same as Sam Steel and Victor Rask.

When Kap was out and JEE got back I don't know why they did what they did. Sometime I wonder if they just ask the magic 8 ball what to do. All I remember is the team was about a .500 team and not much fun to watch.

 

[AKL]

What was Rossi better at?

Offense

I really think we need to bear in mind that the first 60 games of the season did actually happen, in addition to the last 22

 

[Wabit]

Offense

I really think we need to bear in mind that the first 60 games of the season did actually happen, in addition to the last 22

Wow 60p.

JEE had a 30g/64p season the year prior when healthy. Hartman has a 65p season too. So by that logic HArtman should be the 1C, JEE the 2C, and Rossi the 3C. Right?

Oh wait that's almost what happened in the Playoffs. Weird.

 

[Wabit]

If one guy is playing first line minutes in the NHL at 23, and one guy is still in the AHL at 23, what's your conclusion about those two players?

Girgensons at 21 was playing 1st line minutes for BUF. It doesn't mean that he belonged there.

 

[AKL]

Wow 60p.

JEE had a 30g/64p season the year prior when healthy. Hartman has a 65p season too. So by that logic HArtman should be the 1C, JEE the 2C, and Rossi the 3C. Right?

Oh wait that's almost what happened in the Playoffs. Weird.

This is where I point out that Rossi was only 23 when he scored 60 (and was pacing for more at one point, without Kaprizov), while those other guys were 26+, and how at 23 they weren't scoring 60, which illustrates how Rossi is likely the better offensive player going forward, and then you go on about how what they did when they were 8 doesn't matter, because it's about right now, despite the fact that you just used their past performance rather than their right now performance to make the case that Ek and Hartman are better.

Make that make sense for me.

 

[AKL]

Girgensons at 21 was playing 1st line minutes for BUF. It doesn't mean that he belonged there.

That's great, man, really happy for you, but all I said was if you're going to exclude the data from the past because you don't care about what they did in the past, your entire argument for Ek being better offensively can't rely solely on data from the past.

 

[Wabit]

This is where I point out that Rossi was only 23 when he scored 60 (and was pacing for more at one point, without Kaprizov), while those other guys were 26+, and how at 23 they weren't scoring 60, which illustrates how Rossi is likely the better offensive player going forward, and then you go on about how what they did when they were 8 doesn't matter, because it's about right now, despite the fact that you just used their past performance rather than their right now performance to make the case that Ek and Hartman are better.

Make that make sense for me.

It's not a likely question or what he could turn into. It is the current player abilities (in a healthy condition).

It's not 23yo vs 33yo vs 13yo question/statement/comparison. If you're counting just points this year Rossi (60p) is a better player than Kap (54). Because 60p is all that seems to matter.

 

[Wabit]

That's great, man, really happy for you, but all I said was if you're going to exclude the data from the past because you don't care about what they did in the past, your entire argument for Ek being better offensively can't rely solely on data from the past.

Well Rossi this year was less ToI/game than JEE so he shouldn't qualify as the 1st line player either. Right?

 

[AKL]

It's not a likely question or what he could turn into. It is the current player abilities (in a healthy condition).

Wonderful, thanks for bringing this up. If we're going to wipe away this season from Ek's record because of the idea that he wasn't healthy for part of it, let's wipe out March from Rossi's record too, and talk about his 70 point pace, which is more than Eriksson Ek and Hartman have done.

Look at that, Rossi's back to 1C.

It's not 23yo vs 33yo vs 13yo question/statement/comparison. If you're counting just points this year Rossi (60p) is a better player than Kap (54). Because 60p is all that seems to matter.

 

[Wabit]

Wonderful, thanks for bringing this up. If we're going to wipe away this season from Ek's record because of the idea that he wasn't healthy for part of it, let's wipe out March from Rossi's record too, and talk about his 70 point pace, which is more than Eriksson Ek and Hartman have done.

Look at that, Rossi's back to 1C.

Okay so Rossi is a better player than Kap by this logic.

 

[AKL]

Okay so Rossi is a better player than Kap by this logic.

This is low effort bait.

It was your idea that says that what a player does now is all that matters, not what they did in the past.

I'm explaining to you how using your logic, the conclusion one would come to is that Rossi is better than Eriksson Ek and Hartman.

You're trying to prove to me how stupid that logic (your logic) is by saying it means Rossi is better than Kaprizov.

 

[Wabit]

This is low effort bait.

It was your idea that says that what a player does now is all that matters, not what they did in the past.

I'm explaining to you how using your logic, the conclusion one would come to is that Rossi is better than Eriksson Ek and Hartman.

You're trying to prove to me how stupid that logic (your logic) is by saying it means Rossi is better than Kaprizov.

Since all that matter is last year's points Rossi > Kap. Since all that matters is what happened at age 23 Rossi > Kap. These are the arguments for Rossi. Hes scored 60p at age 23. Nothing else matters. Hell Rossi even did this at a more important position so bonus points for Rossi. This is the logic behind every Rossi is great argument.

Adv 5v5 rates (Even strength is similar numbers) on ice last year:
CF% JEE 53.4, Rossi 50.1
FF% JEE 53.9, Rossi 51.1
SF% JEE 53.9. Rossi 50.9
GF% JEE 60.5, Rossi 53.5
xGF% JEE 54.9, Rossi 53.2
SCF% JEE 57.1, Rossi 51.7
HDCF% JEE 58.3, Rossi 52.8
HDGF% Rossi 56.5, JEE 35.3 (this one seems weird to me when compared to the rest of the stats)
SH% Rossi 9.9, JEE 8.1
SV%: JEE 93.8, Rossi 92.1
PDO: tie 1.02
O-zone FO%: Rossi 54.6, JEE 45.0

PP: they were better together than seperate.

PK: JEE did and Rossi didn't, can't compare stats.

3v3 and EN play: does it matter with the very small sample size?

*Sorted line tool JEE + Rossi for the stats. ~3 mins together 5v5

 

[AKL]

Since all that matter is last year's points Rossi > Kap. Since all that matters is what happened at age 23 Rossi > Kap.

Great, so we agree neither of these things are true.

Really good thing for me neither of these were my argument.

 

[Prior]

Comical at this point that in an effort to prop Rossi up for some reason is to disparage JEE. Sure, pencil him in at the 3C. Better go about how you are finding two better centers than Rossi.

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

lol, we’re a clique now. I kind of like that.

 

[DigitalBoldy]

I'm going to take this deflection as confirmation of my point, thanks.

Whatever you need to do fam.

Your inability to deny it is confirmation that what I said hit the nail on the head for your (faulty) argument.

 

[DigitalBoldy]

lol, we’re a clique now. I kind of like that.

It rolls off the keyboard better than Rossi propagandists lol

 

[Luceni]

I'm staying away from this thread for some time now. Some posters are really stubborn and just seem to undervalue/hate Rossi and won't accept that a 23 year old center still has lots of time/room to improve. But even with all his limitations (size, skating, defense, faceoffs) he's still managed to be on the All-Rookie team 2024 and hit 60p last season in his sophmore year. Don't forget that he's lost a full development year to COVID-19. To me those accomplishments so far are impressive.

Those facts mentioned above combined with his (proven!) work ethic personality is not a player I'd like to give away for picks/prospects, especially when a franchise is lacking quality scoring centers for a long time.

I think Rossi is well worth 7m/year if they use him properly to his skillset and don't bury him in the lineup like they did in playoffs. A 7 million deal per year will look pretty sweet in 2-3 years considering the cap rising so fast.

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

It rolls off the keyboard better than Rossi propagandists lol

"The Clique That Values Young Players Even If They're Short".

I might have to workshop that one.

 

[Saga of the Elk]

Hard to follow these arguments but I'm learning that the second leading scorer on the team, a cost-controlled 23 year old center, is not good enough for the team because of something or other.

Surely a winner's mentality.

I think of Zach Hyman -- he had only six points as a 23 year old. But I wonder if Toronto could have used the player he became. Or Carter Verhaeghe, another Toronto property who couldn't even make the NHL as a 23 year old. Today he's a two-time Cup winner.

Bad teams lose good assets for cheap. Good teams acquire good assets for cheap. Guess which side the Wild historically pursue?