Player Discussion Marco Rossi

[DigitalBoldy]

Just following your lead hoss

I never complained about them though. That would make me a hypocrite and I don’t want to be like you.

 

[AKL]

I never complained about them though. That would make me a hypocrite and I don’t want to be like you.

Whatever helps you sleep at night I guess

 

[AKL]

I never complained about them though. That would make me a hypocrite and I don’t want to be like you.

No need for the straw man.

Nobody said this. Nice straw man

Oops, there goes that

Use them whenever it's convenient, complain about them whenever it's convenient, don't complain about them whenever it's convenient, whatever works best for you at the time. Something like a hypocrite I guess.

But hey, if you didn't talk out both sides of your mouth, you wouldn't ever talk, so it is what it is.

 

[DigitalBoldy]

Oops, there goes that

Use them whenever it's convenient, complain about them whenever it's convenient, don't complain about them whenever it's convenient, whatever works best for you at the time. Something like a hypocrite I guess.

But hey, if you didn't talk out both sides of your mouth, you wouldn't ever talk, so it is what it is.

Damn, I’m just like you. Shit. I need to do better.

 

[Puhis]

for f***'s sake, handbags at dawn aight?

 

[P10p]

Probably going to get deleted but man digital has grown into quite the toxic debater.

 

[f7ben]

Probably going to get deleted but man digital has grown into quite the toxic debater.

I love it , he will pick a hill …..any f***ing hill. He will then die 1000 deaths on that hill no matter how bad he’s objectively been proven to be biased and arguing in poor faith lol. It’s what the internet was made for and I appreciate him

 

[MNRube]

Player 1: 0.73 PPG in the NHL. Has been a C his entire career.

Player 2: 0.54 in the KHL. Recently converted to C. Never played in North America, much less the NHL.

Which one would you want as your 2C next fall?

The Rossi to the wing thing is absurd. It’s just a peculiar thing to harp on and an annoying distraction when we don’t know if Rossi will be on the team and if Yurov will be any good

 

[AKL]

He's not really 0/3 because it's not a binary system of measurement, it's a spectrum.

1. He's not good at faceoffs yet, but that's normal for young centers, and he's not the worst in the NHL at them, and he will likely improve as most young players do.
2. Defensively he puts in effort but isn't strong enough on the puck. That's normal in young players and is a thing that will likely improve to some degree. He's at least smart enough that he gets into the right spot most of the time.
3. I'm not sure what the third thing is and I don't care enough to look back.

The main thing is that he's already good at the hardest part of the game, and is young enough to improve enough to likely become competent at the parts of the game he isn't good at yet.

I just wanna say this is a really good post.

 

[Tally Tiger Shark]

I don't much like 33 year old Pageau playing 2C minutes as our big center swing.

If we are talking to Buffalo about Peterka, there is another player I’d like to bring with him. Ryan McLeod. One year older than Marco, probably 65-70% the scorer Marco is, but he’s a much better defender, plays the kill and is better in the dot. His play on that end makes up for any lost offense from Rossi.

I don’t see this team ever signing a legit 1C via free agency due to cost and I don’t see getting one in a trade either. We need to improve the overall depth there instead and McLeod would do that. And if Yurov develops like we all hope, we could do a hell of a lot worse than McLeod at 3C.

Rossi, Ohgren and a prospect for Peterka and McLeod. You extend both and you still have $3-5M left to spend.

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

Yurov is the offensive role center. Pageau is the “Eriksson Ek help”, which is what the Wild have clearly stated they are looking to add.

I would not prefer the offensive role center playing on the offensive line to play less than the 3rd line.

 

[Wabit]

Granlund had 79p total in his 21-23 year old seasons (13-14 and 14-15) while being deployed as a center. He was moved to wing in his 23-24 year old season (15-16) and then broke out scoring some points. Not even remotely comparable to Rossi who spent his first season with garbage linemates and limited pp time and second season where Kap missed over half the time.

Sorry bout your luck

Grannyy wasn't moved to wing until 16-17. He played wing in the Playoffs because Parise and Vanek got injured at the end of the season. The bottom-6 consisted of Gabriel (4 games), Dalpe (3 games), Jones (6 games, awful trade), Fontaine (4 games), Schroeder (2 games), Stoll (4 games), Carter (2 games).

The Playoff top-6 consisted of Nino/Haula/Pommer (were amazing), Zucker(IIRC)/Koivu/Granny. Granny centered Nino/Pommer in G1 when Haula was out. Coyle was stuck with the garbage as the 3C.

Rossi spent over 2/3 his 5v5 ToI with at least one of Kap (104p pace), Boldy (75p pace), Zucc (75p pace). -1142 total 5v5 mins
-369 5v5 mins without one of the top-3 wings
-776 5v5 mins with at least one of the top-3 wings.

As for limited PP time that is bs. Rossi had 172 mins (23-24) compared to 194 mins (24-25), or a difference of 17 secs per game between the 2 seasons.

But if we're only looking at Granny's 21 and 22 yo seasons. He had 41p (63 games) and 39p (68 games). Rossi at the same age was 1p (19 games) and 40p (82 games). Granny had 23 Playoff games (13 points) and Rossi had 0.

FOs are the greatest stats to measure centers, but 15-16 Granny took more FOs than 24-25 Rossi.

 

[DigitalBoldy]

Probably going to get deleted but man digital has grown into quite the toxic debater.

I’m literally just feeding the same energy people give me right back to them. What does that tell you?

 

[DigitalBoldy]

I would not prefer the offensive role center playing on the offensive line to play less than the 3rd line.

How you want to play Yurov is your prerogative.

 

[f7ben]

Grannyy wasn't moved to wing until 16-17. He played wing in the Playoffs because Parise and Vanek got injured at the end of the season. The bottom-6 consisted of Gabriel (4 games), Dalpe (3 games), Jones (6 games, awful trade), Fontaine (4 games), Schroeder (2 games), Stoll (4 games), Carter (2 games).

The Playoff top-6 consisted of Nino/Haula/Pommer (were amazing), Zucker(IIRC)/Koivu/Granny. Granny centered Nino/Pommer in G1 when Haula was out. Coyle was stuck with the garbage as the 3C.

Rossi spent over 2/3 his 5v5 ToI with at least one of Kap (104p pace), Boldy (75p pace), Zucc (75p pace). -1142 total 5v5 mins
-369 5v5 mins without one of the top-3 wings
-776 5v5 mins with at least one of the top-3 wings.

As for limited PP time that is bs. Rossi had 172 mins (23-24) compared to 194 mins (24-25), or a difference of 17 secs per game between the 2 seasons.

But if we're only looking at Granny's 21 and 22 yo seasons. He had 41p (63 games) and 39p (68 games). Rossi at the same age was 1p (19 games) and 40p (82 games). Granny had 23 Playoff games (13 points) and Rossi had 0.

FOs are the greatest stats to measure centers, but 15-16 Granny took more FOs than 24-25 Rossi.

I must have been looking at some f***ed up stats then because it showed a sharp decline in granny faceoffs in 15-16. I assumed he moved to wing then

 

[DigitalBoldy]

I love it , he will pick a hill …..any f***ing hill. He will then die 1000 deaths on that hill no matter how bad he’s objectively been proven to be biased and arguing in poor faith lol. It’s what the internet was made for and I appreciate him

*Wild fans see the Stanley Cup Finals and how important big strong fast 2 way centers are to winning it all*

Also Wild fans: yeah, I wanna hitch my wagon to a tiny slow one dimensional center.

I don’t care if I’m viewed as biased. The teams still playing right now literally show the blueprint on how to win the Cup. Wild fans are showing they are more interested in doing the exact opposite.

 

[Spurgeon]

This thread must be what it’s like to experience a marathon filibuster session.

 

[MrRuin]

This thread must be what it’s like to experience a marathon filibuster session.

Very apt comparison!

 

[BagHead]

I must have been looking at some f***ed up stats then because it showed a sharp decline in granny faceoffs in 15-16. I assumed he moved to wing then

He centered Parise and Pominville that year, technically as 2nd line center, but he was 3rd on the team among all forwards in Avg. ToI behind Koivu and Parise. He and Rossi had very similar Avg. PP ToI as well, with stretches where he was pretty clearly on the top PP, and other stretches where he got less time, either because not many penalties were being called or because he got demoted to the 2nd PP. He had very little PK time until the very end of the season.
He was moved to wing in game 2 of the playoffs, talked to the media about how it was easier to play, and then thrived there the next year, playing extensively with Koivu and Zucker.

Granlund and Rossi have very similar abilities, similar mentality, and performed similarly at the same ages. I imagine it would be even more obvious if Rossi hadn't missed a year of development with myocarditis. Is he Granlund's 2nd coming long-term? Maybe, but that's not set in stone, for better or worse. I think there's a legit chance that Rossi might be even better at wing, but this team needs him to be a center until a better center comes along.

 

[Wabit]

If we are talking to Buffalo about Peterka, there is another player I’d like to bring with him. Ryan McLeod. One year older than Marco, probably 65-70% the scorer Marco is, but he’s a much better defender, plays the kill and is better in the dot. His play on that end makes up for any lost offense from Rossi.

I don’t see this team ever signing a legit 1C via free agency due to cost and I don’t see getting one in a trade either. We need to improve the overall depth there instead and McLeod would do that. And if Yurov develops like we all hope, we could do a hell of a lot worse than McLeod at 3C.

Rossi, Ohgren and a prospect for Peterka and McLeod. You extend both and you still have $3-5M left to spend.

This is gross for BUF. It's a downgrade at both positions. BUF doesn't really need any of MN's prospects.

Going from:
Tage/Norris/Tuch
Zucker/McLeod/Peterka
Quinn/Kulich/Greenway
???/Krebs/

to:
Tage/Norris/Tuch
Zucker/Rossi/Quinn
Ohgren/Kulich/Greenway
???/Krebs???

Rossi for Peterka can work (wing for wing swap). Rossi for McLeod doesn't work (center for center swap). Ohgren has no value for BUF they have a bunch of similar prospects in their system.

McLeod is 2 years older than Rossi, but this was his first year not stuck behind McDavid/Drais. So there is that caveat to his first NHL few seasons.

Norris needs to stay healthy, that's the big question mark for BUF's on paper lineup.

 

[BagHead]

*Wild fans see the Stanley Cup Finals and how important big strong fast 2 way centers are to winning it all*

Also Wild fans: yeah, I wanna hitch my wagon to a tiny slow one dimensional center.

I don’t care if I’m viewed as biased. The teams still playing right now literally show the blueprint on how to win the Cup. Wild fans are showing they are more interested in doing the exact opposite.

I'm not against trading Rossi for a bigger center, I just also prefer a good small player over a mediocre big player, and most of what I've seen offered in speculation for Rossi is big and mediocre, or skilled and average sized (at best) but also a wing. Neither option is super appealing.
Oh, or a mid-1st and a 3rd. Also not appealing.

 

[AKL]

I’m literally just feeding the same energy people give me right back to them. What does that tell you?

That's one way to look at it lol. Not the correct way, but definitely one way.

 

[DigitalBoldy]

I'm not against trading Rossi for a bigger center, I just also prefer a good small player over a mediocre big player, and most of what I've seen offered in speculation for Rossi is big and mediocre, or skilled and average sized (at best) but also a wing. Neither option is super appealing.
Oh, or a mid-1st and a 3rd. Also not appealing.

I’m not advocating to trade Rossi at all at this point. The evidence is there that we shouldn’t be penciling him in as our 1C or 2C when we are trying to win a Cup. That’s not to say plug Gaudreau in just because he’s bigger, but the emphasis seems to be getting another Eriksson Ek type player. Pageau is decently sized (5’11” 195), plays penalty kill, and has won 55%+ of his draws for the past 6 seasons. He’s not a flashy center, but he makes this team better and harder to play against.

 

[AKL]

This is gross for BUF. It's a downgrade at both positions. BUF doesn't really need any of MN's prospects.

Going from:
Tage/Norris/Tuch
Zucker/McLeod/Peterka
Quinn/Kulich/Greenway
???/Krebs/

to:
Tage/Norris/Tuch
Zucker/Rossi/Quinn
Ohgren/Kulich/Greenway
???/Krebs???

Rossi for Peterka can work (wing for wing swap). Rossi for McLeod doesn't work (center for center swap). Ohgren has no value for BUF they have a bunch of similar prospects in their system.

McLeod is 2 years older than Rossi, but this was his first year not stuck behind McDavid/Drais. So there is that caveat to his first NHL few seasons.

Norris needs to stay healthy, that's the big question mark for BUF's on paper lineup.

I think we should wait to see if Tuch shakes loose. Not sure what it would cost but that would be the best Sabres piece to go after.

 

[Wabit]

I must have been looking at some f***ed up stats then because it showed a sharp decline in granny faceoffs in 15-16. I assumed he moved to wing then

The 15-16 Playoffs had a steep decline. That regular season he took the most FOs of his time in MN. Neither Granny or Coyle were ideal fits at center in MN.

Granny had the skillset of a winger. Okay in the d-zone (for a center), not a great skater, playmaker mindset, perimeter player. It worked okay with Parise as the net front grinder he was and Pommer as a shooter. When Pommer lost his shot or Parise was injured the line fell apart.

Coyle couldn't figure out the mental side of the game to be a consistent player. When he was on he was the best player on the ice for MN. When he was off he was an average 3rd line FWD. Good contract for what he was as a player though.

Haula probably should have been moved up in the lineup sooner, but he didn't fit Yeobot mold.