Player Discussion Marco Rossi

[Dr Jan Itor]

And a selke candidate every year

Hopefully Eriksson Ek has a Blake Wheeler-esque offensive awakening at 29 then.

 

[Sweetnut]

Barkov is also a great dog name.

 

[AKL]

A forwards primary job is still to score

Eriksson Ek started on the 4th line because he was incapable of doing that at Rossi's age

Rossi did work his way up to the first line this season, that's what the last few seasons were

Rossi is much better at the scoring part than Ek is, that's why he's higher in the lineup

If Barkov only scored 50 points, he wouldn't be in the Cup finals and he probably wouldn't be a Selke winner if we're being honest

Centers don't need to all be shutdown defenders, they just need to score more than they get scored on, Rossi did that for the first 60 games of the season

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

If Barkov only scored 50 points, he wouldn't be in the Cup finals and he probably wouldn't be a Selke winner if we're being honest

I forgot about this part. Very true.

 

[Minnewildsota]

A forwards primary job is still to score

Eriksson Ek started on the 4th line because he was incapable of doing that at Rossi's age

Rossi did work his way up to the first line this season, that's what the last few seasons were

Rossi is much better at the scoring part than Ek is, that's why he's higher in the lineup

If Barkov only scored 50 points, he wouldn't be in the Cup finals and he probably wouldn't be a Selke winner if we're being honest

Centers don't need to all be shutdown defenders, they just need to score more than they get scored on, Rossi did that for the first 60 games of the season

By that logic, a defenseman’s primary job is to defend. Cale Makar would be less valuable than Mark Stuart then.

 

[AKL]

By that logic, a defenseman’s primary job is to defend. Cale Makar would be less valuable than Mark Stuart then.

Shit like this is why 98% of your posts are not worth reading

 

[Minnewildsota]

Shit like this is why 98% of your posts are not worth reading

Cool story, bro.

 

[Sweetnut]

I would be happy if anyone thought 2% of my posts is worth reading.
Anyway, Rossi is not my first choice of a shutdown C. But he would be my second choice of an offensive C on this Wild squad.
Just give him some money, Billy.

 

[DigitalBoldy]

And if he was merely that, Florida wouldn't be doing what they're doing. They also didn't draft him 2nd overall to just be that.

Ek is an all situations player. Barkov is an all situations center. Lundell is an all situations center. Bennett likely would be an all situations center if Barkov/Lundell were not on his team. Can we catch onto the theme here? Rossi is not like any of those guys. He’s an offensive center that isn’t trustworthy on the PK or late in games defending leads.

Let’s not use Barkov as an example of an “offensive center” when talking about Rossi. Rossi is substantially worse both offensively and defensively.

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

Bennett likely would be an all situations center if Barkov/Lundell were not on his team.

Rossi likely would be an all situations center if Eriksson Ek wasn't on his team.

 

[AKL]

Ek is an all situations player.

I'm not sure he is. The only reason he's on the PP is because he's big and stands in front of the goalie and takes faceoffs. If we had a real 1C Ek wouldn't be on it.

Also really really worth pointing out that when Bennett was Rossi's age he was neither a PP or SH player.

Also Lundell was 9th in PP TOI/GP this year for FL.

 

[AKL]

I think Rossi being a 2/3 situations player at 23 is fine, I don't see the issue with that.

 

[AKL]

Ek was a 2/3 situations center at Rossi's age too btw

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

I'm not sure he is. The only reason he's on the PP is because he's big and stands in front of the goalie and takes faceoffs. If we had a real 1C Ek wouldn't be on it.

Also really really worth pointing out that when Bennett was Rossi's age he was neither a PP or SH player.

Also Lundell was 9th in PP TOI/GP this year for FL.

Which he's not particularly great at.

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

Ek as an all-situation player...

He plays the least active position on the power play, and doesn't win the o-zone face-off at any special rate. Kevin Stenlund, had we signed him last summer instead of Trenin, might be a better PP asset than Ek.

He features prominently on a penalty kill that is bottom 8 in the league over the last 3 seasons.

 

[AKL]

I'm actually learning a lot right now

Here's a list of centers who don't PK, less than 30 seconds per game

MacKinnon
McDavid
Draisaitl
Scheifele
Barzal
Crosby
Celebrini
Kadri
Stutzle
Point
Thompson
Beniers
Fantilli
Tavares
Couturier
Malkin
Schenn
Dubois
Bennett
Duchene
D Strome
McTavish
Hertl
Zary


Here's a list of centers who PK the most

Jake Evans
Kevin Stenlund
Isac Lundestrom
Nic Dowd
Alex Kerfoot
Jason Dickinson
Noel Acciari

I could go on but I reckon we all get the point by now

 

[AKL]

Ek as an all-situation player...

He plays the least active position on the power play, and doesn't win the o-zone face-off at any special rate. Kevin Stenlund, had we signed him last summer instead of Trenin, might be a better PP asset than Ek.

He features prominently on a penalty kill that is bottom 8 in the league over the last 3 seasons.

Trying to formulate my thoughts without disparaging Ek too much, because he is a good player, I like him on this team. But he's also a very limited player. Truly lacks the offensive tools and creativity to be a true top six forward, probably too effective at hockey to be a true third liner though. Trying to fit him in is tough.

Ideally he probably fits perfectly as a 2C behind MacKinnon, who is miles better than your average 1C offensively. Surround him with solid two way second line wingers and it's a good support line behind a first line that scores a lot. Can chip in offense enough to win games, but shouldn't be relied on to do so, which is fine, because that's what MacKinnon is for.

But with a 1C like Larkin, I'm not sure you can rely on him enough to make up for the fact that Larkin isn't MacKinnon.

And he really shouldn't be playing with guys like Kaprizov and Boldy at even strength. Just doesn't have the tools to keep up with them in the offensive zone.

I'd also have him as a PP2 net front guy still. He is good at that. But like we've touched on, lacks the creativity to really elevate a PP, and doesn't win faceoffs at any special rate.

He could definitely be a PK forward, though his 35ish% faceoffs on the PK isn't what you'd like from a PK center.

 

[Sweetnut]

Imagine getting Stenlund at approx 2,5 mil/year instead of Treniyawn at 3.5.

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

Trying to formulate my thoughts without disparaging Ek too much, because he is a good player, I like him on this team. But he's also a very limited player. Truly lacks the offensive tools and creativity to be a true top six forward, probably too effective at hockey to be a true third liner though. Trying to fit him in is tough.

Ideally he probably fits perfectly as a 2C behind MacKinnon, who is miles better than your average 1C offensively. Surround him with solid two way second line wingers and it's a good support line behind a first line that scores a lot. Can chip in offense enough to win games, but shouldn't be relied on to do so, which is fine, because that's what MacKinnon is for.

But with a 1C like Larkin, I'm not sure you can rely on him enough to make up for the fact that Larkin isn't MacKinnon.

And he really shouldn't be playing with guys like Kaprizov and Boldy at even strength. Just doesn't have the tools to keep up with them in the offensive zone.

I'd also have him as a PP2 net front guy still. He is good at that. But like we've touched on, lacks the creativity to really elevate a PP, and doesn't win faceoffs at any special rate.

He could definitely be a PK forward, though his 35ish% faceoffs on the PK isn't what you'd like from a PK center.

If we want to stay with current events, sounds like an excellent Bennett to a Barkov.

 

[Sweetnut]

Stenlund only won 59.1% of his faceoffs.
And scored 14+14 as a fourth liner.

 

[AKL]

If we want to stay with current events, sounds like an excellent Bennett to a Barkov.

Yeah probably.

Fun fact though, Sam Bennett doesn't PK, so I'm not sure where the idea that he's an all situations center comes from.

 

[AKL]

Another thing that's interesting to think about, how would these conversations be different now had Kaprizov stayed healthy the entire year, and Rossi got to play PP1 where he probably should have been?

I've seen it pointed out that Rossi got 60 points on the first line, and so did Eriksson Ek the last two seasons, but it's not exactly a 1:1 comparison.

Rossi played less than half a season with Kaprizov, and was limited as far as PP time with him goes.

Eriksson Ek played all season with Kaprizov and on PP1 with him.

If Rossi could have gotten a full season with Kaprizov last year, as well as PP1 time all year with him, I think we're looking at 75-80 points out of Rossi. I think the conversation would be much different then.

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

Yeah probably.

Fun fact though, Sam Bennett doesn't PK, so I'm not sure where the idea that he's an all situations center comes from.

He probably plays in the 1st period, and then in the 3rd period. Possibly in OT too. Not sure if he shootouts.

 

[AKL]

He probably plays in the 1st period, and then in the 3rd period. Possibly in OT too. Not sure if he shootouts.

Sam Bennett is 0/4 lifetime in shootouts

 

[AKL]

It's also weird to me that most of Rossi's detractors seem to be discussing under the assumption that he is a finished product and can't improve at all from here, which is even more weird when you consider a lot of the other players we're bringing up and comparing to are in their prime, their late 20s, and weren't finished products at 23 either.