Player Discussion Marco Rossi

[DigitalBoldy]

For someone who makes a big deal about people not proving you wrong, you sure do make only assumptions and never prove yourself right

Which part are you referring to?

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

Well, actually I called Rossi’s camp stupid… But you do kind of just assume the “Rossi’s side is correct about everything” line of thinking, so I could see how you would interpret that as me insulting you.

I think your only argument for 2C on a contender is Carolina, but you missed the part where Carolina is already undersized and was bullied by Florida. Do you think Rossi is changing that outcome for Carolina?

Rossi was on the 1st PP for half of this past season.
You’re right, Bennett isn’t on the top PP or PK, but he’s a playoff freak and this team could use a playoff freak. He has almost 1/3 of Rossi’s point total just in the playoffs. He has 48 points in his last 58 playoff games and he 100% can be relied upon in all situations.

You’re exaggerating my point. We don’t need a McDavid at center, but we absolutely do need someone like Hintz or Lundell.

Coronato in his 22 year old season put up 47 points with Backlund and Coleman being the other two forwards on his most common line. Rossi put up 40 points with Kaprizov and Zucc as his most common line. Coronato is probably putting up 70+ with half a season of Kaprizov and a mixed bag of Boldy/Johansson/Zucc/Foligno/Hartman.

Actually you said "but I don't want to be stupid about what he is as a player and what he should be paid." He is asking for 7 x $7M. This is 100% you saying that anybody ok with 7 x $7M is "being stupid about what he is as a player and what he should be paid".

I don't think they're correct about everything. I agree with them that this is currently market value for his services on a long-term deal. I don't think there is any rush for Rossi to buckle on a bridge deal at this point in time, before seeing if there are any offer sheets coming his way. Is it any better to be in the "Guerin's side is correct about everything"? Or are we both actually neither of these things?

I don't think Rossi changes anything for Carolina. I do think he plays 2C for a team that made the ECF. What f***ed Carolina was Rantanen bailing, or even trading for him in the first place.

Bennett is also 29, in his 10th NHL season and his 9 NHL playoffs. Just remember that you're the one putting the hard ceiling on Rossi at 23 years old without much in the way of explanation for it.

Hintz is the 1C on a "non-contender". Woop-di-do. That's not what we're trying to build, are we? Lol at Lundell being being in the conversation as a solution. We want to be a contender, right? Who are the most important players (that we don't have) on the only 2 contenders in the league this year? McDavid, Draisaitl and Barkov. How about last year? The same. The year before? Eichel and Barkov. Until that problem is solved, any other issue is just noise. I'm all eyes to see plan for bringing in a Hintz-type though, if you've got one.

Anyway, I still like my compromise from a couple days ago, even though neither side would probably do it.

 

[Minnewildsota]

Love JEE, but he had 29 points in his age 23 season. 30 the next year. Marco had 60. I'd like both on my team, until that mythical do all elite #1C shows up to make them both redundant.

BTW, JEE had 29 pts this season, also. Points aren't everything, but hockey games are won by the team that scores the most goals. To blithely trade away the highest scoring young C we have ever had because he is too short is one of the stupidest things i have heard of, especially on a team where the alternatives scored 29(JEE), 26(Hartman), 37(Gaudreau).

The problem with that is…

Even though Ek scored less, he was a +9 in the regular season with half the amount of games played, where Rossi was a +3.

So, Ek had a better effect on the team than Rossi did. You know, since it’s not all about points. Rossi is basically a net neutral for the team.

 

[DANOZ28]

JEE is a very good player and i believe he is underpaid. rossi is completely different. both good! ps if you can't score goals you can't win the game , zero goals zero wins.

 

[Arturia Pendragon]

I think regardless of if you think he can be a 2C on a contender, you’d have to agree that given the speculated offers and available players in free agency the best option would be to sign him and move him at a better time, ideally in a package for the next real 1C that comes available.

Couldn’t agree more.

 

[DigitalBoldy]

Actually you said "but I don't want to be stupid about what he is as a player and what he should be paid." He is asking for 7 x $7M. This is 100% you saying that anybody ok with 7 x $7M is "being stupid about what he is as a player and what he should be paid".

I don't think they're correct about everything. I agree with them that this is currently market value for his services on a long-term deal. I don't think there is any rush for Rossi to buckle on a bridge deal at this point in time, before seeing if there are any offer sheets coming his way. Is it any better to be in the "Guerin's side is correct about everything"? Or are we both actually neither of these things?

I don't think Rossi changes anything for Carolina. I do think he plays 2C for a team that made the ECF. What f***ed Carolina was Rantanen bailing, or even trading for him in the first place.

Bennett is also 29, in his 10th NHL season and his 9 NHL playoffs. Just remember that you're the one putting the hard ceiling on Rossi at 23 years old without much in the way of explanation for it.

Hintz is the 1C on a "non-contender". Woop-di-do. That's not what we're trying to build, are we? Lol at Lundell being being in the conversation as a solution. We want to be a contender, right? Who are the most important players (that we don't have) on the only 2 contenders in the league this year? McDavid, Draisaitl and Barkov. How about last year? The same. The year before? Eichel and Barkov. Until that problem is solved, any other issue is just noise. I'm all eyes to see plan for bringing in a Hintz-type though, if you've got one.

Anyway, I still like my compromise from a couple days ago, even though neither side would probably do it.

Rossi’s camp thinks they can force 7x7 because he put up 60 points playing 1C and half a season of top PP. They’re trying to force it, with his agent publicly stating that a bridge deal is not an option, because they view this as their shot to get big money and that might go away next season when Rossi isn’t in such a big role out of necessity due to an Eriksson Ek injury… If you think it’s smart to sign 7x7, I guess that’s your opinion.

I’ve put myself in every range spot from 6x6 to a 1 year prove it (let’s say $4.5M). If that’s the “Guerin is correct about everything” camp, then yeah I’m in that camp.

So, Carolina has a bad 2C for the playoffs right now, but still made it to the ECF and are considered a contender as a result. Rossi has been inserted at 2C, where the bad playoff 2C was, in this hypothetical and nothing changes. We are so close lol.

We can point to Rossi being 23, but I’ve yet to have someone point to a part of Rossi’s game that will dramatically improve. I think he is a physically limited player, that he is near the top of his physical limits, and most of his game is just average 2nd/3rd line tweener level (hint: this is why Rossi’s camp is hard pressed to get the big bucks now). Point me to a defining part of his game that can improve to a much higher level than what it currently is at.

 

[MNRube]

The problem with that is…

Even though Ek scored less, he was a +9 in the regular season with half the amount of games played, where Rossi was a +3.

So, Ek had a better effect on the team than Rossi did. You know, since it’s not all about points. Rossi is basically a net neutral for the team.

100%. The “he had 29 points” part is so disingenuous. He paced for over 50 in a down year with a shooting % that was basically half of Rossi’s. Do we really think Rossi is shooting 17% the rest of his career?
When Ek was Rossi’s age he was playing bottom 6 minutes and doing everything asked of him and more. Guy is a complete warrior.

Rossi is skilled but leaves a lot to be desired from an intensity standpoint. He’s coming off a season with unsustainable SH % on a team with a lot of injuries. You see it every year on bad teams. Always a few guys who put up 50-70 points. With our injuries, Rossi was that guy.

Just because he produces like Boldy & Ek does not mean he should be paid or deployed like them. It’s clear that they are the superior players. Rossi could keep improving, and that’s why I am ok with a bridge or a team-friendly longterm extension. But he’s infinitely more risky than either of those guys. To pretend otherwise is delusional

 

[DANOZ28]

most contenders have 5 - 20 plus goal scorers. why get rid of one? (unless you have a sure fire prospect ready to take his place.)

 

[MNRube]

most contenders have 5 - 20 plus goal scorers. why get rid of one? (unless you have a sure fire prospect ready to take his place.)

Boldy, Ek, Kaprizov, Hartman, Ohgren, Yurov, $7M UFA, Rossi trade return. Plenty of guys capable of chipping in 20.

I’m OK with taking a slight hit on Rossi’s return if it ensures we have a deep lineup with no pushovers. We already have Zucc. Florida only really had Rodriguez and even he is feistier than Rossi. Winnipeg has two - Connor and Ehlers but both are Top 20 wingers. I want a team that’s big, deep and hard to play against. Those teams do well in the playoffs.

It’s also worth noting that our blueline trends small. Faber, Brodin and Buium is a small core. Spurgeon is tiny. None of them are physical.

Having Rossi and Zucc makes that a bigger problem and leads to overpaying guys like Trenin and overusing guys like Bogosian to try and add beef to a lineup that’s generally soft and lacking in sandpaper.

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

Rossi’s camp thinks they can force 7x7 because he put up 60 points playing 1C and half a season of top PP. They’re trying to force it, with his agent publicly stating that a bridge deal is not an option, because they view this as their shot to get big money and that might go away next season when Rossi isn’t in such a big role out of necessity due to an Eriksson Ek injury… If you think it’s smart to sign 7x7, I guess that’s your opinion.

I’ve put myself in every range spot from 6x6 to a 1 year prove it (let’s say $4.5M). If that’s the “Guerin is correct about everything” camp, then yeah I’m in that camp.

So, Carolina has a bad 2C for the playoffs right now, but still made it to the ECF and are considered a contender as a result. Rossi has been inserted at 2C, where the bad playoff 2C was, in this hypothetical and nothing changes. We are so close lol.

We can point to Rossi being 23, but I’ve yet to have someone point to a part of Rossi’s game that will dramatically improve. I think he is a physically limited player, that he is near the top of his physical limits, and most of his game is just average 2nd/3rd line tweener level (hint: this is why Rossi’s camp is hard pressed to get the big bucks now). Point me to a defining part of his game that can improve to a much higher level than what it currently is at.

I think it's smart to keep the player, game-changing trade aside. After that, I am asking myself if 7 x $7M is out of line with what I would be asking him to do (it's not).

If you're cool with 6 x $6M and I'm cool with 7 x $7M, I do find it kind of amusing that all this consternation is over $1M per year. I get that everybody "overpaid" by $1M eventually adds up, but still kind of funny.

The "physically limited player" and "near the top of his physical limits" are just longer ways to say 'short'. I've stopped pretending it isn't about height a while ago, and have said multiple times that if he was 5'11" he'd probably have his contract by now. I still believe that.

I don't think an aspect of his game needs to "dramatically improve" or "reach a much higher level" to be comfortable with 7 x $7M. Do I want to see continued improvement that comes with age and experience? You bet I do.

Just for conversation's sake, what do you think is the defining/top end part of Jake Guentzel's game?

 

[57special]

Serious question: Do you think Rossi is better than Lundell?

Different. I like them both. Lundell is better defensively, and is a far better skater than the "draft experts" said during his draft year. Rossi is worse defensively, but has always been a better scorer than Lundell. You need both types on a good team. It would be great if we had a #1C with few or no flaws, but that's not where we are.

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

Having Rossi and Zucc makes that a bigger problem and leads to overpaying guys like Trenin and overusing guys like Bogosian to try and add beef to a lineup that’s generally soft and lacking in sandpaper.

Luckily Rossi is 23 and Zucc is 37 so having both of them won't be a problem for much of the rest of Rossi's prime/20's.

 

[KaprizovSaveUs]

Lundell is a better player than Rossi and could even scratch the O’Rielly tier at some point in his career, but just because he’s on a stupid good contract doesn’t mean Rossi isn’t worth 7x7. I get starting with the Lundell deal (though it should’ve been market adjusted), selling the whole “take less to be on a good team thing”, but when Rossi wasn’t about it I didn’t like that they self destructed the relationship.

 

[AKL]

The problem with that is…

Even though Ek scored less, he was a +9 in the regular season with half the amount of games played, where Rossi was a +3.

So, Ek had a better effect on the team than Rossi did. You know, since it’s not all about points. Rossi is basically a net neutral for the team.

Up until Feb 22 when Ek got injured, Rossi was a +17 and Ek was +5

Then the entire team took a nosedive.
Boldy was a -9 during that stretch and finished at +1.

So it seems Rossi is more of a net positive than Boldy is, based on your logic.

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

Honestly, even if you're in the anti-Rossi crowd, the smart thing would be to get him signed, play with Kaprizov and Boldy to keep his value up, and be constantly on the lookout for a trade. Probably worst case, he's does what he did for the first 60 games last year (65+ points). Better case, he continues to get better with age and experience and maybe starts to stare down the PPG mark.

You still have ~$7M to find somebody to play with Eriksson Ek and Zuccarello/Hartman (as long as he's playoff Hartman, and not suspended Hartman) on the 2nd line. And then the bottom 6 is the mix of proper roles (Foligno, Trenin, Gaudreau), young blood (Ohgren, Yurov), and Zuccarello/Hartman/Johansson.

 

[AKL]

Honestly, even if you're in the anti-Rossi crowd, the smart thing would be to get him signed, play with Kaprizov and Boldy to keep his value up, and be constantly on the lookout for a trade. Probably worst case, he's does what he did for the first 60 games last year (65+ points). Better case, he continues to get better with age and experience and maybe starts to stare down the PPG mark.

You still have ~$7M to find somebody to play with Eriksson Ek and Zuccarello/Hartman (as long as he's playoff Hartman, and not suspended Hartman) on the 2nd line. And then the bottom 6 is the mix of proper roles (Foligno, Trenin, Gaudreau), young blood (Ohgren, Yurov), and Zuccarello/Hartman/Johansson.

This is where me and @KaprizovSaveUs are at. Unless you find a trade like the Eichel deal this summer, keep him around for whenever you do.

Just makes no sense to trade him for a downgrade when he's asking for a fair contract that'll be very tradeable moving forward.

 

[Minnewildsota]

Up until Feb 22 when Ek got injured, Rossi was a +17 and Ek was +5

Then the entire team took a nosedive.
Boldy was a -9 during that stretch and finished at +1.

So it seems Rossi is more of a net positive than Boldy is, based on your logic.

I guess it depends on how you look at it.

Was Rossi driving play? I'd have at to look at his line mates after Kap and Ek went out, but wouldn't the sharp decline point more to Rossi was more of a passenger? This is assuming he played a majority of his TOI with Kap before Kap's injury.
When not playing with Kap (assumed) Rossi is then a -14

Anyway, I just don't see Rossi as a center you go on a deep playoff push with. It's my personal opinion and nobody will change that. Is he a good player? Sure but Again, I just don't think you hitch your cart to him at 7x7, which seems to be his asking price (?).

 

[AKL]

I guess it depends on how you look at it.

Was Rossi driving play? I'd have at to look at his line mates after Kap and Ek went out, but wouldn't the sharp decline point more to Rossi was more of a passenger? This is assuming he played a majority of his TOI with Kap before Kap's injury.
When not playing with Kap (assumed) Rossi is then a -14

Anyway, I just don't see Rossi as a center you go on a deep playoff push with. It's my personal opinion and nobody will change that. Is he a good player? Sure but Again, I just don't think you hitch your cart to him at 7x7, which seems to be his asking price (?).

Is Boldy not a driver at -9 during that time?

Do you not think if Rossi missed that time and it was up to Ek, the same thing would have happened to his +/-?

 

[MNRube]

Luckily Rossi is 23 and Zucc is 37 so having both of them won't be a problem for much of the rest of Rossi's prime/20's.

Yes. Thankfully only one more year. Like to see Zucc play about 60 games and take a backseat 5v5. Maybe swap him and Mojo in and out of the lineup to keep them fresh.

Excited to see what PP2 looks like next year. Should have significantly more firepower

PP1: Kap, Ek, Boldy, Zucc, Buium

PP2: Rossi/Rossi trade return, Hartman, Yurov/Ohgren, $7M UFA, Faber

 

[Minnewildsota]

Honestly, even if you're in the anti-Rossi crowd, the smart thing would be to get him signed, play with Kaprizov and Boldy to keep his value up, and be constantly on the lookout for a trade. Probably worst case, he's does what he did for the first 60 games last year (65+ points). Better case, he continues to get better with age and experience and maybe starts to stare down the PPG mark.

You still have ~$7M to find somebody to play with Eriksson Ek and Zuccarello/Hartman (as long as he's playoff Hartman, and not suspended Hartman) on the 2nd line. And then the bottom 6 is the mix of proper roles (Foligno, Trenin, Gaudreau), young blood (Ohgren, Yurov), and Zuccarello/Hartman/Johansson.

Honest question, if they sign him for 7x7 do you think that will be a benefit or a hindrance for most teams to trade for him?

By the sounds of it, Philly didn't/doesn't want to pay him that much. It's one team, but you have to wonder how other teams view him.
But it sounds like Vancouver might be excited at the thought of acquiring him - seems to be a pretty polarizing player?

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

And, by the by, if the thought is to get what we can for Rossi and keep the space open for 2026: it's McDavid and Eichel, and that is absolutely it as far as center solutions in UFA. Next best is Boone Jenner. And I'd bet quite a bit that both don't make it much into July this year before pen to paper.

 

[Minnewildsota]

Is Boldy not a driver at -9 during that time?

Do you not think if Rossi missed that time and it was up to Ek, the same thing would have happened to his +/-?

I, personally, believe if Rossi was hurt and Ek was healthy people's +/-'s wouldn't have nosedived. It's complete speculation and I have no proof for it. Just a gut feeling.

 

[Minnewildsota]

And, by the by, if the thought is to get what we can for Rossi and keep the space open for 2026: it's McDavid and Eichel, and that is absolutely it as far as center solutions in UFA. Next best is Boone Jenner. And I'd bet quite a bit that both don't make it much into July this year before pen to paper.

I HIGHLY doubt McDavid makes it to FA.

I COULD see Eichel making it to FA, it depends on how Vegas is with their salary at the time. Not saying it's likely, but I COULD see him being a FA>

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

Honest question, if they sign him for 7x7 do you think that will be a benefit or a hindrance for most teams to trade for him?

By the sounds of it, Philly didn't/doesn't want to pay him that much. It's one team, but you have to wonder how other teams view him.
But it sounds like Vancouver might be excited at the thought of acquiring him - seems to be a pretty polarizing player?

Signing him today, and trying to trade him tomorrow, I don't think much changes vs. trading him unsigned today.

At the 2026 TDL when Rossi is on his way to ~30 goals or ~70 points (or maybe better), where he was heading as of the end of February this year, is very possibly a different story.

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

I HIGHLY doubt McDavid makes it to FA.

I COULD see Eichel making it to FA, it depends on how Vegas is with their salary at the time. Not saying it's likely, but I COULD see him being a FA>

I think you'd have to be betting on the 10% though.

They'll do something with Karlsson to make sure they can keep Eichel around. Stone comes off in a year, and if there's no Eichel too, it's basically Hertl and a whole bunch of 'meh'.