Player Discussion Marco Rossi
- Thread starter TaLoN
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How many teams in the league meet this qualification? I mean only ~half the teams have a PPG 1C?
Dr Jan Itor
Registered User
So your theory kind of suggests rossi will never improve throughout his contract or career? He just is what he is now and will always be that thing?
Please do.
If you watched Carolina get bullied by Florida and your first thought was, “Marco Rossi would solve their problems and make them a Cup contender”… That is a hilarious take
Your argument is “if the 1C and 3C do all the heavy lifting, then yeah he’d be fine at 2C on a contender.” That should be a damning statement, but somehow you’ve twisted it to be a positive.
Separate Rossi from the following question: What’s the going rate for a below average 2C or upper end 3C on a contender?
I somewhat agree that Rossi himself isn’t a top 6 C that’s going to take you over the top.Please do.
If you watched Carolina get bullied by Florida and your first thought was, “Marco Rossi would solve their problems and make them a Cup contender”… That is a hilarious take
Your argument is “if the 1C and 3C do all the heavy lifting, then yeah he’d be fine at 2C on a contender.” That should be a damning statement, but somehow you’ve twisted it to be a positive.
Separate Rossi from the following question: What’s the going rate for a below average 2C or upper end 3C on a contender?
I do think he’s a player who will not impede you if he’s given two good wings to play with…. ie not marjo or zucc level players,
I think Rossi is a 6.5-7M player and he isn’t anywhere near our biggest issue. Also we have no remotely conceivable path to upgrade him. If we can sign him to 5x6m then he will be a bargain if he maintains what he is now and an absolute steal if he improves at all. He would be easy to trade for whatever we want if he is showcased and treated properly.
You don't form a band with 5 lead guitar players. You need a drummer, Bass player, rhythm and lead player, vocalist, maybe some horns or keys.
Same with a hockey team. They can't all be 6'3", physical players with great skill, speed, and defensive skills. You get a balance of skill, brawn, defense, speed. Rossi is one of those players who has the very valuable ability to get on the scoresheet. He had it junior, in the AHL, and is now showing it in the NHL in only his 2nd season. Throwing that away is ridiculous, especially given that he is only 23 yo and is likely to improve upon his 60 pt. season.
Same with a hockey team. They can't all be 6'3", physical players with great skill, speed, and defensive skills. You get a balance of skill, brawn, defense, speed. Rossi is one of those players who has the very valuable ability to get on the scoresheet. He had it junior, in the AHL, and is now showing it in the NHL in only his 2nd season. Throwing that away is ridiculous, especially given that he is only 23 yo and is likely to improve upon his 60 pt. season.
Dr Jan Itor
Registered User
Only 2 contenders exist per year, got it. I think that's pretty stupid, but I now understand that you think it.Please do.
If you watched Carolina get bullied by Florida and your first thought was, “Marco Rossi would solve their problems and make them a Cup contender”… That is a hilarious take
Your argument is “if the 1C and 3C do all the heavy lifting, then yeah he’d be fine at 2C on a contender.” That should be a damning statement, but somehow you’ve twisted it to be a positive.
Separate Rossi from the following question: What’s the going rate for a below average 2C or upper end 3C on a contender?
My argument is, if he's properly slotted as a real 2C, then he's fine. It's kind of not really a positive or negative, just a statement. Just like if any other player is properly slotted and paid.
I will indulge and say that I would have a below average 2C/upper end 3C probably in the ~$5.75M to ~$6.5M range with a $95.5M salary cap. Fine 2C's would be in the ~$6.5M to ~$8M range. I'm going to ignore the "on a contender" part since I don't agree that there's only 2 of them, and that's unnecessarily narrowing the conversation, IMO.
These are just off the cuff though. Ideally, I'd like to see some more signings on a known $95.5M salary cap, especially similar situation players. As far as I can recall, we only really have Coronato, Cates and Nelson so far. Individiually, not great comps for Rossi. Taken as group, can kind of start to form a ballpark idea.
DANOZ28
Registered User
while a team needs some size i just don't understand why there isn't a place for rossi. i'd be trading zuccy & spurgeon before even thinking about losing rossi. give him 6 mill for 7 years max
We don’t have people in here seriously suggesting Rossi is a better center and should play higher up the lineup than JEE?
Sure, Rossi could be a 2C. But your team damn well better be employing 2nd line wings that are better players than Rossi, a top line center who is a PPG+ player, and a third line center who can handle heavy match ups if you plan to win at a high level…
It’s almost like there is a reason that the team doesn’t see Rossi as a viable long term solution.
Sure, Rossi could be a 2C. But your team damn well better be employing 2nd line wings that are better players than Rossi, a top line center who is a PPG+ player, and a third line center who can handle heavy match ups if you plan to win at a high level…
It’s almost like there is a reason that the team doesn’t see Rossi as a viable long term solution.
Love JEE, but he had 29 points in his age 23 season. 30 the next year. Marco had 60. I'd like both on my team, until that mythical do all elite #1C shows up to make them both redundant.
BTW, JEE had 29 pts this season, also. Points aren't everything, but hockey games are won by the team that scores the most goals. To blithely trade away the highest scoring young C we have ever had because he is too short is one of the stupidest things i have heard of, especially on a team where the alternatives scored 29(JEE), 26(Hartman), 37(Gaudreau).
Can you honestly say that Carolina looked like a contender? They got the full belt to ass whoopin’ in the conference finals. Same with Dallas - and they had three centers better than Rossi. You can insult me all you want, but Florida and Edmonton are way better than everyone else.
On the average team, he’s an average 2C. Sure. But the goal is to win the Cup, not be like everyone else.
It’s only unnecessary if you want this team to be average. He’s not a “fine 2C” to serious teams. Most playoff team 2Cs serve a primary role on the power play and/or the penalty kill. Rossi does neither. Most playoff 2Cs can be relied upon in all situations. Sorry to break it to you, Rossi isn’t that guy.
I think it’s interesting that you keep bringing Coronato up, but never seem to consider that Coronato might project to be a better player.
KaprizovSaveUs
KaprizovResignWithUs (he will...)
- May 2, 2018
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I think regardless of if you think he can be a 2C on a contender, you’d have to agree that given the speculated offers and available players in free agency the best option would be to sign him and move him at a better time, ideally in a package for the next real 1C that comes available.
Let’s assume for a moment that you are correct. How are you going to address our biggest need, which is the center position, this off-season? What are you gonna do, realistically, to make it better?
At a certain point logic and actually watching the game should take over. There are likely minuscule people involved in NHL teams that are taking Rossi over YEE now or into the future.
I’ve never argued that this front office has done a favorable job managing the asset. However, I wholeheartedly agree with them that Rossi isn’t part of some sort of solution on this roster.
What should have been the goal moving into the offseason is packaging the player and additional quality pieces to get a higher level player. A package like Rossi, Brodin, and something like Ohgren (or a pick) is something that returns near the best player moved every season. That’s what I would have liked seen done and then focus on filling out the roster. Maybe that still happens, we’ll see.
In my view, signing Rossi to something that his camp is looking for is as big of a blunder as moving him as a depressed asset. Especially if he is going to refuse any sort of bridge. Signing him to something like a 7x7, knowing that this team will still be looking for a clear upgrade on him and may well be eyeing Yurov to get some of those minutes this year puts them in a situation where you are stuck with a 2nd/3rd line tweener that you are committed to at that level. Having to dump that player/deal after he’s not producing at the mythical 60pt center level any longer likely returns nowhere near what we are seeing today.
Dr Jan Itor
Registered User
You called us stupid first. And yes, I think the teams that make it to the Conference Finals are contenders. Even a couple teams out in the 2nd round, depending on how the series go.
Rossi is on the 1st PP when the infatuation with Zuccarello ends, simple as that. And, by the way, Sam Bennett is on the 2nd PP unit and doesn't PK.
You're saying we need to build a team that has McDavids, Draisaitls and/or Barkovs. Cool. Be my guest and go find them. If you're using Rossi to do it, I'm completely open to it.
I'm not really considering Coronato projecting to be a better player, because I think that would have to be one hell of a player. Feel free to make the case, though.
Immediately this offseason and assuming some level of realistic? Sign Rossi for no more than 3 years and work Yurov into the top 6 role as he progresses. Trade Rossi once Yurov takes over and/or their is a high end center available via trade.
If you want real long term change to the status quo, I would add whatever we need to add to get #4 from Utah. Select one of Misa/Hagens/Frondell/Desnoyers. Then work extra hard to convince one of Tavares/Duchene/Bennett to sign and take over one of the top 6 center roles.
The point of this argument is to not give Rossi a fat long term contract because he doesn’t fit the top 6 center role for a team serious about winning the Cup.
Since I can't participate anymore in the thread on the main board, I figured I come here and try to answer your question. The way Utah used Ian Cole last season, I really like Romanov to replace him, don't see anyone on the Wild that would make sense for Utah. GMBA said that he would listen to offers for the 4th OA and the "insiders" say they are shopping it. The Wild would not pay what it would take to acquire the 4th overall anyways. The Islanders might, but they would need to involve a 3rd team to make it work.
If the Wild were negotiating a trade with Utah involving Rossi, I could see the ask would start with Hayton...
Dr Jan Itor
Registered User
The disconnect basically boils down to this: the team doesn't want to give him 7 x $7M because they want to easily be able to move him out of the top 6 when they want to (they also might want to create an extremely valuable asset). The people here that are fine with 7 x $7M, are fine keeping him in the top 6, because that's where he played for most of the season, and where he produced extremely well for much of that time.
I still find it funny that for a while it was "they just don't want to pay him more than Boldy", until the 5 x $5M came out.
- Dec 10, 2012
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Hayton doesn't make us better now or in the future, and adding fluff on top doesn't help.
Let's get a little creative here and build a deal around 4, Iginla or But, at least there's a chance that might end up being good for us.
Well, actually I called Rossi’s camp stupid… But you do kind of just assume the “Rossi’s side is correct about everything” line of thinking, so I could see how you would interpret that as me insulting you.
I think your only argument for 2C on a contender is Carolina, but you missed the part where Carolina is already undersized and was bullied by Florida. Do you think Rossi is changing that outcome for Carolina?
Rossi was on the 1st PP for half of this past season.
You’re right, Bennett isn’t on the top PP or PK, but he’s a playoff freak and this team could use a playoff freak. He has almost 1/3 of Rossi’s point total just in the playoffs. He has 48 points in his last 58 playoff games and he 100% can be relied upon in all situations.
You’re exaggerating my point. We don’t need a McDavid at center, but we absolutely do need someone like Hintz or Lundell.
Coronato in his 22 year old season put up 47 points with Backlund and Coleman being the other two forwards on his most common line. Rossi put up 40 points with Kaprizov and Zucc as his most common line. Coronato is probably putting up 70+ with half a season of Kaprizov and a mixed bag of Boldy/Johansson/Zucc/Foligno/Hartman.
- Dec 10, 2012
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For someone who makes a big deal about people not proving you wrong, you sure do make only assumptions and never prove yourself right
We need forwards that are better than Rossi. Usually, the only way to get a top 6 center is through the draft and that’s why the 4th overall pick was of interest. Doubt that Hayton would be of interest. I’d pay just about anything not named Kaprizov or Boldy for Dylan Guenther though.
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