Player Discussion Marco Rossi

[Spurgeon]

Durzi is not at all a Guerin type player. He has nowhere near Spurgeon's defensive abilities.

Trading Rossi for a Dman would be crazy. This team desperately needs good forwards, not Dmen.

I agree.

 

[Luceni]

July 1st

Comp isn't set yet as far as I know, but based on this season it was:

$4,580,917 - $6,871,374 = 1st, 3rd
$6,871,374 - $9,161,834 = 1st, 2nd, 3rd
$9,161,834 - $11,452,294 = 1st, 1st, 2nd, 3rd

So those dollar values will go up this summer

Let's say those numbers will rise in the summer about 500k each, so we're looking at:

$5,180,917 - $7,371,374 = 1st, 3rd
$7,371,374 - $9,661,834 = 1st, 2nd, 3rd
$9,661,834 - $11,952,294 = 1st, 1st, 2nd, 3rd

I'm not gonna lie, but I see a few of franchises who'd rather offersheet Rossi for a 1st & 3rd round pick in the 5,1M to 7,3M range than offer players in return via trade. That RFA status's gonna make it very tricky for Guerin to trade Rossi for a decent return but that's something Guerin has known for a long time.

It's just horrible assessment management by Guerin. The question is why would you draft an undersized center in the first place, when you don't want to have him on the team long term even if he has improved every year.

 

[north21]

It's just horrible assessment management by Guerin. The question is why would you draft an undersized center in the first place, when you don't want to have him on the team long term even if he has improved every year.

That is the big question? Why draft him, or was the plan all along to wait until he turned into a quality nhl player then trade him? It's just a strange situation. Almost any team would and should be looking for a young 60pt center and we want to get rid of ours.

 

[57special]

Let's say those numbers will rise in the summer about 500k each, so we're looking at:

$5,180,917 - $7,371,374 = 1st, 3rd
$7,371,374 - $9,661,834 = 1st, 2nd, 3rd
$9,661,834 - $11,952,294 = 1st, 1st, 2nd, 3rd

I'm not gonna lie, but I see a few of franchises who'd rather offersheet Rossi for a 1st & 3rd round pick in the 5,1M to 7,3M range than offer players in return via trade. That RFA status's gonna make it very tricky for Guerin to trade Rossi for a decent return but that's something Guerin has known for a long time.

It's just horrible assessment management by Guerin. The question is why would you draft an undersized center in the first place, when you don't want to have him on the team long term even if he has improved every year.

For a non lottery team, trading a mid to later round 1st and 3rd for a young C that you can plug right into your lineup seems like a no brainer.

The offer sheet would involve 2026 picks, I think.

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

That is the big question? Why draft him, or was the plan all along to wait until he turned into a quality nhl player then trade him? It's just a strange situation. Almost any team would and should be looking for a young 60pt center and we want to get rid of ours.

I think it's possible that Guerin has preferred bigger centers all along (at least not sub 5'11" or something).

2020 was Brackett's first draft with us, and I believe one of the reason's he left Vancouver was not having autonomy on the draft and being "meddled with". Maybe, and it's just a maybe, Guerin was never in on the pick but felt like he had to sit on his hands during that pick.

Just a thought.

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

For a non lottery team, trading a mid to later round 1st and 3rd for a young C that you can plug right into your lineup seems like a no brainer.

The offer sheet would involve 2026 picks, I think.

Unprotected 2026 picks, which will cross a lot of teams off in a McKenna draft, especially after seeing the big jump in action this year.

 

[KaprizovSaveUs]

I think it's possible that Guerin has preferred bigger centers all along (at least not sub 5'11" or something).

2020 was Brackett's first draft with us, and I believe one of the reason's he left Vancouver was not having autonomy on the draft and being "meddled with". Maybe, and it's just a maybe, Guerin was never in on the pick but felt like he had to sit on his hands during that pick.

Just a thought.

Maybe, but you can let Brackett have autonomy with some gaurd rails. It was Guerin’s first draft too.

 

[Luceni]

Unprotected 2026 picks, which will cross a lot of teams off in a McKenna draft, especially after seeing the big jump in action this year.

It's classic hfboards right there: We overvalue draft picks on these boards. It's hardly ever a 23 year old, proven 60pt scorer becomes available in this league. A first round pick & a third round pick is a no-brainer imo.

Only a handful of teams really think they gonna have a shot at McKenna, they'll tank hard for him. Cant't see any of the current playoff-teams and a few others to tank that hard.

KcKenna could still become a Lafreniere or Byfield kinda bust even if the chances are pretty slim.

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

It's classic hfboards right there: We overvalue draft picks on these boards. It's hardly ever a 23 year old, proven 60pt scorer becomes available in this league. A first round pick & a third round pick is a no-brainer imo.

Only a handful of teams really think they gonna have a shot at McKenna, they'll tank hard for him. Cant't see any of the current playoff-teams and a few others to tank that hard.

Just like the Islanders had no shot at Schaefer or Misa this year, picking 10th.

I'm not saying you're going to see a 15 team tankathon, but there are plenty of teams that are a notable injury or two away from dropping 5, 6 or 7 spots more than maybe initially expected.

I think most teams would rather trade a protected 1st + 2nd than chance the unprotected 1st + 3rd.

Just my hunch.

 

[keppel146]

That is the big question? Why draft him, or was the plan all along to wait until he turned into a quality nhl player then trade him? It's just a strange situation. Almost any team would and should be looking for a young 60pt center and we want to get rid of ours.

Billy is weird

 

[Luceni]

Just like the Islanders had no shot at Schaefer or Misa this year, picking 10th.

I'm not saying you're going to see a 15 team tankathon, but there are plenty of teams that are a notable injury or two away from dropping 5, 6 or 7 spots more than maybe initially expected.

I think most teams would rather trade a protected 1st + 2nd than chance the unprotected 1st + 3rd.

Just my hunch.

That would include the Wild as well then. Let's say Kap & Ek gonna miss significant time again next season, are we gonna tank or not?

The Wild gave the answer last season. I think tanking is more a "fan" thing, only few franchises are seriously considering this.

 

[keppel146]

That would include the Wild as well then. Let's say Kap & Ek gonna miss significant time again next season, are we gonna tank or not?

The Wild gave the answer last season. I think tanking is more a "fan" thing, only few franchises are seriously considering this.

Like the Penguins to secure Lemieux? You could probably add the Blackhawks for Bedard to that list as well.

 

[AKL]

It's classic hfboards right there: We overvalue draft picks on these boards. It's hardly ever a 23 year old, proven 60pt scorer becomes available in this league. A first round pick & a third round pick is a no-brainer imo.

Only a handful of teams really think they gonna have a shot at McKenna, they'll tank hard for him. Cant't see any of the current playoff-teams and a few others to tank that hard.

KcKenna could still become a Lafreniere or Byfield kinda bust even if the chances are pretty slim.

Several teams tanked to get McDavid, Bedard as well. The reality is any team that thinks it's likely going to be towards the bottom of the standings that year isn't going to even consider moving their 1st, whether they plan on actively tanking or just not being good.

And any team with playoff aspirations that year will still put top 3, 5, 10 protections on their 1st in case something does happen and they end up with a lottery pick. Even the pick the Wild gave up for Jiricek was top 5 protected, and they were one of the top 5 teams in the league at the time.

 

[Luceni]

Like the Penguins to secure Lemieux? You could probably add the Blackhawks for Bedard to that list as well.

Yes, there a teams who tanked for top picks in the past. But it's very unlikely that more than 5-6 teams are willingly involved in a "tanking-competition" like that.

 

[Wasted Talent]

Several teams tanked to get McDavid, Bedard as well. The reality is any team that thinks it's likely going to be towards the bottom of the standings that year isn't going to even consider moving their 1st, whether they plan on actively tanking or just not being good.

And any team with playoff aspirations that year will still put top 3, 5, 10 protections on their 1st in case something does happen and they end up with a lottery pick. Even the pick the Wild gave up for Jiricek was top 5 protected, and they were one of the top 5 teams in the league at the time.

Sharks trading their unprotected 1st (=Stutzle) for Karlsson is a good example of that risk becoming reality.

 

[AKL]

Sharks trading their unprotected 1st (=Stutzle) for Karlsson is a good example of that risk becoming reality.

Didn't Ottawa do that too with Byram? Or Makar? I think Byram.

 

[Wabit]

Just like the Islanders had no shot at Schaefer or Misa this year, picking 10th.

I'm not saying you're going to see a 15 team tankathon, but there are plenty of teams that are a notable injury or two away from dropping 5, 6 or 7 spots more than maybe initially expected.

I think most teams would rather trade a protected 1st + 2nd than chance the unprotected 1st + 3rd.

Just my hunch.

I don't see an offer sheet as a real threat for Rossi. for this reason. MN doesn't seem too invested in keeping him so a trade will happen before an offersheet.

 

[AKL]

I don't see an offer sheet as a real threat for Rossi. for this reason. MN doesn't seem too invested in keeping him so a trade will happen before an offersheet.

Honestly with how much Guerin does not want to pay him at all, I think a 5 year, 7-7.5M offer sheet is enough for Guerin to cut and run so he can get to using his cap space to sign guys he wants. I don't know how much of an appetite he'll have to match a contract he doesn't want to sign to try to trade him and risk not finding a deal.

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

That would include the Wild as well then. Let's say Kap & Ek gonna miss significant time again next season, are we gonna tank or not?

The Wild gave the answer last season. I think tanking is more a "fan" thing, only few franchises are seriously considering this.

Do you think that the only teams that finish in the bottom 10 are "tanking" teams? It's a standings-based system. 10 teams have to finish in the bottom 10,

Do you think Boston, Philly, Seattle, Detroit, Buffalo, Pittsburgh, the Rangers and the Islanders were all going into the 2024-25 season expecting to finish in the bottom 12? The answer is no.

 

[BagHead]

Guerin will need to balance the scales. On one side, Rossi's contract value, and on the other side Rossi's trade value. If Rossi's contract is palatable and the offers are as poor as a protected 1st and a 2nd, he absolutely should not trade Rossi. At that point, make the other team offer sheet him if they want him. They'll either lock him up for you, or they'll overextend and end up with a bad contract, and you'll have their unprotected 1st, 2nd, and 3rd. That's still not a great return depending on which team is doing the offer sheeting, but it's better than the alternative.

 

[57special]

If Rossi wants more than 7M with significant term, then he's asking too much, IMO. If Guerin thinks he can get him long term for less than 6, then he's dreaming. 6 x 6.25.-6.5 works, or a bridge deal, 2 x 5M, or even 1 x 5M.

I think Guerin has doubts abut Rossi's ability to produce consistently in the NHL, while Rossi thinks that he has done everything asked of him, and more.

I think it's ridiculous that his size is an issue. They knew when picking him that his size was what it is ... same with Marat. You can choose to criticize his skating, commitment, production, IQ, etc... all fair.

If Rossi puts up another good year next season then it would go a long way towards assuaging the team's worries about giving him a long term contract at a bigg'ish number.

 

[AKL]

If Rossi wants more than 7M with significant term, then he's asking too much, IMO. If Guerin thinks he can get him long term for less than 6, then he's dreaming. 6 x 6.25.-6.5 works, or a bridge deal, 2 x 5M, or even 1 x 5M.

I think Guerin has doubts abut Rossi's ability to produce consistently in the NHL, while Rossi thinks that he has done everything asked of him, and more.

I think it's ridiculous that his size is an issue. they knew when picking him that his size was what it is ... same with Marat.

I wish Guerin would just give him a bridge and let him keep proving it.

But it really sounds like they expect Yurov to make the team as a center, and Guerin was clear that he wants a center to help take some of the load off Ek, and there are only so many center spots on a roster, so mathematically, Rossi is gone.

Truth be told, I'm not even positive it's about his height, I think they just envision Yurov taking his role, and they want to fill the third center spot with another Ek type, which Rossi isn't ( guess to an extent because of his height).

Then again, if it were just about role, they could move either Rossi or Yurov to the wing to be the "scoring winger" they want to bring in, so maybe it is about his height.

 

[57special]

I wish Guerin would just give him a bridge and let him keep proving it.

But it really sounds like they expect Yurov to make the team as a center, and Guerin was clear that he wants a center to help take some of the load off Ek, and there are only so many center spots on a roster, so mathematically, Rossi is gone.

Truth be told, I'm not even positive it's about his height, I think they just envision Yurov taking his role, and they want to fill the third center spot with another Ek type, which Rossi isn't ( guess to an extent because of his height).

Then again, if it were just about role, they could move either Rossi or Yurov to the wing to be the "scoring winger" they want to bring in, so maybe it is about his height.

Yeah, me too.

I have a hard time believing that they think Yurov will come right in and take a top 6 C spot. We all saw the difficulty Ohgren had last year, and he plays an easier position. Both are a similar level of prospect.

I don't think Rossi has ever played wing. He is dissimilar to MiG in that one respect.

 

[AKL]

Yeah, me too.

I have a hard time believing that they think Yurov will come right in and take a top 6 C spot. We all saw the difficulty Ohgren had last year, and he plays an easier position. Both are a similar level of prospect.

I don't think Rossi has ever played wing. He is dissimilar to MiG in that one respect.

I also don't believe Yurov will be as successful as Rossi was this season, but the way Guerin spoke about it, he might? Personally I think Yurov is a better prospect than Öhgren. At least, I think he has a lot more natural talent. But still, there's a lot of room for Yurov to be better than Öhgren and still not a highly impactful NHL player.

 

[57special]

I'm fine with Rossi being traded, btw, just doubtful that Guerin will be able to find a player of equal ability and talent coming back. Worried that he will trade for a guy like Hayton, Pinto, or Howden. Good depth players, but not guys that you want as your #2C. It's not easy to find young, offensively skilled C's. Zegras MIGHT be able to click with Boldy, but his regression over the past two years is real, and his FO% godawful. - i also don't see him as being a "Guerin " player, just like he isn't a Verbeek type player.