Marc Bergevin Thread -- How you Drouin?

[NotProkofievian]

Montreal's offense in the playoffs is equivalent to an unwrapped Eatmore bar in the sun.

Lol.

 

[417]

So 2 weeks ago when asked at the PC after the Drouin trade, he said he had good faith and named Dalton Thrower as still a good defensive prospect since we had no one but Juulsen as most of us realize. Today the bozo doesn't qualify him. Seriously he has no direction, this team is going to need to rebuild in he next 2-3 years, gut everything cause the guy that will replace him will have nothing to work with.

He NEVER mentioned Dalton Thrower

Stop making **** up

He mentioned Brett Lernout

Just another example of the state of this board these days.

 

[417]

Longest extension in the league? What is our owner thinking ... or rather not thinking?











What's the plan? Gotta be The Thrower Doctrine, hereafter.




I had no idea he had said this about Thrower. Why would he not be aware of a player his organization doesn't even value all that much? What is all this puffery in front of the mikes?

He never mentioned Thrower once...pure fabrication.

So cheap

 

[apexpredator]

So 2 weeks ago when asked at the PC after the Drouin trade, he said he had good faith and named Dalton Thrower as still a good defensive prospect since we had no one but Juulsen as most of us realize. Today the bozo doesn't qualify him. Seriously he has no direction, this team is going to need to rebuild in he next 2-3 years, gut everything cause the guy that will replace him will have nothing to work with.

LMAFOOOOO

Man I feel for habs fans.. either we are incompetent, which I feel for
Or there is a language barrier, which I completely understand

But reality is.. Bergevin mentioned Lernout, not some scrub like Thrower.

There are tons of ways to bash BargainBin. If we are going to blame BargainBin, lets blame him for wasting a 2nd round on Thrower. There's no need to make things up.

 

[MSLs absurd thighs]

He NEVER mentioned Dalton Thrower

Stop making **** up

He mentioned Brett Lernout

Just another example of the state of this board these days.

He indeed never mentioned Thrower. But wait and see people run with this.

 

[DAChampion]

Given that Thrower was not mentioned I was in error for commenting on it.

 

[417]

He indeed never mentioned Thrower. But wait and see people run with this.

It's too late...see all the follow up comments.

 

[Chili]

The way I saw the playoff series this year, the Rangers strategy from the outset was to pound the Habs. They took advantage of their size and speed advantage.

By later in game four the Habs looked worn down. The Habs had plenty of shots but other then Gallagher who was going to the net?

Habs were and still are too soft in my opinion, I would have had McCarron into the series sooner.

The hitting in the playoffs is ferocious, if the Habs go into next playoffs with a similar type of smallish/soft roster I don't see them getting much further.

 

[Miller Time]

I kind of agree, but I'd guess it's more a coaching strategy to compensate for less talent. Julien knows they lack the talent to poke, deflect or shoot the puck in the net with great frequency, so at least fire it in the general direction as much as possible and see what happens.

To poke/deflect pucks in the net, don't you need players willing to "grind it out"?
Players that know and care enough about winning to do the dirty work?

Isn't that exactly the kind of team identity bergevin has alluded to since he took over?

If we don't have a roster with the talent to score, not the ability/willingness to play a gritty game, then what exactly is the identity if the team he's been building for the past 5 years?

I just don't quite understand how you can accurately identify the huge flaws in our roster, yet ignore that the roster is the direct responsibility of the GM... At what point is it reasonable to hold him accountable?

That's both bad roster management and bad coaching.

Five more years of BargainBin, five more years of Julien. Eek.

The dunces got Ott, Martinsen, Davidson, Benn, and Dwight fkn King at the trade deadline. What a mess.

Yup.... A revolving door of wasted assets... Mostly small ones, the constant drip in the bucket slowly eroding the asset value of the roster he inherited, but like every unattended slow leak, eventually it leads to massive rot/damage.

Instead of focusing on the useless players he acquired, focus should stick to the assets he gave up & the result achieved...

1st round playoff loss at the cost of Pateryn, 2x 4th, andrighetto, desharnais
6th & 7th dmen on 1 year deals is what we're left with.

Alone, each of those moves is rightly seen as "not a big deal"... Which is the correct fan perception, but for the guy in charge?... The big picture has to be the main focus, and in that context this past year has been a huge failure, leaving the team older, less talented, thinner in pick/prospect depth and the core getting more expensive. Abject failure.

Added up that way, and his ineptitude at managing a roster effectively is exposed.

 

[OnTheRun]

Losing Radulov and Markov is not "status quo".

I was actually expecting the status quo: keeping Radulov and Markov.

Instead:
Lose Markov
Replace Radulov with Drouin (a lateral move at best)
Lose Sergachev

Well it is.

Radu out/Drouin in, wash
Markov out/~6M$ Dman in (expected), wash
Sergachev non-roster player/Sergachev out, no difference at all.

You won't hear some names anymore and you will hear new name next year, but for all intend and purpose the team as a whole will be more or less the same. Basically we'll go from 2 20 dollar bills to 4 10 dollar bills (or any split you fancy, still 40 bucks at the end).

 

[tazsub3]

He was amped up today for some reason and ridiculing the organization for its statements on players their development and how Bergevin has a pattern of lowering players values that’s just a minor bit that really stick with me. worth a listen from the website I’m not really doing it justice

That is absolutely true, he did it to beaulieu too after the exist meetings.
The part i question mcguire, is while i agree they mismanaged AG, that was mainly done by the coach, yet when the said coach was fired, he went on a tirade against the move.

 

[Habs100]

The way I saw the playoff series this year, the Rangers strategy from the outset was to pound the Habs. They took advantage of their size and speed advantage.

By later in game four the Habs looked worn down. The Habs had plenty of shots but other then Gallagher who was going to the net?

Habs were and still are too soft in my opinion, I would have had McCarron into the series sooner.

The hitting in the playoffs is ferocious, if the Habs go into next playoffs with a similar type of smallish/soft roster I don't see them getting much further.

The Rangers were one of the bigger teams. The Blue Jackets also would have given us trouble.

This is why we really need to sign Radulov. He can protect the puck in the offensive zone. Danault will be a year older, and stronger. So will Lehkonen, and Chucky.

The added skill of Drouin should offset the physical mismatch. I like our chances if we keep our wingers and maybe add a center during UFA (Hanzal, Bonino, or Thornton and perhaps Brian Boyle).

 

[ArtPeur]

Well it is.

Radu out/Drouin in, wash
Markoiv out/~6M$ Dman in (expected), wash
Sergachev non-roster player/Sergachev out, no difference at all.

You won't hear some names anymore and you will hear new name next year, but for all intend and purpose the team as a whole will be more or less the same. Basically we'll go from 2 20 dollar bills to 4 10 dollar bills (or any split you fancy, still 40 bucks at the end).

Actually, we lost 3 roster LD and only replaced one with Schlemko. If Markov doesn't sign with us and we replaced him with a lesser 6M $ Dman, we would still be missing one LD.. unless Jerabek and Davidson are so great

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Agreed. Habs choked away leads in both final games and couldn't put chances in the net. It was frustrating as hell to watch! But that has nothing to do with being 'dominated'. Montreal was outscored by one goal in six games (not including Empty-Nets) and was never dominated in any single game. They were thisclose every single time and just couldn't translate shots into goals.

And this could be forgiven except for the following:

- This had been going on since January. We had great shot totals but couldn't score. It was a known problem going in and we did nothing about it. We needed more talent up front. Even adding ONE scorer would've helped.

- Alex Galchenyuk was used in the bottom six and mostly on the wing despite us not being able to buy a goal. This is simply inexcusable.

- We used Phillip Dannault.... PHILLIP DANNAULT! as our number one center.

It's one thing to get shut down by a goalie. It happens to all teams sometimes. But Lundqvist looked very weak until the last two games of that series and we didn't take advantage. When you have a team that makes a habit out of making other goalies look like Vezina winners in most games then you've got a serious problem. No excuses, this one's on the GM as far as I'm concerned.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Bergevin is sitting on $21M in cap space with 17 players signed. I know he is being careful with managing our cap but heading into Free agency with no Markov or Radulov re-signed is a risk if you ask me. This likely comes back to burn you in the end.

You never rely on UFA free agency. The minute Markov and Radulov become UFA, you run the risk of planting a seed and these players think about how it's like playing with another team that is aggressively perusing them.

 

[get25]

The way I saw the playoff series this year, the Rangers strategy from the outset was to pound the Habs. They took advantage of their size and speed advantage.

By later in game four the Habs looked worn down. The Habs had plenty of shots but other then Gallagher who was going to the net?

Habs were and still are too soft in my opinion, I would have had McCarron into the series sooner.

The hitting in the playoffs is ferocious, if the Habs go into next playoffs with a similar type of smallish/soft roster I don't see them getting much further.

We know DLR and McCarron are very near.
Having them on our bottom-6 would give us significant size.

DLR plays with us or we are going to loose him via waivers.

McCarron can go down till the last 15-20 games of the season.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

I sometimes do wonder if the players are trying to optimize their advanced stats.

If so, it wouldn't work. Taking low percentage shots is just going to result in turnovers. It's not going to result in the kind of high pressure offense that's going to boost your totals.

 

[Nedved]

imagine if markov ended up in ottawa, playing behind karlsson. I would be pissed.

 

[Pointed Finger]

I think M Bergevin is a particularly bad general manager. Why the ownership is so enamored by him is certainly a reasonable question. Is it the rugged good looks? I certainly hope not.

One can debate the merits of his decisions - personally, I dislike the choices he has made. The thing that really bothers me about him comes out in press conferences. The things he says and the way he says them seem to demonstrate an underlying character flaw. This flaw, a subtle arrogant anger, seems to shape the man and his thinking.

Let me support this argument using 3 separate yet conjoined examples - Kassian, Subban, and Galchenyuk.

1) Kassian. An early morning crash. He apparently was not driving. Alcohol problem. Bergevin upset by this behaviour. Kassian undergoes treatment. Gets shipped out immediately. Does this not bother anyone else? Young people especially those in the limelight need guidance. I would suggest that many other young players have behaved likewise but were fortunate enough not to be in a car crash. Bergevin's reaction was rash and emotional. He spoke mostly about how disappointed he was in the player. How did the player react to the mistake of being in the wrong place and the wrong time? He apologized, fulfilled his treatment for substance abuse and went on to have a very productive season. Now signed long term by another team because they think of him highly. Handled better, we would have a more mature and rising player.

2) Subban. He had an open dislike for Therrien. Therrien also did not disguise his open dislike for Subban. When a coach starts to lose players, the onus in professional sports is on the coach. The big mistake Bergevin made here and that he may make again with Julien, is that he befriended the coach, his employee. You just don't become friends with the coach as a GM because history suggests you will need to fire that coach at some point. By being friends, you lose the ability to make a rational decision. A good GM would have fired Therrien during the first winter of discontent - there would have been no Subban mumblings if that had occurred. The second mistake Bergevin made was to keep denying that he was shopping Subban. You simply can not keep such a thing secret especially when you are reaching out to other parties for potential deals. Bergevin keeps saying that he likes to keep his thoughts private, but he in fact is doing the opposite. Keeping your thinking private doesn't mean outright lies or making "no comment" statements. Negotiation requires more than this. I would suggest that he would have been better off shopping Subban openly if that was always his intent. (And I think every GM knew it) He could have then controlled the media dialogue and increased interest.

3) Galchenyuk. This whole situation leaves me flabbergasted. You drafted a player to potentially play center. Your coach played him on the wing because he wasn't ready defensively to play center. He excelled as a very young player and you're probably very happy that you didn't take Yakupov (whom Bergevin wanted so badly) or that other Russian fellow who went to Buffalo. Now all of a sudden you say it's time he plays center. He plays center and he does a good job until he is injured. When he comes back, he is tentative and your friend the coach puts him on the wing. Confidence down, the player produces less for the rest of the season and playoffs. You imply that a player is what a player is after x number of seasons. You openly shop him talking about his shortcomings. You basically talk about him as an asset to get you a center. Does no one see this as a problem? You've now lost the player's loyalty and have boxed yourself into an action. You've lowered his value by losing the narrative in the media who discuss the player as being unable to play center instead of being an exciting forward.

I'm just not sure how anyone can be a fervent Bergevin supporter. I laughed when he had the presser discussing Julien's hiring which to me was filled with half lies/truths and when he was asked about the contract and he deflected it like money didn't mean anything when you are getting a great coach. This guy should NOT be negotiating deals. Therefore this guy should not be a GM.

 

[Chili]

The Rangers were one of the bigger teams. The Blue Jackets also would have given us trouble.

This is why we really need to sign Radulov. He can protect the puck in the offensive zone. Danault will be a year older, and stronger. So will Lehkonen, and Chucky.

The added skill of Drouin should offset the physical mismatch. I like our chances if we keep our wingers and maybe add a center during UFA (Hanzal, Bonino, or Thornton and perhaps Brian Boyle).

Agree on Radulov, hopefully not seven years worth though.

The Habs used to be one of the fastest teams. I wouldn't call them slow now but if your team is small they need to be fast.

Beyond skill, in the playoffs need warriors who will pay the price to win battles and everyone needs to be able to skate now. I think the Habs are lacking there on the current roster.

 

[themilosh]

Bergevin is sitting on $21M in cap space with 17 players signed. I know he is being careful with managing our cap but heading into Free agency with no Markov or Radulov re-signed is a risk if you ask me. This likely comes back to burn you in the end.

You never rely on UFA free agency. The minute Markov and Radulov become UFA, you run the risk of planting a seed and these players think about how it's like playing with another team that is aggressively perusing them.

Yeah thats like letting your gf or wife have a hall pass. Lol. Once it's used, it's over. Pun intended.

 

[Lshap]

To poke/deflect pucks in the net, don't you need players willing to "grind it out"?
Players that know and care enough about winning to do the dirty work?

Isn't that exactly the kind of team identity bergevin has alluded to since he took over?

If we don't have a roster with the talent to score, not the ability/willingness to play a gritty game, then what exactly is the identity if the team he's been building for the past 5 years?

I just don't quite understand how you can accurately identify the huge flaws in our roster, yet ignore that the roster is the direct responsibility of the GM... At what point is it reasonable to hold him accountable?

I'm honestly not sure what you're asking. Do you want to know a general timeline for when a GM should be held accountable, or my own personal perception of Bergevin?

My quick take: Bergevin has been accountable since 2015. After the quick turnaround in 2013 and the good 2014 run, he knew he had a potential contender and should have gone for it. 2015 was the template for the same issues that continue to this day: Lousy offence, awful to weak PP. I've said the same thing for two years -- how is that ignoring anything?

I thought last year's team was really good and would've bet money that Bergevin would add scoring at the trade-deadline. He didn't and once again... lousy offence.