Marc Bergevin (Part 12) Deadline Edition

[Kriss E]

"of course, the objective is to make the playoffs ... but also, our objective is to get better every year. we're confident that we're doing that. we like our leadership, we're one of the youngest teams in the league, we have good prospects, the players in the room believe in each other. would i like to have more appearances? yes, ... but i like our future, for sure."

You still havent rated yourself.

 

[Archijerej]

He replaced Plekanec? Sure. I guess you forgot how trash Plekanec was during his final years in Montreal. Danault isn't a scrub, he's one of the best defensive forwards and a ~50 point forward

That's not what he meant though. You can add Danault to replace Plekanec, but it doesn't mean you've added to the general talent pool of the team. You merely replaced a player who declined and left.

 

[Hins77]

Andrew Shaw for 2 2nd round pick (Debrincat and Girard maybe?)

Easy to say. Probably timmins would pick a player in sweden and an american at the second round

 

[Kriss E]

This is definitely the part that boggles my mind the most with people defending how good Bergevin is based on his trade record. If he's THAT great at making trades, and the team is THAT bad, he must be freaking aweful at everything else, because he did not start from a bad position at all. He started with a Norris winner, a Vezina winner, a 3rd overall pick and a winger that was going to be top 5 in total goals over many seasons. The team was not perfect, but it was competitive and had key pieces, was mainly just missing a top center to be a serious contender.

But it really boils down to no vision. All his trades, with the exception probably of Danault and Pacioretty, are replacement trades. He creates a hole somewhere or replaces a player that either got traded or was falling off. It's trades that allow the team not to just become significantly worse than it was before, but they do not improve compared to how the team already was. Signing Radulov to 8M per season and keeping Sergachev would have been FAR better for the team than trading for Drouin. We would have a much better Left D with same quality (if not better) wing. So it doesn't even matter if you consider the trade a win, or a wash when looking at it player for player. In the end, it's a move that made the team worse.

Domi vs Galchenyuk and Weber vs Subban might be good trades if you compare how both players involved in the trade perform currently. But Subban before getting traded was as good for the Habs as Weber ever was, and Galchenyuk wasn't much different than this year's Domi. This year's Domi is better than this year's Galchenyuk, and this year's Weber is better than this year's Subban, great, but the team didn't improve as a result of those trades, it just didn't get worse.

Improving a team isn't winning 1 for 1 trades in a vacuum. It requires adding to the overall quality of your roster, knowing that some of that quality will go down and some will go up in the future on its own depending on the age of the players involved. Trading players going downhill for players trending up is definitely something you want to do, but it doesn't mean that your team improved in itself, it just prevents it from degrading.

Bergevin showed he can trade well enough to maintain a team in mediocrity and not fall off all the way to the bottom of the league like the Red Wings did. But the team has been gradually getting worse over his tenure, meaning he's just aweful at other things necessary to build a contender. Stop defending his trades in a vacuum and just look at the big picture, the team is clearly not better with him at the helm for so long.

Even with Danault, Plek scored 60pts in 14-15, he wasnt finished as soon as Bergevin took over. Danault is not an upgrade over him if we look at those years.
Of course if you focus on his last two years then yes, but prior to that, not really.

 

[angusyoung]

"of course, the objective is to make the playoffs ... but also, our objective is to get better every year. we're confident that we're doing that. we like our leadership, we're one of the youngest teams in the league, we have good prospects, the players in the room believe in each other. would i like to have more appearances? yes, ... but i like our future, for sure."

Who's objective? Molsons is to make money, win! The rest of the dog and pony so is to give the illusion that the objective is to make the PO's.

 

[Ozmodiar]

You still havent rated yourself.

oh, now he's got the 'journalist' right where he wants them.

big smile, and turns on the charm ... "I'll let you take care of the ratings, Tony. I think you'd be better at that anyway. That's why you make the big bucks." (everyone laughs)

 

[SOLR]

Makes no sense man. That's what a press conference is about. Not to know if they are sad or not. If they think next year will be better. If they think that we had a ****ty winter. If so, don't do it. There a ****ing aura around the Habs that they don't deserve anymore. You could have some reservations to attack a winning team. This management doesn't deserve anything. So being careful was the way to go. That needs to stop. It's not just a question of asking people to gather together and make a plan to piss off Bergevin. It's all about being true to yourself and ask the right questions. Bergevin still has the right to answer as he wants. He still has the right to show his ego by asking journalists questions, they it will have to be for the journalists to be ready to answer.

For all the hate against the old journalist guys that are now retired, they were not scared of going after them. These were all newspaper guys, they did not have these relationships with the club.

The absence of competition is another big factor. Say the Nordiques would be there, TVA would have the Nordiques, RDS the habs, there would be competitive reasons to bash the opposition media and team.

 

[Archijerej]

This is definitely the part that boggles my mind the most with people defending how good Bergevin is based on his trade record. If he's THAT great at making trades, and the team is THAT bad, he must be freaking aweful at everything else, because he did not start from a bad position at all. He started with a Norris winner, a Vezina winner, a 3rd overall pick and a winger that was going to be top 5 in total goals over many seasons. The team was not perfect, but it was competitive and had key pieces, was mainly just missing a top center to be a serious contender.

But it really boils down to no vision. All his trades, with the exception probably of Danault and Pacioretty, are replacement trades. He creates a hole somewhere or replaces a player that either got traded or was falling off. It's trades that allow the team not to just become significantly worse than it was before, but they do not improve compared to how the team already was. Signing Radulov to 8M per season and keeping Sergachev would have been FAR better for the team than trading for Drouin. We would have a much better Left D with same quality (if not better) wing. So it doesn't even matter if you consider the trade a win, or a wash when looking at it player for player. In the end, it's a move that made the team worse.

Domi vs Galchenyuk and Weber vs Subban might be good trades if you compare how both players involved in the trade perform currently. But Subban before getting traded was as good for the Habs as Weber ever was, and Galchenyuk wasn't much different than this year's Domi. This year's Domi is better than this year's Galchenyuk, and this year's Weber is better than this year's Subban, great, but the team didn't improve as a result of those trades, it just didn't get worse.

Improving a team isn't winning 1 for 1 trades in a vacuum. It requires adding to the overall quality of your roster, knowing that some of that quality will go down and some will go up in the future on its own depending on the age of the players involved. Trading players going downhill for players trending up is definitely something you want to do, but it doesn't mean that your team improved in itself, it just prevents it from degrading.

Bergevin showed he can trade well enough to maintain a team in mediocrity and not fall off all the way to the bottom of the league like the Red Wings did. But the team has been gradually getting worse over his tenure, meaning he's just aweful at other things necessary to build a contender. Stop defending his trades in a vacuum and just look at the big picture, the team is clearly not better with him at the helm for so long.

These are all fair points. But we have to realise that this circle of mediocrity can only be broken if we radically improve our drafting and development. This is where the added value must come from, because I doubt we can find a GM who will extract more value than Berg from trades alone.

 

[Habs 4 Life]

Bergevin is not getting fired guys, he is still looking for Weber's partner and Molson is waiting as well......... 2022!!!

I hope people give up their season tickets for next year, even more than this past season

 

[CheldishGamibno]

Easy to say. Probably timmins would pick a player in sweden and an american at the second round

Ouch, but true.

I don't know who is Sweden's (and Finland) scouts for the Habs but dear lord it hurts to see.
Collberg, De La Rose, Vejdemo, Ikonen, Olofsson and Ylonen. Why not throw the pick in the garbage instead, would give the same result.

 

[hvac412]

Hopeless....the only way we get out of all this is to fire this clown. It's called accountability after 8 years of nothing....I know I know he wins all his trades...lol
And here we are...

Hopeless is the fact that the assclown who owns the team is even more incompetent than the gm,if that's even possible.

 

[Kriss E]

oh, now he's got the 'journalist' right where he wants them.

big smile, and turns on the charm ... "I'll let you take care of the ratings, Tony. I think you'd be better at that anyway. That's why you make the big bucks." (everyone laughs)

So you're okay with failing to reach your objective to make the POs 4/5 years.

 

[Ozmodiar]

The habs aren't any more competitive if the players on the roster than are currently under 6 feet were all over 6 feet.

Mete, Tatar, Domi, Suzuki, Gallagher, Cousins and Weal don't suddenly become stars and gamebreakers due to a couple of more inches.

no, but they need more balance. they need more than Armia who plays a heavy game. ... to win battles along the boards and in front of the net. this is apparent, without considering the types of players they'd need in the playoffs.

similar profile player: drouin, domi, gally, tatar ... caufield incoming. not a lot of physicality down the middle either.

despite this, the D is the bigger problem.

this team is a mess.

 

[Ozmodiar]

So you're okay with failing to reach your objective to make the POs 4/5 years.

it's too late. you've already asked your 4/5 years question.

the gallery is chuckling over his joke and the next question goes to Pat or Stu.

 

[Habs13]

Three or four more losses, and Purple will have more misses than playoff appearances as Habs GM.

May 2nd, 2012. Bergervin becomes general (mis)manager.

2011-2012 - Out Of Playoffs
2012-2013 - Lost Round 1
2013-2014 - Lost Round 3
2014-2015 - Lost Round 2
2015-2016 - Out Of Playoffs
2016-2017 - Lost Round 1
2017-2018 - Out Of Playoffs
2018-2019 - Out Of Playoffs
2019-2020 - Out Of Playoffs

 

[waffledave]

The habs aren't any more competitive if the players on the roster than are currently under 6 feet were all over 6 feet.

Mete, Tatar, Domi, Suzuki, Gallagher, Cousins and Weal don't suddenly become stars and gamebreakers due to a couple of more inches.

I certainly think they would be better if they were bigger and stronger.

 

[The Great Weal]

I certainly think they would be better if they were bigger and stronger.

Maybe instead of being a bottom 10 team they become a bottom 11 team. Team needs talent in the worst way, size can be added with ease later on.

 

[Kriss E]

it's too late. you've already asked your 4/5 years question.

the gallery is chuckling over his joke and the next question goes to Pat or Stu.

So the next journalist can keep pressing.

 

[habergeon]

For fun…

All-time Montreal Canadiens GM tenure / results

1. Selke – 18 years ( 17 PO appearances / 6 Cups)
2. Pollock – 14 years (13 PO appearances / 10 Cups)
3. Durand – 14 years (12 PO appearances / 3 Cups)
4. S. Savard – 12 years (11 PO appearances / 2 Cups)
5. Kennedy – 11 years (1 Cup)
6. Gainey – 7 years (4 PO appearances / 0 Cups)
7. Bergevin – 7 years (4 PO appearances / 0 Cups)
8. Gorman – 6 years (6 PO appearances / 2 Cups)
9. Grundman – 5 years (5 PO appearances / 2 Cups)
10. Houle – 5 years (3 PO appearances / 0 Cups)
11. Hart – 3 years (3 PO appearances / 0 Cups)
12. Gauthier 2 years (2 PO appearances / 0 Cups)
13. Dugal – 1 year
14. E. Savard – 1 year
15. Cattarinich / Laviolette – 1 year combined.

Is Bergevin really Gainey’s equal? Or is his success (and Gauthier’s), more the result of Gainey’s roster construction prior to them being hired.

Bergevin inherited a team that qualified for the playoffs 4 out of 5 years prior, Gainey inherited a team that didn’t qualify 4 out of 5 years before being hired.

Where does Bergevin rank amount all time GM’s with the Habs? How does he compare to Gainey?

 

[Ozmodiar]

So the next journalist can keep pressing.

They spent the day leading up to the presser thinking about what to ask, and they’re just going to repeat a previous question (even if in more stern tone)?

I don’t think so.

 

[S Bah]

Love the players Bergy has brought to the club over his time as GM, hopefully Scandella can be resigned & Kovalchuk, another Dman I like is San Joses
's Brendan Dillon(UFA & LHD) love Kulak as well. Can't have too many defencemen particularly veterans for the SC Playoffs. Thompson great at center IMHO. Go Habs Go!!!...Have to mention Paul Byron the Habs have a gem there too.

 

[optimus2861]

The lengths people will go to discredit Danault lmao.

He replaced Plekanec? Sure. I guess you forgot how trash Plekanec was during his final years in Montreal. Danault isn't a scrub, he's one of the best defensive forwards and a ~50 point forward.

Dude. Plekanec at his best was better than Danault. Full stop.

Plekanec from his second season in the league consistently put up 20 G per season (7 of 9 seasons) and peaked at 70 points. It wasn't until he hit about 33 years old that he started to decline, and even that year (15/16) he notched 54 points. All while being excellent defensively. Over his career he was 0.6 PPG, while Danault is currently just over 0.5 PPG for his career.

Danault is a fine player. He's not better than Plekanec was.

 

[waffledave]

Maybe instead of being a bottom 10 team they become a bottom 11 team. Team needs talent in the worst way, size can be added with ease later on.

I am talking about those individual players. They would be better if they were bigger.

 

[Kriss E]

They spent the day leading up to the presser thinking about what to ask, and they’re just going to repeat a previous question (even if in more stern tone)?

I don’t think so.

Well I'm sure they're all thinking the same. Failings for 4/5 years...if they see Bergey tiptoeing they can press him.
It's been 8 years we hear about how trades are hard, reset, drafting late is hard to land top talent, not mortgaging the future, injuries, so when is the plan meant to reach fruition?

They need to press and keep pressing as he dodges.

 

[ahmedou]

Trades: Winning trades?

MB: Yes