Blue Jays Discussion: Manoah gets the Halladay treatment (optioned to rookie-ball to try and fix him)

[The Nemesis]

New season, new thread. Let's go!

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[Bjindaho]

I was playing The Show and the off day reminded me that no one's pen can get completely wrecked by a bad day one start because of it.

 

[Anthrax442]

My body is ready

 

[Suntouchable13]

Anyone kinda miss the old days where you used to have interleague play only for a couple of weeks in June and that was it? I like the more balanced schedule, don’t get me wrong, but I kinda miss that.

 

[Bjindaho]

Anyone kinda miss the old days where you used to have interleague play only for a couple of weeks in June and that was it? I like the more balanced schedule, don’t get me wrong, but I kinda miss that.

No, I despised the old school interleague baseball.

Interleague needs to be all or nothing.

 

[Suntouchable13]

No, I despised the old school interleague baseball.

Interleague needs to be all or nothing.

Oh well, I guess I am nostalgic because that’s how it was when I was getting into baseball. I was too young/not in NA when interleague was not a thing at all.

 

[theaub]

If anything there should be more interleague. Every team should travel to every stadium each season.

The fact that a guy like Barry Bonds played three games in Toronto during his entire career is criminal.

 

[fancy lad]

feels so weird starting the season with interleague, but i do think it will be a more fair regular season schedule when all is said and done. It will be a benefit to a team like the Jays.

I'm just a bit annoyed with the 4:00 start today and no game tomorrow.

 

[Bjindaho]

Oh well, I guess I am nostalgic because that’s how it was when I was getting into baseball. I was too young/not in NA when interleague was not a thing at all.

There used to be a National League strike zone and an American League strike zone. The early days of interleague highlighted these and how stupid two different strike zones despite one set of rules governing balls and strikes were.

 

[Cams]

I'm all for more interleague games - it is basically like the NHL/NBA/NFL conferences

I'd much rather more of the teams play in each city instead of the ridiculous amount of games teams played against those in their division. I really didn't like the fact that Jays play the Yankees/Red Sox/Orioles/Rays that many times each year. I sure wish the Jays and Tigers were still in the same division (as do most Windsor are Jays fans).

Also wish MLB (and the NHL) would stop changing rules so often. I do like the pitch clock, but I think the no shift and positional restrictions are bad, as well as the bigger bases. If you are facing a guy who pulls the ball almost exclusively, why shouldn't be able to stack the infield on that side.........

All this being said, I am actually heading to Toronto to see a game this year for this first time in quite a while - last game I went was the black jerseys - Wells, Overbay, Towers (he started that game). I hope to see them in Detroit as well...the 20 min drive is much easier than 4+ hours to downtown TOR

 

[Tony Romo]

If anything there should be more interleague. Every team should travel to every stadium each season.

The fact that a guy like Barry Bonds played three games in Toronto during his entire career is criminal.

Random thought that came to my head. Wasn't the Jays super close to signing him near the end of his career when he was looking for a contract?

 

[theaub]

Random thought that came to my head. Wasn't the Jays super close to signing him near the end of his career when he was looking for a contract?

They weren't close to signing him because he was blackballed but it was an extremely logical move when they cut Frank Thomas...but they instead decided on 'roster flexibility' which meant giving more AB's to the corpses of Shannon Stewart/Kevin Mench/Brad Wilkerson etc

I'm all for more interleague games - it is basically like the NHL/NBA/NFL conferences

I'd much rather more of the teams play in each city instead of the ridiculous amount of games teams played against those in their division. I really didn't like the fact that Jays play the Yankees/Red Sox/Orioles/Rays that many times each year. I sure wish the Jays and Tigers were still in the same division (as do most Windsor are Jays fans).

Also wish MLB (and the NHL) would stop changing rules so often. I do like the pitch clock, but I think the no shift and positional restrictions are bad, as well as the bigger bases. If you are facing a guy who pulls the ball almost exclusively, why shouldn't be able to stack the infield on that side.........

All this being said, I am actually heading to Toronto to see a game this year for this first time in quite a while - last game I went was the black jerseys - Wells, Overbay, Towers (he started that game). I hope to see them in Detroit as well...the 20 min drive is much easier than 4+ hours to downtown TOR

Would be optimal if they went full balanced schedule (at least in the leagues) for sure - unfortunately ESPN needs their four (used to be six!) separate primetime Yankees/Red Sox, Cubs/Cardinals, Dodgers/Giants etc broadcasts so it will never happen nowadays. 30 years ago we had a balanced league schedule and the Jays were a constant on Sunday Night Baseball...

I'm generally indifferent on the shift rule but I also think you should reward guys hitting the ball hard and as much as people go 'well they should bunt against the shift!' I think its far more fun to watch a lefty smash a ball 110 MPH to the right side and not have to worry about it being tracked down by the third baseman in shallow RF.

Bigger bases is weird to me but the running game has died the past few years and its fun so I'll give it a shot.

 

[Cams]

They weren't close to signing him because he was blackballed but it was an extremely logical move when they cut Frank Thomas...but they instead decided on 'roster flexibility' which meant giving more AB's to the corpses of Shannon Stewart/Kevin Mench/Brad Wilkerson etc



Would be optimal if they went full balanced schedule (at least in the leagues) for sure - unfortunately ESPN needs their four (used to be six!) separate primetime Yankees/Red Sox, Cubs/Cardinals, Dodgers/Giants etc broadcasts so it will never happen nowadays. 30 years ago we had a balanced league schedule and the Jays were a constant on Sunday Night Baseball...

I'm generally indifferent on the shift rule but I also think you should reward guys hitting the ball hard and as much as people go 'well they should bunt against the shift!' I think its far more fun to watch a lefty smash a ball 110 MPH to the right side and not have to worry about it being tracked down by the third baseman in shallow RF.

Bigger bases is weird to me but the running game has died the past few years and its fun so I'll give it a shot.

I still go back to my comment on this. If a hitter is a dead pull hitter, then the team on defense should be able to do whatever they feel is best to get the hitter out. If it means 4 outfielders (1 shallow) and a stacked infield on the hitters pull side, then why limit the defensive sides ability to maximize a chance in getting an out. This is similar to the terrible trapezoid rule in hockey......so a couple of the goalies perfected a unique skill in playing the puck (Brodeur is the main example), so the league decides to take that away and punish the few who had that elite ability.

I assume MLB is trying to create more offense, but it's also removing strategy.

 

[kb]

Now that there is a universal DH, it no longer makes sense for MLB to restrict intraleague games to a few series like they did when there was no DH in the NL. Teams in each league were built specifically for the different rules, so the home team would arguably have a step up as they were built for the rules they would be playing under.

That argument - as weak as it was really - is no longer applicable.

 

[Cams]

Here is a question for those that frequent the Jays home games.....

I am heading up with my wife, kid (24 yr old), their partner, and my father-in-law. Me and FIL are going to the game, the other 3 are not going to the game. This is a Sunday PM game in May. We are just doing a day trip (a very long day trip) from Windsor. The prices for a hotel in downtown Toronto are absolutely non-sense. Aside from the CN Tower and Ripley's Aquarium, what kind of things are nearby that they can do while we are at the game? Sounds like they are thinking the aquarium, and I'd assume it takes a few hours to see it all, so that likely might fill close to the same amount of time......? I also paid for parking with my tickets - parking at the garage at 315 Front St ( had the option of buying parking with my tickets ). Walking to the stadium from there (Rod Robbie Bridge). I assume there are lots of place to have lunch as well nearby....

Sorry - it's been a long time since I've been to Toronto.

 

[rojac]

I still go back to my comment on this. If a hitter is a dead pull hitter, then the team on defense should be able to do whatever they feel is best to get the hitter out. If it means 4 outfielders (1 shallow) and a stacked infield on the hitters pull side, then why limit the defensive sides ability to maximize a chance in getting an out. This is similar to the terrible trapezoid rule in hockey......so a couple of the goalies perfected a unique skill in playing the puck (Brodeur is the main example), so the league decides to take that away and punish the few who had that elite ability.

I assume MLB is trying to create more offense, but it's also removing strategy.

I might have considered shifting to be a strategy 40-50 years ago when most data n where exactly batters hit the ball was kept by hand and it was largely up to managers how to defend against hitters.

But I assume that, these days, clubs use complex computer modelling to determine the optimal placement of fielders based on the abilities of the batter, pitcher, and fielders in the game.

So, is it really strategy or just a competition to see who has the better computer software?

 

[Bjindaho]

I still go back to my comment on this. If a hitter is a dead pull hitter, then the team on defense should be able to do whatever they feel is best to get the hitter out. If it means 4 outfielders (1 shallow) and a stacked infield on the hitters pull side, then why limit the defensive sides ability to maximize a chance in getting an out. This is similar to the terrible trapezoid rule in hockey......so a couple of the goalies perfected a unique skill in playing the puck (Brodeur is the main example), so the league decides to take that away and punish the few who had that elite ability.

I assume MLB is trying to create more offense, but it's also removing strategy.

The trapezoid rule isn't to stop a Brodeur from playing the puck. It was actually more of a rule to stop goalies from getting lost outside their crease (Roy was one of the worst goalies for this).

 

[Cams]

The trapezoid rule isn't to stop a Brodeur from playing the puck. It was actually more of a rule to stop goalies from getting lost outside their crease (Roy was one of the worst goalies for this).

Not sure on that......it was even called the Martin Brodeur rule..... They even mention Marty Turco in one article. A quick online search turned up lots of information on this.......here is one example:


Starting in the 2005-2006 NHL season, the league introduced a trapezoidal area behind the goal line. The goalie may not touch the puck behind the goal line and outside of the trapezoidal area,


This rule was introduced to take away the advantage of having a goalie who could essentially become the third defenseman for a team. If a team dumped the puck in, Brodeur could race out of his net and take possession, clearing the puck to a teammate.

If you have a goalie as good as Martin Brodeur, then you are very fortunate. To clip an elite NHL goalie’s wings to bring his skill level down to everyone else, is a stupid rule!

 

[Bjindaho]

Not sure on that......it was even called the Martin Brodeur rule..... They even mention Marty Turco in one article. A quick online search turned up lots of information on this.......here is one example:


Starting in the 2005-2006 NHL season, the league introduced a trapezoidal area behind the goal line. The goalie may not touch the puck behind the goal line and outside of the trapezoidal area,


This rule was introduced to take away the advantage of having a goalie who could essentially become the third defenseman for a team. If a team dumped the puck in, Brodeur could race out of his net and take possession, clearing the puck to a teammate.

If you have a goalie as good as Martin Brodeur, then you are very fortunate. To clip an elite NHL goalie’s wings to bring his skill level down to everyone else, is a stupid rule!

That's because the media is full of dummies.

The reality is that the Martys rarely ever played the puck in the trapezoid. They used a combo of behind the net and stopping pucks before it ever entered the trapezoid.

Again, the rule actually decreased scoring because it was common for 5-10 goals per year to occur because of a goalie mishandling the puck in the trapezoid.

 

[Seath The Scaleless]

Corbin threw over to first base twice during the Olson AB and you knew Acuna was going to run on the next pitch (slipped + foul, ran again following pitch). Easy steal, something we'll say quite often this year

 

[Eyedea]

I still go back to my comment on this. If a hitter is a dead pull hitter, then the team on defense should be able to do whatever they feel is best to get the hitter out. If it means 4 outfielders (1 shallow) and a stacked infield on the hitters pull side, then why limit the defensive sides ability to maximize a chance in getting an out. This is similar to the terrible trapezoid rule in hockey......so a couple of the goalies perfected a unique skill in playing the puck (Brodeur is the main example), so the league decides to take that away and punish the few who had that elite ability.

I assume MLB is trying to create more offense, but it's also removing strategy.

Outfield shifting is still fair play so there is still opportunity for teams to shift their CF into shallow RF and LF to CF if they're up against an extreme lefty pull hitter.

 

[ACC1224]

As a casual fan, what can I expect from the Jays this year?

 

[TheBeastCoast]

As a casual fan, what can I expect from the Jays this year?

They are going to be good.

 

[Eyedea]

As a casual fan, what can I expect from the Jays this year?

Compete for the division title.

 

[ACC1224]

They are going to be good.

Compete for the division title.

Thank you.

It's what I expected to hear but it's nice to get confirmation.

Our the Yankees the main competition for the Division?