Manitoba Junior Hockey League Superthread

[oldunclehue]

The SJHL/MJHL showcase is going on right now at the Seven Oaks Sportsplex. I think the SJ went 3 for 3 in yesterday's games. Can't say I'm terribly interested myself, this seems like an event only scouts could care about. I can only wonder what kind of behind the scenes chatter is taking place between the head honchos though, haha.

I sent a message to Mike Sawatzky asking if he'd be getting a response from the Winnipeg club owners, who I assume is still Greg Fettes and Matt Cockell via PLAY Hockey, but he told me that those guys have refused to talk to the Free Press for quite some time. I know that Mike became persona non grata when he reported on the WHL's fine imposed on the ICE for failing to get a rink built, at that point he stopped covering the ICE altogether and was replaced on the ICE beat by Joshua Frey-Sam. The funny thing is that I don't think Fettes and Cockell talk to the Winnipeg Sun either after Scott Billeck blew the whistle on the Blues' and Freeze's attempts at evading pandemic restrictions on team activities a few years ago. That leaves Perry Bergson from the Brandon Sun, maybe he can get a quote from them about their thoughts and plans with all this league drama going on?

Anyway, thinking about taking a spin out to Portage this Sunday to see the Terriers take on the Blizzard.

Craig Button said today that within 18 months the ban on CHL players going to NCAA will be lifted. This will kill the CJHL leagues competition wise which will likely end in teams folding and eventually either the league folding, combining with other leagues (SJ/MJ/AJ) mix. But regardless of what they try, why would any top prospect NCAA type player even think of staying in the lower tier Junior now.

MJHL is pay to play everywhere except Wayway I believe. So if you are a top player looking to go the NCAA, now you can play and develop 4 years in the top league and pay nothing. Then get a scholarship afterwards. It's a no brainer.

Sad state of affairs for rural hockey in Manitoba and the future looks bleak. Most communities need top players to bring in fans, fans mean sponsorship and thats how they survive. If top players go and the level of competition goes down, people stop going and sponsors stop supporting.

Kevin SAURETTE better figure something out that doesn't involve only supporting Steinbach and Winkler...because he will be out of a job if this league keeps going the way it is.

 

[jetsmooseice]

MJHL is pay to play everywhere except Wayway I believe. So if you are a top player looking to go the NCAA, now you can play and develop 4 years in the top league and pay nothing. Then get a scholarship afterwards. It's a no brainer.

Shocking if true. I would have figured at the very least, the likes of Steinbach, Portage, Winkler, Virden and Niverville would cover the costs of playing?! I thought the Winnipeg teams were the only true pay to play teams. If this is the case then it's worse than I thought.

With these trends, maybe a Prairie Super League is the only way to make junior A work? Keep the stronger teams like Grande Prairie, Estevan, Steinbach and let the weaker teams from smaller places move to cheaper local junior B/C local leagues.

 

[oldunclehue]

Shocking if true. I would have figured at the very least, the likes of Steinbach, Portage, Winkler, Virden and Niverville would cover the costs of playing?! I thought the Winnipeg teams were the only true pay to play teams. If this is the case then it's worse than I thought.

With these trends, maybe a Prairie Super League is the only way to make junior A work? Keep the stronger teams like Grande Prairie, Estevan, Steinbach and let the weaker teams from smaller places move to cheaper local junior B/C local leagues.

If the CHL players can get NCAA scholarships, I don't see Junior A leagues surviving in the long haul. Most teams charge a "bus fee" or a "travel fee" to cover costs. I believe WayWay is the only one that doesn't, at least from what I've been told. Then the league charges each player a "Player Development fee" which was around $500 recently. So cost to play Junior A hockey are high....especially if you don't have a chance at advancing anymore.

Think...top end talent from Junior A teams are likely middle range players in the CHL. NCAA scouts will be going after top end CHL talent now vs top end Junior A talent.

NHL teams will like this as well, 4 more years to develop draft picks etc at a top end league that will now only get better. Plus players will get themselves a top end education as well.

So top end Junior A talent will get lost in the mix, either they will go CHL and try and get noticed for a scholarship, or they will be stuck at Junior A level which scouts won't care to recruit from...because why recruit from a lower level when the top talent in the country can now come to your program.

Plus...parents/advisors/agents will now be pushing all their kids to try and go CHL now...free to play, free equipement, skates, sticks, better development and competition....all while not playing.

I don't see even a super league working. Junior A leagues talent pool will dwindle and it will be glorified Junior B. Teams will lose fan support, sponsor support and then won't be able to pay the bills unless players fork out more money. Which...why would you. Go to University and play in the MMJHL in Winnipeg.

 

[jetsmooseice]

I don't see even a super league working. Junior A leagues talent pool will dwindle and it will be glorified Junior B. Teams will lose fan support, sponsor support and then won't be able to pay the bills unless players fork out more money. Which...why would you. Go to University and play in the MMJHL in Winnipeg.

Yeah, wow. When you put it in those stark terms it starts to feel like the end of the line for junior A hockey. You could easily see a situation like the one you describe where the top players head to the CHL, the more recreational-type players (i.e. those with no realistic shot of going pro or even NCAA scholarship) play local leagues like MMJHL, junior B, etc., and junior A just kind of fades away.

As a Winnipegger the MJHL is not a huge deal here but it is kind of sad to consider all the MJHL towns suddenly without their teams. The Terriers, Kings, Steelers, etc. all seem like such fixtures in their towns. Nothing would really replace that, there are no other prominent teams in those places. Hell, even the Winnipeg Blues have a storied past... they turn 100 years old in six years, they have 3 Memorial Cups to their name. That's a lot of history. It would be sad to see it all just disappear.

 

[oldunclehue]

Yeah, wow. When you put it in those stark terms it starts to feel like the end of the line for junior A hockey. You could easily see a situation like the one you describe where the top players head to the CHL, the more recreational-type players (i.e. those with no realistic shot of going pro or even NCAA scholarship) play local leagues like MMJHL, junior B, etc., and junior A just kind of fades away.

As a Winnipegger the MJHL is not a huge deal here but it is kind of sad to consider all the MJHL towns suddenly without their teams. The Terriers, Kings, Steelers, etc. all seem like such fixtures in their towns. Nothing would really replace that, there are no other prominent teams in those places. Hell, even the Winnipeg Blues have a storied past... they turn 100 years old in six years, they have 3 Memorial Cups to their name. That's a lot of history. It would be sad to see it all just disappear.

Yup, it won't happen overnight. The team in my town requires a lot of volunteers to work, lots of community support and sponsorship as well. If the competition in the league starts to dwindle as the top end players leave for the CHL. That will make the league less competitive, and already with attendance struggles in most places, less people will go. That also wades in to sponsorship, many businesses may look at lower attendance and cut their sponsorship as less eyes are seeing their marketing. Then teams which are already struggling with costs, will either have to charge players more to play, find different income paths or fold.

I don't see this being good for rural hockey in Canada. Many kids in our community idolize and love their Jr A players and team. It will take that away.

 

[jetsmooseice]

Well, the MJHL-SJHL showcase is over. The MJ went 1-5 against the SJ. Regular season action resumes Friday night.

 

[jetsmooseice]

The time off didn't do the local squads any favours. Blues lost to Wayway 11-2, and Neepawa beat the Freeze 5-0. Both teams are back in action today.

 

[jetsmooseice]

Well, the Freeze and Blues have pretty well picked right up where they left off now that the league is back in action after the MJ-SJ showcase. The Blues lost 4-1 to the Blizzard while the Freeze lost 6-1 to Dauphin.

Also, what the hell is going on in Portage, looks like the cops had to show up to settle down the fan melee at Stride Place last night. Bear spray was discharged and arrests were made lol. The Terriers beat Swan Valley 3-1.

 

[jetsmooseice]

So I drove out to Portage last night for the Terriers/Blizzard Sunday nighter. It was my first ever regular season game in Portage. Wow, what an experience. It felt closer to a WHL game than the beer league vibes of the Blues and Freeze games that I'm used to. The Terriers are a formidable team on the ice and the Blizzard played up to their opponent's level, with lots of fast end-to-end rushes and heavy hits in the corners. The Blizzard, playing their third game in three nights came out of the gate slow and struggled to catch up. They came close, making it 3-2 late in the third but couldn't get a tying goal. The Terriers were wearing theme jerseys that didn't have the players' names on them so it made it hard to know who's who given that I haven't seen Portage play yet this season.

Atmosphere at Stride Place is awesome, there was a good turnout and you can see the team spirit with so many people wearing Terriers gear. I don't know what exactly happened at the Terriers/Stampeders game on Saturday night that led to a police response and arrests, but they weren't playing around with the show of force on Sunday night. I have never seen so many police officers and security guards (the kind who look like they could mess you up behind a bar, not the kind who give disapproving looks while you fill your pockets with Meteor bars at Dollarama) at a junior hockey game before. But I didn't see any kind of questionable behaviour whatsoever, there was no friction at all between the handful of Blizzard fans and the Terriers faithful. Chalk it up to a wild and wooly Saturday night in Portage la Prairie, I guess.

 

[jetsmooseice]

The Freeze got off to a hot start last night in Niverville, they had a 3-1 lead after the first, lost it in the second, then clawed back to regain it before losing it again in a seesaw battle with the Nighthawks. Final score, 6-5 Niverville. Classic Winnipeg Freeze.

I was listening to some of the game while one of my kids was at swimming lessons. Man, they don't make it easy to find the Freeze play by play, there's no mention of it on the Freeze website. It's like they want to hide it. You kind of have to poke around the MJHL website to find it, and it's not even a link... you have to copy and paste the address into your browser. Let me save you the trouble ---> GameTime Radio

Their efforts to bury the PxP feed worked, there is a "listener meter" and while I was listening the total alternated between 2 and 3 people. So not exactly overwhelming numbers of listeners. The funny thing is that the PxP guy does a decent job all things considered, although admittedly he lacks the entertainment value of that Virden guy, haha

 

[jetsmooseice]

Well, not much of a playoff race this year. I think we knew where things were headed pretty much by Thanksgiving. At this point it's basically just jockeying for position. The only real playoff race left is Neepawa vs. Wayway for 4th in the MGEU West Division. They're 3 points apart. I guess Selkirk could theoretically catch Niverville in the East but they'd have to go on one helluva run to pull that off.

Kind of disappointing that there won't be any junior hockey playoffs in Winnipeg this spring. But there's always next year, amirite?

 

[jetsmooseice]

Their seasons have been over since before Christmas, but it's nice to see the Blues and Freeze earn some points this weekend. Freeze beat the struggling Stampeders 6-3 but then got blitzed 8-0 by the Blizzard. The Blues lost 6-2 to Steinbach but then managed to eke out a loser point against Dauphin with a 4-3 loss.

It will be interesting to see if many of the Blues and Freeze players stick around next season and continue to grow and develop, or if they all take off for greener pastures making way for the next round of pay to play revenue sources.

 

[jetsmooseice]

Nothing to see here, just a late-season termination of the first and only coach and GM of a team that currently sits in playoff position...

Incidentally, Virden pounded Niverville 7-1 a few nights ago. I wonder if words were had at the Nighthawks Gala fundraiser the day after?!?!

 

[jetsmooseice]

Steinbach Online delves deeper into the Nighthawks controversy. Apparently the team's board was underwhelmed by Cech's performance in recent months. They brought back the interim coach who covered for Cech while he was at the World Junior A Challenge.... Ouch

Still, a very interesting time to make such an impactful move.

Nighthawks part ways with Head Coach and GM Kelvin Cech

The Niverville Nighthawks have made a change relieving Head Coach and General Manager Kelvin Cech of his duties. Cech was hired in January of 2022, ahead of the Nighthawk's first-ever MJHL season.

steinbachonline.com

 

[jetsmooseice]

Man. As a Winnipeg MJHL fan, it's hard not to be a little envious at the news from Edmonton...

A deal has been reached between Strathcona County and the Sherwood Park Crusaders Hockey Society for a new $86-million multipurpose arena to be built in the community just east of Edmonton.

The arena is to be built in an eastern part of Sherwood Park north of Greenland Garden Centre and across from a development called Cambrian. The hockey club is hopeful the facility will open in September 2026.

The arrangement will see the Crusaders paying for the construction of the facility, which is to include a four-sheet, ice-rink arena that can seat at least 2,500 people in the primary arena, while Strathcona County will provide the club with land as well as $990,000 each year for 20 years “to support the operations and maintenance of the facility and provide an equity investment.”

The city said that when the 20-year deal expires, the Crusaders will return the equity investment of $4 million to the county.

The arrangement will also include the Crusaders offer of at least 2,430 hours of ice time each year to the county for “community-based activities.”

“Entering into this type of partnership opens up possibilities,” Frank said. “It’s innovative and a win-win for all.

Strathcona County reaches deal with Sherwood Park Crusaders on $86M hockey arena - Edmonton | Globalnews.ca

A deal has been reached between Strathcona County and the Sherwood Park Crusaders Hockey Society that will see a new $86-million multipurpose arena be built in the community.

globalnews.ca

Could you imagine the Blues and the Freeze making something like this happen in (or just outside) Winnipeg? Honestly, it should have been the ICE reaching a deal like this.

 

[jetsmooseice]

Not quite sure what's going on down there in Niverville but the Nighthawks lost again last night, that's 10 of their last 11 and their playoff spot is on the verge of slipping away if this goes on any longer. The coaching change doesn't seem to have had much of an impact, something has really gone off the rails for them.

 

[DiggityDawg]

Just curious…are there expansion talks for next year. I see the divisions are lopsided by one team, setting up an opportunity to expand and even the league out. I did hear a rumour but partially believe and can see it...any info?

 

[jetsmooseice]

Just curious…are there expansion talks for next year. I see the divisions are lopsided by one team, setting up an opportunity to expand and even the league out. I did hear a rumour but partially believe and can see it...any info?

That is interesting, I can imagine that there is interest in balancing the divisions, but at the same time this may not be the greatest time for expansion with all the junior hockey upheaval going on right now. All the changes may have a negative impact on the talent pool for junior A and it might be tough to add another team into the mix, especially given that the MJ is already arguably the weakest of the western junior A leagues.

That said, I wonder where the expansion interest is coming from? There aren't many places that could conceivably support a team. Just a few possibilities, off the top of my head:

-Does Beausejour want another shot at the MJHL?
-Brandon could theoretically support another junior team
-Thompson could be good although the travel costs would be a huge hurdle to overcome
-Altona's rink is on the small side but it's possible to imagine another Pembina Valley team
-Morris could be desirable too but it already has a MMJHL team, I'm not sure if the MJ would be embraced.
-Stonewall could be another Niverville-type situation and their arena is nice but they too have a longstanding MMJHL team

Beyond that and you are getting into really small communities, often without decent arenas (like Gimli, Carberry and Killarney), or places that are too close to existing MJHL towns (like Minnedosa, Roblin/Russell and Morden).

I wonder if as opposed to adding another team it might make more sense to put the Freeze in play and have them relocate somewhere else if the demand is there, or just have the Freeze fold altogether. But that depends on what the team owners want, it's possible they are making enough money from the pay to play thing that they decide to keep the Freeze around for the long haul.

 

[DiggityDawg]

That is interesting, I can imagine that there is interest in balancing the divisions, but at the same time this may not be the greatest time for expansion with all the junior hockey upheaval going on right now. All the changes may have a negative impact on the talent pool for junior A and it might be tough to add another team into the mix, especially given that the MJ is already arguably the weakest of the western junior A leagues.

That said, I wonder where the expansion interest is coming from? There aren't many places that could conceivably support a team. Just a few possibilities, off the top of my head:

-Does Beausejour want another shot at the MJHL?
-Brandon could theoretically support another junior team
-Thompson could be good although the travel costs would be a huge hurdle to overcome
-Altona's rink is on the small side but it's possible to imagine another Pembina Valley team
-Morris could be desirable too but it already has a MMJHL team, I'm not sure if the MJ would be embraced.
-Stonewall could be another Niverville-type situation and their arena is nice but they too have a longstanding MMJHL team

Beyond that and you are getting into really small communities, often without decent arenas (like Gimli, Carberry and Killarney), or places that are too close to existing MJHL towns (like Minnedosa, Roblin/Russell and Morden).

I wonder if as opposed to adding another team it might make more sense to put the Freeze in play and have them relocate somewhere else if the demand is there, or just have the Freeze fold altogether. But that depends on what the team owners want, it's possible they are making enough money from the pay to play thing that they decide to keep the Freeze around for the long haul.

so there’s no rumblings of expansion in your travels. The rumour I had heard was the possibility of an amerIcan team joining the mjhl. Yes the two Winnipeg teams joining forces or one dropping out would make more sense considering the state of both teams. Shocks me that they are so weak.

 

[jetsmooseice]

so there’s no rumblings of expansion in your travels. The rumour I had heard was the possibility of an amerIcan team joining the mjhl. Yes the two Winnipeg teams joining forces or one dropping out would make more sense considering the state of both teams. Shocks me that they are so weak.

I'm no travelling man, I'm in Winnipeg most of the time

The idea of an American team is interesting, there are a few contenders that are not too far from the border. I assume any American town interested in the MJ is one that has been rejected by the USHL/NAHL? Fargo is in the USHL, Thief River Falls is in the SIJHL and Minot is in the NAHL, so I'm not sure who else would be interested... I guess Grand Forks could support a team to MJHL levels... maybe Devils Lake? Grafton? Rugby?

The Winnipeg teams are kind of sad, it's like ownership doesn't even try, on the ice or off. The pay to play cheques clear and that's the end of it. The experience of attending a Blues/Freeze game is indistinguishable from going to a U15AAA game.

 

[jetsmooseice]

I haven't posted much in this thread lately because it seems not much is really going on, the teams are basically waiting for the playoffs at this point. The only real question is whether Wayway and Selkirk can battle back into contention for playoff spots.

Haven't been to a game lately but now that my kids' seasons are done I'm looking forward to getting back to the HFAC to cheer on the Blues/Freeze as they limp towards the finish line.

 

[jetsmooseice]

Interesting to read about the Yorkton Terriers meeting their season ticket drive goals... they went from 162 season tickets to 931 and counting for next season. That's impressive.

I wonder what the MJ's season ticket bases look like? I realize MJHL attendance data is spotty but the chart below at least provides some idea...

Some of those teams in the top half must have season ticket bases into the hundreds but at the low end, I wonder if the Freeze and Blues even have 100 season ticket holders between them. I was once a Blues and Freeze STH by virtue of early renewal of my Winnipeg ICE season tickets (the Blues/Freeze tickets were thrown in), but as you can imagine between ICE season tickets, the odd Jets/Moose game and my other commitments, there wasn't much time to go watch the MJ.

I am on the Blues/Freeze mailing lists but I don't think I have ever received one e-mail blast pushing season tickets. They don't really try.

I could see Steinbach running away with this title next year once their new barn opens.

 

[jetsmooseice]

New power rankings came out and look who's number one again... OCN. They've won 10 in a row! That's pretty amazing, they didn't look that dominant when I saw them in Portage last month but I guess they've found a higher gear.

Also, what's going on with the PRAIRIE SUPER LEAGUE? After a brief explosion of news a month or two ago it's been crickets since.

 

[jetsmooseice]

Judging by their scores this week, it looks like the Blues and Freeze have folded up their tents for the season...

Mar. 13 WPG Blues 0 Portage 7
Mar. 12 Winkler 10 WPG Freeze 0
Mar. 12 Neepawa 10 WPG Blues 2

Both teams are a combined 0-13 so far in March. Not that the Winnipeg media covers the MJHL, but it would be interesting to hear a few comments on this situation from team management.

 

[jetsmooseice]

And with that the regular season is over, and the playoffs are about to begin. The brackets are set thusly:

The puck drops on Friday!