Management Thread Blurst of Times

[Diablo2020]

Pens offered 2 1sts for Miller, Yager and Helenius went where they eventually picked.

Exactly this ^^^

I wanna pin this for the "who plays center" crowd everytime someone speaks of dumping Ep40.

Maybe the players themselves are not what we need, I will be the first to admit it. Neither player is coming in tomorrow to matchup against the West's best centers for us.

But what they are, is the GREATEST currency in the game today. Young, ELC, RHC's playing in North America.

Basically everything we WILL NEED to make the actual proper additions. Everything we dont have in the orginization today.

Allvin has shown time after time its never the first deal its the end result. Took a couple moves to land on Hronek, took a couple moves to land on Mpetey, tried to reflip Lindholm when Guentzel was available, ect.

We're literally in the Mike Keenan era again where no one is safe. Guys are traded mere months after signing here as UFAs.

Just because Geoff Sanderson is in the proposal today doesnt mean Brad May isnt the end result, for a Keenan reference.

We get a Yager or two back for Miller or Ep40 and we now have what every team wants back for their established center, getting a young center back.

We hardly have the assets to recreate the Bo Horvat trade but for us unless we decimate the defense prospects.

A few quarters for our dollar, then using those quarters elsewhere is the only path to building a contender IMO.

Starts with Ep40, should have started with that Pittsburgh deal you posted above.

 

[Wisp]

Exactly this ^^^

I wanna pin this for the "who plays center" crowd everytime someone speaks of dumping Ep40.

Maybe the players themselves are not what we need, I will be the first to admit it. Neither player is coming in tomorrow to matchup against the West's best centers for us.

But what they are, is the GREATEST currency in the game today.

Your 'greatest currency' is still just futures and asking for a rebuild. They're not playing in the NHL anytime soon, if at all, CHL prospects like Yager implode from transitioning from CHL to pro all the time, it's very volatile. That's fine if you want to risk that in a rebuild. But what you want puts an end to the Hughes era immediately.

Pettersson isn't returning that after the season he had, btw. The only teams interested in acquiring him are bargain shopping. Perhaps people will be interested in paying that if he has a bounce back season and puts this nightmare campaign behind him... But if he has a bounce back season, you don't want to be trading him either because why would you want to blow up your window by trading a PPG+ 2-way center?

Even the Canucks recognize the only way forward is helping the player get right. They're not leaking they're hoping he spends the off-season in Vancouver because they think they'll solve all their problems trading him at the draft.

 

[Diablo2020]

Your 'greatest currency' is still just futures and asking for a rebuild. That's fine if you want that. But what you want puts an end to the Hughes era immediately.

Pettersson isn't returning that after the season he had, btw. The only teams interested in acquiring him are bargain shopping. Perhaps people will be interested in paying that if he has a bounce back season and puts this nightmare campaign behind him... But if he has a bounce back season, you don't want to be trading him either because why would you want to trade a PPG+ 2-way center?

Even the Canucks recognize this. They're not leaking they're hoping he spends the off-season in Vancouver because they think they'll solve all their problems trading him at the draft.

I will use Marco Rossi off the top of my head as an example.

I personally dont like him because of his size but at 23 with a 60 point season he is everything we need today.

Is Minny trading the 23 year old asking for 8,000,000 for a 31 year old Jt Miller already making 8,000,000? Probably not.

Is Minny trading the 23 year old center for an 11,600,000 Elias Pettersson? Probably not.

Is Minny likely to trade the 23 year old center to us for defense prospects and picks? Probably not.

Would Minny consider trading us their 23 year old center if they recieved a 20 year old center making 950k back?

WAYYYYYYYY more likely yes.

In one offseason we could or could have sold a player like Miller or Pettersson then used those assets elsewhere because young RHCs are in fact the greatest currency ever.

 

[Wisp]

I will use Marco Rossi off the top of my head as an example.

I personally dont like him because of his size but at 23 with a 60 point season he is everything we need today.

Is Minny trading the 23 year old asking for 8,000,000 for a 31 year old Jt Miller already making 8,000,000? Probably not.

Is Minny trading the 23 year old center for an 11,600,000 Elias Pettersson? Probably not.

Is Minny likely to trade the 23 year old center to us for defense prospects and picks? Probably not.

Would Minny consider trading us their 23 year old center if they recieved a 20 year old center making 950k back?

WAYYYYYYYY more likely yes.

In one offseason we could or could have sold a player like Miller or Pettersson then used those assets elsewhere because young RHCs are in fact the greatest currency ever.

All of what you're proposing is pure fantasy GM. It doesn't work that way in real life. Conditionally it requires another team valuing Pettersson enough to give you those prospects and then Minnesota also has to value those prospects you acquire to give you the NHL player for them. If a team doesn't value your assets the same way you do or values another team more, you're done, end of story.

And the end of the day, the object of this is exercise is for Marco Rossi? Lmao. I am not trying to be mean but "Just do this and this and this in one offseason" is not a great thought experiment.

 

[Diablo2020]

All of what you're proposing is pure fantasy GM. It doesn't work that way in real life. Conditionally it requires another team valuing Pettersson enough to give you those prospects and then Minnesota also has to value those prospects you acquire to give you the NHL player for them. If a team doesn't value your assets the same way you do or values another team more, you're done, end of story.

And the end of the day, the object of this is exercise is for Marco Rossi? Lmao. I am not trying to be mean but "Just do this and this and this in one offseason" is not a great thought experiment.

Making two trades to land on Hronek is pure fantasy land.

Making two trades to land on Mpetey is pure fantasy land.

I hate to break it to you, thats our reality now. We have NO assets. So once we get some by selling off our dollars, we tend to keep using them immedietly to patch holes.

Its the cutting corners retool on the fly approach and it sucks but thats where we are. None of it is fantasy land. Its whats required to get better when you having nothing anyone wants.

 

[Wisp]

Nah you're unhinged.

 

[F A N]

I am bringing this up in the context of trading him at any point during his contract.
Doesn’t matter why he sucked or how excusable it was, he was bad in year 1 and I think it was pretty public about how nobody wanted him.
He was great in year 2 and ended with blood clots so yeah nobody is going to trade for him until he shows he’s healthy.
Then year 3 (this year) he got concussed and basically sucked for like 20 games prior to TDL.

I don't think I'm following where you're going with this. Of course it matters why Boeser was bad. But in the context of trading him during last offseason I think we can agree that it makes a huge difference that Boeser was coming off a 40 goal 73 point performance + playoff performance with one year left on his contract that pays him $6.65M AAV vs Boeser who was coming off two bad seasons with 2 years left at $6.65 cap hit.

Certainly you would agree that Boeser was tradeable at last year's trade deadline should the Canucks desire to so he as tradeable at some point during his contract.

If the argument is that "nobody is going to trade for him until he shows he's healthy" because his season ended with blood clots I disagree. It may discourage a team from what they would otherwise have paid to acquire him but certainly with only 1 year left on his deal at $6.65M cap hit I think the risk is low.

Don't get me wrong, blood clots are a serious issue but at the same time one would think that Boeser has been thoroughly medically examined give the serious nature. IIRC, Boeser's blood clots didn't cause complications like DVT and he did not require surgery. He was also cleared for offseason training.

 

[Breakers]

It’s funny how we have missed the playoffs 8 of the last 10 years
And 1 of those 2 years was a world wide epidemic that gave us a golden ticket to get in

Like this organization is toxic and has rot in it

I don’t know how people defend Aquilini on this site as there is a few notable members

 

[PuckMunchkin]

It’s funny how we have missed the playoffs 8 of the last 10 years
And 1 of those 2 years was a world wide epidemic that gave us a golden ticket to get in

Like this organization is toxic and has rot in it

I don’t know how people defend Aquilini on this site as there is a few notable members

Well. Ive been told that the reason you feel that way is something called "video game logic."

 

[Bleach Clean]

Well. Ive been told that the reason you feel that way is something called "video game logic."

Management bought into that "rot".

What we saw unfold these last 2 years is the arrogance in thinking a 1-2 year contention window would open immediately given the bereft state of this franchise. Absolute lunacy.

It goes from Aqua down, but these experienced managers championed it too, lest we forget.

They should try playing some video games, for a change. Would only help them.

 

[mriswith]

It’s funny how we have missed the playoffs 8 of the last 10 years
And 1 of those 2 years was a world wide epidemic that gave us a golden ticket to get in

Like this organization is toxic and has rot in it

I don’t know how people defend Aquilini on this site as there is a few notable members

 

[andora]

Here we go again

 

[ExarKun80]

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TG just made the playoffs with the Senators. We laughed at thim but he worked with what Jimbo and Aqua gave him. I would not blame him for not doing much with that terrible Benning build defence.

 

[mriswith]

TG just made the playoffs with the Senators. We laughed at thim but he worked with what Jimbo and Aqua gave him. I would not blame him for not doing much with that terrible Benning build defence.

Every single player on our team got worse the longer they played for Green and every promising player that he encountered in the minors before coming up to the NHL was ruined. There's only a few exceptions.

You're right he had poop to work with but all he did was take that poop and water it down into a diarrhea sludge

 

[I am toxic]

TG just made the playoffs with the Senators. We laughed at thim but he worked with what Jimbo and Aqua gave him. I would not blame him for not doing much with that terrible Benning build defence.

In a division with DET, BOS, MTL, and BUF

 

[Ernie]

Green had his good moments and his bad. I don't think he was a terrible coach, but he didn't seem to be able to motivate the players much and didn't have much of a system. But he was a massive upgrade over Willie Desjardins at the very least.

First time head coaches are rarely successful.

 

[PuckMunchkin]

TG just made the playoffs with the Senators. We laughed at thim but he worked with what Jimbo and Aqua gave him. I would not blame him for not doing much with that terrible Benning build defence.

I never bought in to the idea that he was a terrible coach.

Also. He likely has learned from his time here and is now a better coach then when we had him.

 

[I am toxic]

Green had his good moments and his bad. I don't think he was a terrible coach, but he didn't seem to be able to motivate the players much and didn't have much of a system. But he was a massive upgrade over Willie Desjardins at the very least.

First time head coaches are rarely successful.

Green stepped up when covid decimated the team, when the owner and management crawled under a rock like slimy gutless cowards

I will give him that. He was not a massive upgrade on Willie D - like, maybe the difference between a muon neutrino and a tau neutrino

But. We. Just. Don't. Know

 

[Rejavanated]

Green stepped up when covid decimated the team, when the owner and management crawled under a rock like slimy gutless cowards

I will give him that. He was not a massive upgrade on Willie D - like, maybe the difference between a muon neutrino and a tau neutrino

But. We. Just. Don't. Know

I know that I like tau better than pi.

 

[larueskee]

Mgmt threw away this season going into it with the defense they did. And narrowly avoided a total catastrophe in net on top of it, the season would have been over in November again if Silovs had the reigns. Created a lot of the drama and media circus by fanning the flames publicly and made the conflict on the team escalate with idiotic decisions like telling JT to get on EP's ass. Really poor management in several areas.

Sure they didn't predict the forwards being terrible this year but the lucky signing in net at the last minute counterbalances that bad luck, and this team makes the playoffs with an earlier MP trade even with everything else that went wrong. It was incredibly obvious that the d was the problem with the team and nothing else was even close, not even pacing ~60 points EP.

I am comfortable with their ability to assess forward talent so their skills are well suited to our current problems; however, I'm very pessimistic about market conditions, particularly the upcoming scarcity of forward talent available as the cap skyrockets.

The farm is a massive success story this year and reason to be optimistic about the farm moving forward. Also makes it all the more painful that we didn't collect assets a few years ago when we could have easily done so without significantly effecting the trajectory of the team.

Yes I agree. Sure Cole had a couple of playoff games when pucks bounced off of him into the net but the dude was solid the series before. He did not cost anymore than all of the other srubs mgmt brought in. I been hearing a lot about the drop off in scoring of 44 goals for but the defense gave up 26 more as well. Net 70 goal differential from last year. That cannot happen at any league level.

 

[Ernie]

Yes I agree. Sure Cole had a couple of playoff games when pucks bounced off of him into the net but the dude was solid the series before. He did not cost anymore than all of the other srubs mgmt brought in. I been hearing a lot about the drop off in scoring of 44 goals for but the defense gave up 26 more as well. Net 70 goal differential from last year. That cannot happen at any league level.

Virtually all the difference in goals against comes down to goaltending. Last season the team had 22 goals saved above expected. This season that number is -8.

 

[I am toxic]

I know that I like tau better than pi.

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[Zippgunn]

Green had his good moments and his bad. I don't think he was a terrible coach, but he didn't seem to be able to motivate the players much and didn't have much of a system. But he was a massive upgrade over Willie Desjardins at the very least.

First time head coaches are rarely successful.

Funny, Willie was a game under .500 with us but Green was 14 under...

 

[SeawaterOnIce]

Green had his good moments and his bad. I don't think he was a terrible coach, but he didn't seem to be able to motivate the players much and didn't have much of a system. But he was a massive upgrade over Willie Desjardins at the very least.

First time head coaches are rarely successful.

Green had zero answers sometimes and was horribly outcoached in the AHL and NHL playoff series and had to rely on spectacular goaltending to see them through. He was also an arrogant piece of shit at times.

But it could be like an Alain Vigneault situation where a crappy coach with an ego got humbled and quickly learned on the fly and became a decent NHL coach.

 

[Ernie]

Funny, Willie was a game under .500 with us but Green was 14 under...

1234 Willie?

He still had a good team that had an instilled culture and good habits. Top 4 defense was Hamhuis, Tanev, Edler, Bieksa. Sedins were still almost point per game, Vrbata scored 30 goals etc.