this management team arguably hasn't added a single *clear* top 6 forward in three plus seasons. lindholm maybe but he was a rental. debrusk maybe but he's just not really very good. you really think they're gonna add one a year from here on out? with what?
Management Thread Blurst of Times
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this management team arguably hasn't added a single *clear* top 6 forward in three plus seasons. lindholm maybe but he was a rental. debrusk maybe but he's just not really very good. you really think they're gonna add one a year from here on out? with what?
Hansen
tyler motte simp
I honestly think that the Miller/Pettersson situation doesnt boil over if they hadnt f***ed up the D in the offseason and made the Pettersson trade earlier in the first half. We'd probably be in a playoff position, and we wouldnt do great but the window would still be open.
Diablo2020
Registered User
This team is that MacLaren parked in the trailer park meme.
Or is it a Quinn Hughes Bugatti?
Either way your right we will never have another supercar but dude look around us, we're living in a trailer park. We have nothing in the bank. Everyone at work is leapfrogging us.
We cannot use credit cards to build a life around our supercar and we dont have anything else to barter with.
rypper
21-12-05 it's finally over.
- Dec 22, 2006
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Let me get this straight, you just said they didn’t add one but they added two but nah that doesn’t count so therefore what makes us think they can?
no i said they haven't added any players of the calibre they need to add and even if you stretch the definition of top line forward they've only added debrusk and ~30 games of lindholm
Oh so you just shifted your stance from can’t add top 6 forward to top line forward, got it.
Yes they haven’t added a top line forward so why should we have faith that they can. Well let’s see what they have done.
Add top pairing D - check
Add top 4 D - check
Add D with top4 paring upside via draft or trade - both check
Add forward that far exceed their cap value - check check
Add top 6 forward via UFA - check
Considering that they have shown they are able to add quality, on a budget or at a more substantial cost, to every single part of the roster outside of the top line so far, I don’t know why it’s a stretch to think that it’s actually they have YET to acquire a top line forward vs they are not able to acquire a top line forward.
Diablo2020
Registered User
No I'll double down and agree with a point you made above somewhere. The elite IS the hardest part to get. And once you have them, then you need to hit a smaller homerun to surround them with the last missing core pieces.
You can just scroll to the very bottom for my shining example.. but here is a longer spiel I made like a month ago.
My good friend is a Capitals fan his whole life. Like back to Olaf Kolzig, Petr Bondra days.
Ive watched this guys team absolutely tear it down to the studs.
Jagr, Lang, Gonchar, Bondra, Nylander top 5 leading scorers one year, EVERY SINGLE ONE traded within 12 months.
Konowalchuk, #69 -> Bates Battaglia, Jonas Johansson
Jagr -> Anson Carter
Bondra -> Brooks Laich, #52
Lang -> Tomas Fleishmann, #29, #122
Gonchar -> Shaone Morrisonn, #27, #62
Grier -> Jakub Klepis
Nylander -> #35, #118
Absolute massacre. No one was safe.
Nylander, whom they just traded for, gone in 3 games.
6 games in the captain continues the exodus. (Kono)
Bonzai (bondra), Lang, Gonchar as mike commodore would say, pack your ****.
They melted alot of the picks they recieved. But when you have THAT much quantity your bound to hit some.
Schultz, Green, Varly, Neuvirth = Good.
Pokoluk, Finley, Bouchard, Bourque = Bad
But what this allowed them to do, was TANK.
Alex Ovechkin #1 Overall.
Niklas Backstron #4 Overall.
Still bad enough for Karl Alzner #5 Overall.
Boom. Nucleus.
Next three years, #21, #24, #26 Overall and a decent team. (still added Mojo and Kuzy with those picks)
So three years and the table was set.
Since then ive watched this team become an absolute powerhouse, even winning a cup.
And now to my dismay, somehow when the wheels should be falling off, yet again their at the top of the damn standings with core prospects like Leonard making NHL debuts.
Ive watched them burn it down quickly and efficiently then be a successful franchise for a decade while Vancouver brings in Loui Eriksson to appease the Twins instead of rebuilding.
Ive watched OV score enough goals to tie Wayne Gretzky and my team is clinging to all hope and couldnt even trade 20 goal men at the deadline as they were "worthless".
I want some of what other teams have damnit. Maybe it starts with Frankie but for **** sake we could have rebuilded like 5 times by now.
* TLDR after all that, they traded Steve Eminger for the pick that became John Carlson and he was the last core added before they won a stanley cup.
So burn it down, get more than one elite if your lucky, then make the Eminger trade for your missing piece.
But your kidding yourself if you think we have the nucleus in place to just build around the elite one we have today.
it's because these players are the hardest to add and they've struck out on everyone they've pursued in this category. if anything they're down two top line forwards since taking over this team with boeser probably walking this summer
Top paring D is the hardest piece to acquire outside of 1C and superstars and they acquired one.
Also yeah it has been a priority to get a top line guy, but considering what Benning left behind, there were a lot of other priorities too like fixing the D, forward depth along with top line talent. Ideally they can fix all of that in 3 seasons but guess what we had no cap, no picks, no prospects and a bunch of anchor contracts. So after 3 years we went from that that now basically one of the top defensive unit that is young, young and deep bottom 6 with holes at the top.
You can’t fix all the problems are once but they have solved a lot of the problems in a reasonable amount of time. I don’t know if they can fix the top line this off season but I think it’s reasonable to assume they can get a couple more 2nd line guys at the very least and see if they can seize any opportunity to get a top line guy in the coming year or two.
Diablo2020
Registered User
at the cost of their 1c. i'm not gonna be impressed if they swap hughes for a top line winger either
i guess we'll agree to disagree that this team is in good shape and they just need to make a free agent signing and a trade deadline deal and they'll be right back in it
they need *5* top six forwards from where i'm sitting and that's if pettersson can get back to being a 70+ point guy again.
They do not need 5 top 6 forwards, that’s bat shit insane shit. Let’s look at last years cup champion, they have 4 forwards over 41 points with the 5th one scoring 41 (Bennett) who probably could’ve put up 50 if he wasn’t injured as much. So technically the cup champion has 5 top 6 forward, or at least 5 guys that can score over 50 points.
We have at least 2 right now with Petey and Debrusk, let’s just assume for fun that Garland should not be considered as one. So you think we should add 5 more so that means we should have 7 guys that can put up 50+ which is even more than what the cup champion has. Hell VGK only had 6 when they won their cup.
What the f*** are we doing here? Are you honestly arguing the bar is having the deepest team since??? And if we don’t get that done by next season, then this management is incompetent?
Diablo2020
Registered User
Reinhart had 52 goals when we might not even have a 50 point forward this year.
Reinhart was the 6th highest PPG for Florida forwards in the playoffs, while leading the forwards in TOI.
They had depth we dont have.
We definetly need about 5 top 6 forwards yup.
Garland is not a 2nd liner on a contender sorry.
Debrusk is maybe a 2nd liner on a bad contender.
Pettersson, is miles from Barkov allowing you to have a 41 point Bennett as your 5th best forward.
Boeser and Suter are likely to leave.
i didn't say either of these things. i just disagree with you that this team is in good shape and it'll be relatively easy to add to their top 6. i think they'll almost certainly be worse next year than this year (talent wise -- they may have better results on ice because of better health or whatever) and it'll take at least a few years for them to get back to where they were last season
Reverend Mayhem
Lowly Serf/Reluctant Cuckold
Lots of fans want to recreate how the 2011 roster was constructed (to be fair, it was near perfect), but forget that team was basically made of a whole bunch of players who played a bottom-6 game. Including the Sedins. That's why Burrows worked with them. It takes a special kind of player to play a game along the boards effectively for essentially 15 years.
I still don't think many fans appreciate how the Sedins evolved their game, and the abuse they had to take with it, to become the players they ended up being. They played a grinder's game, with quick hands and minds sharper than scissors. I think they'd take this as a compliment, but their actual hockey "skills" were so under the norm...I'm pretty sure I can take a harder slapshot than Henrik does but it doesn't matter bc he's loads smarter.
Goatlender
Goat in the water
- Jan 27, 2016
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I agree. I know it’s beating a dead horse at this point, but it all depends on what Hughes intends to do. If he leaves as a UFA, the team either needs to push all their chips in over the next two years to contend, or rebuild. If he stays, then we have like 5+ years to acquire a few quality top 6 players and round out the roster. Assuming Petey can play like a top 6 forward again as well.
Reverend Mayhem
Lowly Serf/Reluctant Cuckold
I don't want EP to return to his original form. I want him to become the PPG Selke candidate he was always meant to be.
holdon the sec, you just said this team needs 5 more top6 players, that was what I was responding to. 5 more top6 players would equate to the deepest team in the NHL in the cap era.
2nd point, 100% disagree that we will take a few years to get back to where we were last season. The team is just built differently now compared to last year. We have now one of the best PK in the league, a top 10 D unit that can now facilitate offense (which we were not capable of doing last season) and potentially one of the best goalie tandems in the league. The bottom 6 is stronger and the top6 really depends on Petey.
You mention that Petey if he recovers his form will be a 70pt guy.. want to take a bet there? you seem so certain that is his ceiling right.
Looking at that team, we only had 4 forwards over 50 points and the 5th one is Burrows with 48, and that was one of the deepest teams we've seen in the league.
I think some fans such as @credulous just has this illusion that cup winning teams have like 3 lines of top6 forwards killing it when in reality that has never actually happened. Even the TBL at their peak don't have that kind of depth and somehow that is the bar we have to hit, and we have to hit it by like tomorrow or we should just fold up shop and rebuild.
theguardianII
Registered User
- Jan 30, 2020
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I want to see another Horvat, Boeser, Demko, Pettersson, Hughes but they don't come in trades until late in life usually.
I want the best draft prospects on a team all close in age not one added every year or longer over a five year period. That is how to make a rebuild last forever and likely fail.
It might be rolling the dice on a pick but they have much better ways of evaluating players now. Montreal, Devils and Coyotes knew something that is why Wright didn't get picked at his ranking, #1 overall. That has proved out. Seattle had a much smaller scouting staff, still Wright is not a total loss.
I really think Hughes highest value is while he has one more full season left, that is insurance for the team trading for him so they can be more bold in giving up assets.
Again, IMO, if they can get Misa this year and deal Hughes for McKenna next year and use their own 1rst in that draft plus what they might get IF IF IF they trade Demko that would be without tanking, a scorched earth tear down and the marketing for the Canucks, come watch his last season here plus the chat about either doom and gloom or rainbows and lollipops, interest, in the news both ways but there would be talk of the future with real and many young studs in the line up with real potential for growth rather than the old story of a 23 year old Hughes being the only young guy with 5 years of NHL games, real young guys.
There would also be potential trades and cap space for FA offers all during the worst of the OEL buyout.
A bottom team trading would have the confidence that the NJD would make a very good offer, That team would have been rebuilding for a few years so they could get "instant gratification" in that trade.
No doubt some teams would make massive offers but whoever they trade will not be of the same caliber and those offered will be too much older even if only 23 yrs old.
Hughes is second only to Makar in point production over the last 4 years and Makar plays on a great team or at least very much better.
I want the best draft prospects on a team all close in age not one added every year or longer over a five year period. That is how to make a rebuild last forever and likely fail.
It might be rolling the dice on a pick but they have much better ways of evaluating players now. Montreal, Devils and Coyotes knew something that is why Wright didn't get picked at his ranking, #1 overall. That has proved out. Seattle had a much smaller scouting staff, still Wright is not a total loss.
I really think Hughes highest value is while he has one more full season left, that is insurance for the team trading for him so they can be more bold in giving up assets.
Again, IMO, if they can get Misa this year and deal Hughes for McKenna next year and use their own 1rst in that draft plus what they might get IF IF IF they trade Demko that would be without tanking, a scorched earth tear down and the marketing for the Canucks, come watch his last season here plus the chat about either doom and gloom or rainbows and lollipops, interest, in the news both ways but there would be talk of the future with real and many young studs in the line up with real potential for growth rather than the old story of a 23 year old Hughes being the only young guy with 5 years of NHL games, real young guys.
There would also be potential trades and cap space for FA offers all during the worst of the OEL buyout.
A bottom team trading would have the confidence that the NJD would make a very good offer, That team would have been rebuilding for a few years so they could get "instant gratification" in that trade.
No doubt some teams would make massive offers but whoever they trade will not be of the same caliber and those offered will be too much older even if only 23 yrs old.
Hughes is second only to Makar in point production over the last 4 years and Makar plays on a great team or at least very much better.
Reverend Mayhem
Lowly Serf/Reluctant Cuckold
Going thru my own memory. So sorry if I'm a bit off...but the top-6 bonafide guys on that team in that league are the Sedins and Kesler.....that's about it.
So 3 actual top-6 guys. Burr was great but not enough skill. He took us as far as he could. And it *just* wasn't enough.
I don't think people realize how flawed that team actually was. But most teams were back then. Like, play keep-away, and I take that team 10 times o' 10.
Even in the SCF, underhanded, we beat the B's. We controlled the puck. In our losses as well. But OTR, (off the rush), we lost big. Ryder flayed us. The only better shot in the series was Kesler and I think he was too "my shoulder is torn off the joint" to do anything about it.
you're comparing a season where 96 players scored 50+ and only one scored 100+ to a modern season. 135 players scored 50+ last year and 9 broke 100 points
debrusk and garland are tied for 140th in league scoring (pettersson is at 133) this season. that makes them the equivalent of chris higgins and clarke macarthur in 2012
