Management Thread Blurst of Times

[theguardianII]

Long term view meaning what though? You lose Hughes if you rebuild.

I’ve been on team tank plenty of times before, it doesn’t make sense to do it when Hughes has pretty much publicly stated he’s done with rebuilds.

Not a rebuild! No need if they trade Hughes before he can walk.
If they let him walk or even wait until until his contract runs out a trade then will be 10% of what they can get a year before. Even if they wait until the TDL that year the number of teams will be reduced and the player selections will be considerably less.
No player of his stature will not already have a clause in their contracts so a huge loss of value, unless that team has McKenna and is willing to make that deal that includes him, but not likely because that team will be out of the PO picture with 3/4 of the season done.

Understand me here, Hughes is a great player but he isn't the team. And the team's endgame should be the cup or conference title. IMO he has that type of value especially if he is dealt with one more year left on his contract. If dealt before the end of the season he that team has a chance to sign him for 8 years.

Quebec trade drafted Lindros for a huge haul and then Colorado became a beast for 13 years from the proceeds. Hughes could be bigger as an established super star.

 

[arttk]

Didn't Forbort also miss a stretch or two at the beginning of the season?

too many .. forgot

 

[credulous]

The biggest indictment for management is that they are likely going to miss the playoffs two out of the three last years where Quinn Hughes has arguably been the best defensemen in the league with one of the best and most efficient contracts in the league.

i think getting pennies for the dollar on both horvat and miller and going into their "window" with teddy blueger as their second best center signed beyond this season is a bigger indictment but you've definitely identified the second biggest indictment

 

[Hodgy]

i think getting pennies for the dollar on both horvat and miller and going into their "window" with teddy blueger as their second best center signed beyond this season is a bigger indictment but you've definitely identified the second biggest indictment

Ya, that obviously ended up being very poor management. My point was more that they inherited Quinn Hughes who provided perhaps the best value for cap dollar in the NHL and yet have almost totally squandered that. And next year doesn't look to be any better. I guess in fairness to them, you have to look at the OEL buyout as well which they effectively inherited.

 

[F A N]

Understand me here, Hughes is a great player but he isn't the team. And the team's endgame should be the cup or conference title. IMO he has that type of value especially if he is dealt with one more year left on his contract. If dealt before the end of the season he that team has a chance to sign him for 8 years.

Quebec trade drafted Lindros for a huge haul and then Colorado became a beast for 13 years from the proceeds. Hughes could be bigger as an established super star.

Speaking of conference titles, how many defenseman of Hughes' calibre don't end up making it to the Cup finals in their careers? Even if you look at Norris Trophy winners, the only ones are Giordano (who really just had a career season), Karlsson, Fox, and Hughes (currently) since Rod Langway (and he technically won a Cup before he was in his prime Norris-winning years). Even PK Subban technically made it. Karlsson is a good comparable. He almost willed the Senators to the Cup Finals and wasn't fully healthy when he was with the Sharks. I made the same argument about Matthews where the odds are he makes it to the Cup Finals before his career is done. Ya hockey is a team game, but statistically, the recognized top 3 type forward or defensemen tend to make it to the Cup Finals once in their careers.

And let's not compare the Quebec Lindros trade here. It will never happen again. What you can hope for is that you get a top 2 pick and you draft a star/superstar.

Supporting players are important but let's not understimate the impact a prime Hughes has on the game.

 

[PuckMunchkin]

Long term view meaning what though? You lose Hughes if you rebuild.

The kind you need to take to actually build a cup contender. NHL is a efficiency contest and we are very inefficient.

I’ve been on team tank plenty of times before, it doesn’t make sense to do it when Hughes has pretty much publicly stated he’s done with rebuilds.

I agree.

But no player will ever say he is looking forward to being part of a rebuild.

 

[theguardianII]

Why do some fans/posters think this TEAM can't play for a cup without Hughes?

He is a great player but he is ONE player on a TEAM that uses 18 players per game.

 

[rypper]

Bears repeating:

 

[Bleach Clean]

Bears repeating:

Question is: Is that a true talent representation of the players outside of Hughes? We would have to see the rosters.

Could be that middling talent (not terrible) is underperforming as a team until Hughes hits the ice.

 

[SillyRabbit]

i think getting pennies for the dollar on both horvat and miller and going into their "window" with teddy blueger as their second best center signed beyond this season is a bigger indictment but you've definitely identified the second biggest indictment

This.

You simply cannot lose a player like Miller for the return the Canucks received.

The fact that management basically came out and said "we are going to get fleeced on this deal but we're going to do it anyway" speaks volumes about the competency of this group.

The Miller trade officially finalized the closing of the Canucks window.

 

[rypper]

This.

You simply cannot lose a player like Miller for the return the Canucks received.

The fact that management basically came out and said "we are going to get fleeced on this deal but we're going to do it anyway" speaks volumes about the competency of this group.

The Miller trade officially finalized the closing of the Canucks window.

The return for Miller was essentially the same return as rumored from the first time he was supposed to be shopped. I'm not sure what people expected the return to be.

 

[andora]

The return for Miller was essentially the same return as rumored from the first time he was supposed to be shopped. I'm not sure what people expected the return to be.

A lot of people's expectations versus the plausible reality that goes on behind the scenes is a vast chasm

 

[credulous]

The return for Miller was essentially the same return as rumored from the first time he was supposed to be shopped. I'm not sure what people expected the return to be.

i have less issue with what they got from the rangers (although targetting chytil was stupid. they should have moved earlier and targetted kaapo or held out for othmann or schneider instead of mancini) and more with them moving the rangers pick for marcus pettersson and drew o'connor. those are guys you sign in free agency not guys you trade a potential lottery pick for

 

[Intangibos]

Bears repeating:

I love Hughes and I don't question his value to this team or that he is a strong candidate for the Hart, but I would like to see how other elite players around the league measure up with this type of comparison. I'm not convinced it's fair to determine the value of a star player by how good the team is with him on the ice versus how bad they are without him on the ice because every single star player in the league is going to tilt the ice in his team's favour when he's playing while the team under performs without him.
I would assume that the Oilers with McDavid on the ice is a very different team than without, or the Avs with MacKinnon, or the Capitals without Ovechkin

 

[PuckMunchkin]

This.

You simply cannot lose a player like Miller for the return the Canucks received.

The fact that management basically came out and said "we are going to get fleeced on this deal but we're going to do it anyway" speaks volumes about the competency of this group.

The Miller trade officially finalized the closing of the Canucks window.

You have to just wonder what the hell he did for them to find this trade acceptable.

The trade was surely okayed by Hughes too.

Miller is one weird dood...

 

[centipede2233]

You have to just wonder what the hell he did for them to find this trade acceptable.

The trade was surely okayed by Hughes too.

Miller is one weird dood...

I’ve come across some here say and I have a solid idea, let’s say miller staying with the Canucks got to the point of it being untenable.

 

[DFAC]

Management sure didn't do a whole lot of "managing" this year. Seems like there was always one fire after another that was being put out. Just a dysfunctional organization from top to bottom. Have not been impressed this year.

How the whole Pettersson/Miller fiasco was handled was nothing short of a PR disaster. We could feature the 2024-25 Canucks in a "What NOT to do when managing a professional hockey team"

 

[Diablo2020]

The value on the Miller deal was fine. At the end of the day we can point to a top4 defenseman and change as the return.

The value on the Horvat deal was fine. At the end of the day we can point to a top4 defenseman and change as the return.

The problem is, and always has been, the damn timing.

The ORIGINAL Jt Miller trade was the right player, the wrong time. We were not ready to take that next step, even with JT dragging us to great heights.

Then we doubled down, traded Horvat over what is actually a standard deal nowadays, and further robbed peter to pay paul while still being nowhere close to a championship.

Now we finally fixed the defense, and we have no assets to fix the fowards so again, Marcus Pettersson is the right player, at the wrong bloody time.

Season one of his new 5 year contract and we're likely going to fall arse backwards into a rebuild by default.

And around we go.

The values have always been fine in fact we just trade tree'd the heck outta this one. Shakir Mukhamadullin and Hugo Afnelot for Pettersson, Oconnor, Chytil and Mancini is great.

 

[VanJack]

When it comes to the blueline, the front office was basically 'between a rock and hard place' at the start of the season.

They had some promising young d-men in the system, but none of them were deemed to be ready. Then Zadorov and Cole left, forcing them to dip in what was a pretty mediocre UFA pool for d-men.

Forbort has been OK. But Desharnais was a disaster; and Brannstrom wasn't far behind. Then Soucy did a full-on, face-plant. For awhile there, it was one of worst blueline in hockey. Then when first Hronek and then Hughes went down, it was basically 'lights-out'.

Then to compound things, the goalie who bailed out their blueline so many times last season, hardly has even played. Demko went from Vezina finalist, to being basically AWOL.

The blueline finally got fixed--but far too late for them to climb back into the playoff race.

 

[Diablo2020]

When it comes to the blueline, the front office was basically 'between a rock and hard place' at the start of the season.

They had some promising young d-men in the system, but none of them were deemed to be ready. Then Zadorov and Cole left, forcing them to dip in what was a pretty mediocre UFA pool for d-men.

Forbort has been OK. But Desharnais was a disaster; and Brannstrom wasn't far behind. Then Soucy did a full-on, face-plant. For awhile there, it was one of worst blueline in hockey. Then when first Hronek and then Hughes went down, it was basically 'lights-out'.

Then to compound things, the goalie who bailed out their blueline so many times last season, hardly has even played. Demko went from Vezina finalist, to being basically AWOL.

The blueline finally got fixed--but far too late for them to climb back into the playoff race.

I posted a spiel last year about this franchise and Ian Cole.

I listed about 50 Matt Bartowski's and Derek Pouliot's we have cycled through, yet Ian Freaking Cole was somehow a godsend stabalizing presence for us.

Ian Cole, he who was on his 5th team in 5 years.

Ian Cole who was available as a free agent EVERY SINGLE year.

Ian Cole who for the price of one third round pick at any given time, could have prevented every single scrub we cycled through.

Somehow Ian Cole managed to slip through our fingers for 6 years straight, and we couldnt even keep him when we finally got em.

Pure disaster class its been for a decade.

 

[PuckMunchkin]

I’ve come across some here say and I have a solid idea, let’s say miller staying with the Canucks got to the point of it being untenable.

I've heard the rumours.

I dont put much weight on the specifics because they cant be confirmed.

Hope we get to know one day.

 

[IComeInPeace]

I posted a spiel last year about this franchise and Ian Cole.

I listed about 50 Matt Bartowski's and Derek Pouliot's we have cycled through, yet Ian Freaking Cole was somehow a godsend stabalizing presence for us.

Ian Cole, he who was on his 5th team in 5 years.

Ian Cole who was available as a free agent EVERY SINGLE year.

Ian Cole who for the price of one third round pick at any given time, could have prevented every single scrub we cycled through.

Somehow Ian Cole managed to slip through our fingers for 6 years straight, and we couldnt even keep him when we finally got em.

Pure disaster class its been for a decade.

Our D is the least of our problems though, isn’t it?

Adding Ian Cole into the lineup (at 1.3 million more than Forbort against the salary cap): I’m not sure that would have solved any of the problems this team has faced this season:

Does EP40 not struggle with Ian Cole still around?

Do the JTM and EP40 issues not occur with Ian Cole around?

Does Demko not get hurt with Ian Cole around?

Does Quinn Hughes not get hurt with Ian Cole around?

Does Hronek not get hurt with Ian Cole around?

Sure, on the surface I agree that Ian Cole was a great guy to have around, but I don’t see how he solves any of the issues that have buried this team this season.

 

[andora]

Our D is the least of our problems though, isn’t it?

Adding Ian Cole into the lineup (at 1.3 million more than Forbort against the salary cap): I’m not sure that would have solved any of the problems this team has faced this season:

Does EP40 not struggle with Ian Cole still around?

Do the JTM and EP40 issues not occur with Ian Cole around?

Does Demko not get hurt with Ian Cole around?

Does Quinn Hughes not get hurt with Ian Cole around?

Does Hronek not get hurt with Ian Cole around?

Sure, on the surface I agree that Ian Cole was a great guy to have around, but I don’t see how he solves any of the issues that have buried this team this season.

1. Cole inspires
2. Cole mediates
3. Cole adapts
4. Cole protects
5. Cole heals

So yes

 

[Jack Burton]

 

[Grumbler]

I’ll post my thoughts at the end of the season but for now it should be FULL REBUILD MODE.