Management Thread | Blurst of Times

[SillyRabbit]

People aren't going to like this, but the smartest thing for this franchise right now is to trade Hughes in the offseason.

Yes, he's arguably the most talented player in franchise history.

Yes, he's arguably the best defenceman in the NHL.

Yes, we are unlikely to find a player like him for a long time.

But there's no way to build a contender around him in the next two seasons. We lost way too much value in trading Miller, Pettersson falling off a cliff and Demko's career being derailed by injuries. We no longer have a core that can contend.

And if we aren't a contending team in two seasons, Hughes is gone.

If we wait another year to trade him, the return will be much smaller than what we can get now because rumors will start to fly that he's going to sign with the Devils, and teams will be wary of the risk that he might walk in the offseason for nothing.

Right now there are two full seasons of Norris caliber hockey you can get from Hughes, and if you are a contender, you have a decent chance to convince him to re-sign. His value could not be any higher than it is right now.

If we trade Hughes, we can embrace a rebuild (the team will never rebuild while he is here) and the pieces you will get from trading him will actually help kickstart that rebuild significantly.

Hughes is my favorite Canuck, I don't want to see him go. But he's going to walk in two years anyway. So might as well use him to help secure a brighter tomorrow.

Pettersson of course needs to be traded in the offseason as well. The return will be poor, but as long as you don't have to retain or attach any picks/prospects, just make the trade, and ideally get some picks/prospects back.

That being said, there's no chance that management actually makes the right move here and trades Hughes. So we should expect to lose him for a much lesser return in a year, or possibly nothing in two years, and delay the inevitable rebuild for at least two more years as well.

 

[kanucks25]

People aren't going to like this, but the smartest thing for this franchise right now is to trade Hughes in the offseason.

Yes, he's arguably the most talented player in franchise history.

Yes, he's arguably the best defenceman in the NHL.

Yes, we are unlikely to find a player like him for a long time.

But there's no way to build a contender around him in the next two seasons. We lost way too much value in trading Miller, Pettersson falling off a cliff and Demko's career being derailed by injuries. We no longer have a core that can contend.

And if we aren't a contending team in two seasons, Hughes is gone.

If we wait another year to trade him, the return will be much smaller than what we can get now because rumors will start to fly that he's going to sign with the Devils, and teams will be wary of the risk that he might walk in the offseason for nothing.

Right now there are two full seasons of Norris caliber hockey you can get from Hughes, and if you are a contender, you have a decent chance to convince him to re-sign. His value could not be any higher than it is right now.

If we trade Hughes, we can embrace a rebuild (the team will never rebuild while he is here) and the pieces you will get from trading him will actually help kickstart that rebuild significantly.

Hughes is my favorite Canuck, I don't want to see him go. But he's going to walk in two years anyway. So might as well use him to help secure a brighter tomorrow.

Pettersson of course needs to be traded in the offseason as well. The return will be poor, but as long as you don't have to retain or attach any picks/prospects, just make the trade, and ideally get some picks/prospects back.

That being said, there's no chance that management actually makes the right move here and trades Hughes. So we should expect to lose him for a much lesser return in a year, or possibly nothing in two years, and delay the inevitable rebuild for at least two more years as well.

I think the play is to see what happens with Pettersson next year. Hope that with an off-season of recovery and training he can regain his form, because that's the only real path towards winning with this group. Trading Pettersson now accomplishes little as his value is likely in the tank.

And then you communicate that to Hughes:

"We're going to try to run it back with Pettersson next season. If that fails, will you accept a sign & trade to a team with 1 year left on your current deal? We will work with you to find a destination that you desire. If not, we have to consider trading you right now."

To me that covers all bases: you don't punt on this core without seeing if Petey can rebound, and if he doesn't rebound you still make sure you get a good haul for Hughes.

 

[mriswith]

but then you have elias turn into an AHL level player and Miller wants out. and demko's body breaks down to an insane level. all within a year. Soucy falls off a cliff, which isn't insignificant for this team given he was the clear cut #3 last year. i just don't know how anyone can blame all the garbage of that on management.

The caveat to what I'm about to post is that the criticism is mostly the initial path they took. They sat on their hands for a year (with regards to the on ice roster) and eventually tried to make the right moves but too little, too late, and just like Benning they have to act like they're allergic to futures. This is the #1 major mistake and it's all an Aqua problem but they have to wear it because they agreed to it.

However, EP and Demko got cratered from overuse injuries.

Demko
Mgmt let Boudreau ride Demko into the ground in a completely meaningless season that had ended almost before it began and straight into the surgery from which this all cascaded. And then Demko clearly shouldn't have played the games he did at the end of last season, nor should there have been any nonsense about him trying to come back in later rounds, nor should he have been doing any training related to those games or that attempted comeback. Now his career looks toast.

Pettersson
Mgmt let EP play through his injury last season and as a result he got less and less effective as time went on, and playing through it meant his offseason was ruined. No matter where you stand on the "why does EP suck now" question, even if you're in the group that minimzes the injury to the maximum extent and thinks he is not injured at all right now, it's just a fact that the skid started because of his injury last year and ruined his offseason this year.

Miller
The initial fight with Miller that escalated to the point where Hughes et al were done with JT was about EP's conditioning... from the ruined offseason... from his overuse injury last year. And in all likelihood bleeding over frustration from EP's injury ruined second half of the season last year.

It would be tempting to call all of the above bad luck and not mgmt's fault, except that the backdrop to all of this is a proven track record of major mismanagement on other players injuries. It's clear that while this management group is generally competent, they have two major Achille's heels in their PR and their handling of injured players.

Soucy was also what I call a 4.5 last year, a bottom pairing guy who was sporadically able to handle a top 4 role. Cole, Zad, Myers and Soucy all took turns looking capable on the second pairing and none of them were able to sustain it for very long other than maybe Cole.

I agree with you on everything else. The Lindholm and Zad contracts would have been major mistakes. The problem all year was the gaping hole in the 2LD slot and so many issues were symptomatic of that major flaw. We should have traded our first for MP3 the minute Pitt capitulated on the season which I think was in November.

 

[SillyRabbit]

I think the play is to see what happens with Pettersson next year. Hope that with an off-season of recovery and training he can regain his form, because that's the only real path towards winning with this group. Trading Pettersson now accomplishes little as his value is likely in the tank.

When Pettersson fails to return to his previous form, you are now stuck with him on a NMC. And now nobody wants him, because the fantasy of him returning to form has proven to be just that... a fantasy.

Now the franchise is forced to attach picks and prospects to him to unload him, while also retaining cap for the next 7 years. That's absolutely crippling for the next decade of this franchise.

And then you communicate that to Hughes:

"We're going to try to run it back with Pettersson next season. If that fails, will you accept a sign & trade to a team with 1 year left on your current deal? We will work with you to find a destination that you desire. If not, we have to consider trading you right now."

To which he will laugh in their faces.

Hughes is going to free agency, and he's going to have the pick of any team he wants, and any dollar amount he wants.

 

[IComeInPeace]

Some much needed good news:

Our scouting staff inspires confidence with the Fernstrom pick (9 points in his last 10 games)

The bad news:

Well, you already know the bad news…

 

[ManVanFan]

Some much needed good news:

Our scouting staff inspires confidence with the Fernstrom pick (9 points in his last 10 games)

The bad news:

Well, you already know the bad news…

Management has a mandate for playoffs and will take short cuts whenever possible.

 

[Oliewud]

 

[Bubbles]

People aren't going to like this, but the smartest thing for this franchise right now is to trade Hughes in the offseason.

Yes, he's arguably the most talented player in franchise history.

Yes, he's arguably the best defenceman in the NHL.

Yes, we are unlikely to find a player like him for a long time.

But there's no way to build a contender around him in the next two seasons. We lost way too much value in trading Miller, Pettersson falling off a cliff and Demko's career being derailed by injuries. We no longer have a core that can contend.

And if we aren't a contending team in two seasons, Hughes is gone.

If we wait another year to trade him, the return will be much smaller than what we can get now because rumors will start to fly that he's going to sign with the Devils, and teams will be wary of the risk that he might walk in the offseason for nothing.

Right now there are two full seasons of Norris caliber hockey you can get from Hughes, and if you are a contender, you have a decent chance to convince him to re-sign. His value could not be any higher than it is right now.

If we trade Hughes, we can embrace a rebuild (the team will never rebuild while he is here) and the pieces you will get from trading him will actually help kickstart that rebuild significantly.

Hughes is my favorite Canuck, I don't want to see him go. But he's going to walk in two years anyway. So might as well use him to help secure a brighter tomorrow.

Pettersson of course needs to be traded in the offseason as well. The return will be poor, but as long as you don't have to retain or attach any picks/prospects, just make the trade, and ideally get some picks/prospects back.

That being said, there's no chance that management actually makes the right move here and trades Hughes. So we should expect to lose him for a much lesser return in a year, or possibly nothing in two years, and delay the inevitable rebuild for at least two more years as well.

I always had the suspicion that he would leave anyways, since the weird 6 year "semi-bridge" deal. And when Luke Hughes was drafted by the Devils, the places started to fall into place. The chance to play with your two bros is too great to ignore.

Just trade him to New Jersey and be done with. He'll be a UFA at 27 years old, and it's unlikely he would sign a long term contract here with the construction.

Maybe the new management by then (post Allvin), the Canucks will actually rebuild fully instead of this "rebuild on the fly" that this organization has done since the Sedins retired.

 

[racerjoe]

I always had the suspicion that he would leave anyways, since the weird 6 year "semi-bridge" deal. And when Luke Hughes was drafted by the Devils, the places started to fall into place. The chance to play with your two bros is too great to ignore.

Just trade him to New Jersey and be done with. He'll be a UFA at 27 years old, and it's unlikely he would sign a long term contract here with the construction.

Maybe the new management by then (post Allvin), the Canucks will actually rebuild fully instead of this "rebuild on the fly" that this organization has done since the Sedins retired.

If/when we lose Hughes that’s when you have to rebuild. Until then you have to still try and win. Hughes should be the chip to fall to signal change.

 

[beachcomber]

The Nucks contending every year maybe would have kept him here but that’ll never happen so he’ll be joining his brothers. Who wouldn’t pass up that opportunity?

 

[kanucks25]

When Pettersson fails to return to his previous form, you are now stuck with him on a NMC. And now nobody wants him, because the fantasy of him returning to form has proven to be just that... a fantasy.

Now the franchise is forced to attach picks and prospects to him to unload him, while also retaining cap for the next 7 years. That's absolutely crippling for the next decade of this franchise.

If Pettersson fails to regain his form you don't trade him with sweeteners, you just rebuild with him and eat the contract.

To which he will laugh in their faces.

Hughes is going to free agency, and he's going to have the pick of any team he wants, and any dollar amount he wants.

I don't know about that. I think he takes his responsibility to lead this team very seriously and his first priority is to make it work here.

If he says he won't accept a sign a trade anywhere and will test free agency no matter what then yes we need to strongly consider trading him this off-season.

The ball will be in his court in terms of does he want to wait and see if Petey can rebound or not. We know they're good friends (used to room together, sit together on the plane, Hughes likely had a hand in keeping Petey over Miller) so perhaps Hughes believes in him.

 

[iFan]

When Pettersson fails to return to his previous form, you are now stuck with him on a NMC. And now nobody wants him, because the fantasy of him returning to form has proven to be just that... a fantasy.

Now the franchise is forced to attach picks and prospects to him to unload him, while also retaining cap for the next 7 years. That's absolutely crippling for the next decade of this franchise.


To which he will laugh in their faces.

Hughes is going to free agency, and he's going to have the pick of any team he wants, and any dollar amount he wants.

I agree that we should really look at moving Pettersson before his NMC kicks in. I don’t want to move Hughes but I don’t disagree with you. Between Pettersson and this management group both shitting the bed this year, we’re in a really tough spot to convince Hughes to stay here. We have to completely rebuild the top 6 and we don’t have the assets to do that without depleting other areas. Personally, I think this management group made some bad decisions which were now paying for. This is what happens when you try and rush things.

If Pettersson fails to regain his form you don't trade him with sweeteners, you just rebuild with him and eat the contract.



I don't know about that. I think he takes his responsibility to lead this team very seriously and his first priority is to make it work here.

If he says he won't accept a sign a trade anywhere and will test free agency no matter what then yes we need to strongly consider trading him this off-season.

The ball will be in his court in terms of does he want to wait and see if Petey can rebound or not. We know they're good friends (used to room together, sit together on the plane, Hughes likely had a hand in keeping Petey over Miller) so perhaps Hughes believes in him.

You’re not building a cup contender with Pettersson being useless and eating up 11.6 million in cap hit. You lose a trade asset that could be moved for something and a ton of cap space.

 

[kanucks25]

You’re not building a cup contender with Pettersson being useless and eating up 11.6 million in cap hit. You lose a trade asset that could be moved for something and a ton of cap space.

I guess it depends on how much of a trade asset Petey really is right now. Is any team willing to actually give us something good and take on the entire contract?

If not, you rebuild with him and when you need his cap space you buy him out or trade him away with sweeteners towards the end when it won't cost as much because let's face it: it's going to take a long, long time to get back into contender status if we trade Hughes and Petey is permanently broken. By the time we're there, his contract will be close to over.

 

[iFan]

I guess it depends on how much of a trade asset Petey really is right now. Is any team willing to actually give us something good and take on the entire contract?

If not, you rebuild with him and when you need his cap space you buy him out or trade him away with sweeteners towards the end when it won't cost as much because let's face it: it's going to take a long, long time to get back into contender status if we trade Hughes and Petey is permanently broken. By the time we're there, his contract will be close to over.

Buying him out isn’t going to save us, OEL buyout hurt us, Pettersson would hurt a lot more. You do realize this is year one of his 8 year deal… if he sucks again next year with his NMC he will be impossible to trade, the sweeteners we’d have to toss in is another cost to this we can’t afford, we don’t have them. It’s way too risky to keep him at this point. At least now a GM will think if they get him into a new environment he’ll turn it around, and we don’t have to work around his NMC.

 

[kanucks25]

Buying him out isn’t going to save us, OEL buyout hurt us, Pettersson would hurt a lot more. You do realize this is year one of his 8 year deal… if he sucks again next year with his NMC he will be impossible to trade, the sweeteners we’d have to toss in is another cost to this we can’t afford, we don’t have them. It’s way too risky to keep him at this point. At least now a GM will think if they get him into a new environment he’ll turn it around, and we don’t have to work around his NMC.

I'm not saying buy him out next year or the year after.

This would be in year 7 or 8 or of his deal.

Again - if we trade Hughes and Petey continues to suck we are so far away. We don't have to worry about his cap being on the books.

 

[iFan]

I'm not saying buy him out next year or the year after.

This would be in year 7 or 8 or of his deal.

Again - if we trade Hughes and Petey continues to suck we are so far away. We don't have to worry about his cap being on the books.

Sucks being a Canuck fan

 

[racerjoe]

You keep Petey primarily because if he bounces back it’s easily your best bet to competing and being a contender. If he fails, then you are probably losing Hughes. If you trade Petey, you are getting nothing back with either his cap space or trade that would help you compete and you lose Hughes. It’s that simple.

 

[Nucker101]

Outside of the playoffs last year, this might’ve been the peak “there’s hope” moment of this era.

 

[PuckMunchkin]

the management criticism stuff is interesting to me because i'm not sure which angle the criticism is coming from. if the gripe is the initial path they took when they could have pivoted.. that's fair. they picked the near impossible path, but then somehow made that work last year and were a top four D + top six forward away (coming into this season) away from them making that work.

I give them their due.

I did not see them doing as well as they did with last years roster. But that year everything went their way except EP40 production to end the year.

Every player except him improved.

but then you have elias turn into an AHL level player and Miller wants out. and demko's body breaks down to an insane level. all within a year. Soucy falls off a cliff, which isn't insignificant for this team given he was the clear cut #3 last year. i just don't know how anyone can blame all the garbage of that on management.

Blame the fact that it blew up in their face like it was likely to do, like you said in the earlier part?

Do they get a pass just because it blew up to a unforseeble degree?

and yeah, they should have had a better summer. but then i feel like so many of the people who complained about that thought giving lindholm and zadorov awful contracts was the solution, so then i don't really get that lens either. and we're lucky they turned down those contracts from us.

The summer is just a result of the path chosen. They had to go for another set of risky signings for cheaper.

now we're sitting here two top six forwards away + needing ep to turn into a superstar. it's just so weird.

my big picture gripe is that they didn't pivot when they could have two years ago. my recent gripe is that they went into this season a D too light.

This is my gripe too.

Theyve executed well considering the difficulty of the task. And I suppose they were signed by Aqua with this specific task in mind.

obviously it's a results business. and you have to give them the remainder of 2025 to see where things are heading, what they do with pettersson, more clarity on hughes, how they weaponize demko's cap space (if they go that route) and what happens with boeser... just very curious. and very apathetic.

I hope they get to stick around.

They are competent talent evaluators.

 

[PuckMunchkin]

I think the play is to see what happens with Pettersson next year. Hope that with an off-season of recovery and training he can regain his form, because that's the only real path towards winning with this group. Trading Pettersson now accomplishes little as his value is likely in the tank.

And then you communicate that to Hughes:

"We're going to try to run it back with Pettersson next season. If that fails, will you accept a sign & trade to a team with 1 year left on your current deal? We will work with you to find a destination that you desire. If not, we have to consider trading you right now."

To me that covers all bases: you don't punt on this core without seeing if Petey can rebound, and if he doesn't rebound you still make sure you get a good haul for Hughes.

Now Hughes can just walk as UFA.

Unlike 3 years ago.

 

[kanucks25]

Now Hughes can just walk as UFA.

Unlike 3 years ago.

Players can always find their way out if they want to, regardless of contract situation.

 

[PuckMunchkin]

Players can always find their way out if they want to, regardless of contract situation.

Hehe..

 

[theguardianII]

All the Hughes panic talk to keep him here is a distraction and frankly meaningless.

We all saw the results of putting players ahead of the team, the Sedins.
Management drove this team into the grave for a decade by putting them ahead of the team and to please them.
What did the team end up with besides two players that played an extra 18 games here?

The impact is still being felt 7 years later.

Hughes is different, he has all the power where he plays in 2 1/3 years.
But the team does have the hammer until that last day and if there is any question at all and maybe even if there isn't he should be dealt for the overall good of the team's future.

Pettersson like Miller will play much better in a new market.
An issue is the "instant gratification" crowd and the doom and gloom media that ignore any long term benefits. If they don't see immediate results they claim doom and gloom and the owned media loves to feed that fire and encourage even more discourse and scare mongering.

Management, Allvin, loves long term contracts because he gets a few done and then any fault is placed on the player for not improving every year, it is the player's fault.
A large contract does not bestow longevity, added skill every year or chemistry with players of coach systems.

 

[rypper]

We all saw the results of putting players ahead of the team, the Sedins.
Management drove this team into the grave for a decade by putting them ahead of the team and to please them.
What did the team end up with besides two players that played an extra 18 games here?

You're completely ignoring the Jim Benning factor.

If you have special players you keep them and build around them. It's not the Sedins fault they had to finish their careers with arguably the worst general manager of the salary cap era.

 

[theguardianII]

You're completely ignoring the Jim Benning factor.

If you have special players you keep them and build around them. It's not the Sedins fault they had to finish their careers with arguably the worst general manager of the salary cap era.

Yes, Benning was THE worst.

But Allvin is quickly catching up. Pretty sure the OEL buyout trumps anything Elmer did except trading for OEL and that EP contract might yet eclipse Eriksson's