Malkin in '06 WJC = Gretzky in '81 Canada Cup

[Zine]

No, but I expected him to score or assist on at least one shift in one of the bigger games in his career.

Because Malkin didn't get a point he shouldn't be considered alongside Crosby or Ovechkin....particularly in light of those 2 guys being shut down in big games also?

 

[VanIslander]

Because Malkin didn't get a point he shouldn't be considered alongside Crosby or Ovechkin....particularly in light of those 2 guys being shut down in big games also?

exactly.

the great (young) one(s) haven't scored anything in HUGE international tourney finals...

the analogies multiply....

the point: the final in this one international tourney is NO indication of Malkin's ability/talent/potential

none thomasincanada, none

 

[thomasincanada]

Because Malkin didn't get a point he shouldn't be considered alongside Crosby or Ovechkin....particularly in light of those 2 guys being shut down in big games also?

Ovechkin was unable to deliver against the best Canadian World Junior Team ever, full of players his own age and some older. I can hardly hold that against him.

Crosby was unable to deliver against possibly the best CHL team ever, full of players older than him, 4 of whom have seen some NHL ice time this year with probably 2 or 3 more to join next year. I don't believe *any* of Crosby's Rimouski teammates have seen NHL ice time this year.

Malkin was unable to deliver against a blue collar Canadian team full of players younger and less talented than him.

It would be lame to judge a guy based on one game, but at some point he's going to have to step up and be the best player in a game he is supposed to.

 

[Jacob]

Still the best prospect in the world.

 

[Nihilism]

Wow, if this isn't overrating Malkin then I don't know what is.

 

[Jacob]

My comment? If not Malkin, than who?

 

[Zine]

Not to push the issue, but I just can't seem to understand why you're judging a 19 year old based on 1 or 2 big games.

Ovechkin was unable to deliver against the best Canadian World Junior Team ever, full of players his own age and some older. I can hardly hold that against him.

Who was older than Ovechkin? He was an '85 and in his last WJC. And who cares if they're the best team Canada had ever -- they were still a junior team. You'd think, considering what he's doing against the best players in the world, he would have ripped apart any junior team, no matter how good they were.
But no, things like this happen to the best of them.

Crosby was unable to deliver against possibly the best CHL team ever, full of players older than him, 4 of whom have seen some NHL ice time this year with probably 2 or 3 more to join next year. I don't believe *any* of Crosby's Rimouski teammates have seen NHL ice time this year.

Who cares. It's still not even close to WJC level. That London team only had 5 players that were good enough to ever play in a WJC. Don't make excuses, Crosby was certainly NHL level last year but was still blanked by a sub-WJC, CHL junior level team in one of the biggest games of his career up to that point.

It would be lame to judge a guy based on one game, but at some point he's going to have to step up and be the best player in a game he is supposed to.

You sound like you think Malkin is 28 or something. Learning what it takes to win is part of the development process as much as anything. It comes from experience and being on both the winning & losing sides. That's what Crosby and Ovechkin are still learning right now too.

 

[thomasincanada]

exactly.

the point: the final in this one international tourney is NO indication of Malkin's ability/talent/potential

none thomasincanada, none

Think what you want, that doesn't make it so. It means little, for sure, but it *does* mean something. His career will be judged in the end not on how he does in meaningless regular season NHL/RSL games, but what he does in the NHL playoffs/Olympics and the other big games such as this one. This one game will likely mean very little at the end of his career, but it does not mean nothing.

What does mean nothing are the stats he put up against the very weak WJC competition this year apart from Canada.

 

[Digger12]

Gretzky was a 20 year old, playing against men.

Malkin was a 19 year old, playing against opposition between the ages of 17-19. Bit of a difference.

There's an obvious parallel, but I have to ask...if Malkin had scored 5 goals yesterday, would your thread topic today have been about how his WJHC success was a harbinger for future superstardom?

 

[thomasincanada]

Not to push the issue, but I just can't seem to understand why you're judging a 19 year old based on 1 or 2 big games.

I'm challenging the assertion that this game means absolutely nothing. I truly don't believe that. We're dealing with a player who has plenty of RSL experience, and is apparently kicking butt in it. Is it not fair for me to expect him to step it up in a game like this, regardless of the fact that he is still quite young? You can't cherry pick games to judge this guy on. All games count and the big ones more than the little ones IMO.

Who was older than Ovechkin? He was an '85 and in his last WJC. And who cares if they're the best team Canada had ever -- they were still a junior team.

Most of Team Canada was older than him - as they were 2003 draft picks. The age difference wasn't huge, but it was there.

Who cares. It's still not even close to WJC level. That London team only had 5 players that were good enough to ever play in a WJC. Don't make excuses, Crosby was certainly NHL level last year but was still blanked by a sub-WJC, CHL junior level team in one of the biggest games of his career up to that point.

Crosby was all of 17, but you'll never hear me say that game was meaningless.

 

[Metallian*]

If you put an 18 year old Gretzky in the same Delorean and brought him into today's hockey, you'd never hear a word about Malkin or Ovechkin again.

Gretzky didn't have to skills to compete in todays NHL when the goalies didn't just fall over when a snap shot was taking from the hash marks.

 

[thomasincanada]

Gretzky didn't have to skills to compete in todays NHL when the goalies didn't just fall over when a snap shot was taking from the hash marks.

That's the funniest thing I've heard all day.

Thanks for the laugh

 

[ryz]

Gretzky didn't have to skills to compete in todays NHL when the goalies didn't just fall over when a snap shot was taking from the hash marks.

Lots of comedy from the bitter Russian supporters today. That's bud!

 

[Zine]

I'm challenging the assertion that this game means absolutely nothing. I truly don't believe that. We're dealing with a player who has plenty of RSL experience, and is apparently kicking butt in it. Is it not fair for me to expect him to step it up in a game like this, regardless of the fact that he is still quite young? You can't cherry pick games to judge this guy on. All games count and the big ones more than the little ones IMO.

I'm not saying it's a meaningless game, not by any stretch of the imagination. But it shouldn't define Malkin as a player, how good he'll be, or how he compares to others. You obviously have doubts based on his play in 1 'big' game, but at this stage, you look at what the player does over the big picture. I gave examples of Crosby and Ovechkin coming up empty in big games but you tried to make excuses for them. Those games had no bearing on how good those guys really are/were. You can't have it both ways.

 

[thomasincanada]

I'm not saying it's a meaningless game, not by any stretch of the imagination. But it shouldn't define Malkin as a player, how good he'll be, or how he compares to others. You obviously have doubts based on his play in 1 'big' game, but at this stage, you look at what the player does over the big picture. I gave examples of Crosby and Ovechkin coming up empty in big games but you tried to make excuses for them. Those games had no bearing on how good those guys really are/were. You can't have it both ways.

I don't really have many doubts on his potential & skillset, and one game certainly means little. I thought it meant a little more than Crosby & Ovechkin's games that they didn't show up in just based on the relative level of competition, which is why I defended them earlier, but their games were also statements that they weren't quite superstars yet, either.

I was quite vocal in this thread because I didn't like the assertion that this game was meaningless and the making of excuses, but that doesn't mean I have major doubts about his game, that is far from the case.

 

[Metallian*]

That's the funniest thing I've heard all day.

Thanks for the laugh

stats dont tell the whole story

 

[ZombieMatt]

Gretzky didn't have to skills to compete in todays NHL when the goalies didn't just fall over when a snap shot was taking from the hash marks.

.....

Wow.

I don't even know what to say to this.

 

[oil slick]

.....

Wow.

I don't even know what to say to this.

Just smile and nod...

 

[David]

Gretzky didn't have to skills to compete in todays NHL when the goalies didn't just fall over when a snap shot was taking from the hash marks.

How old are you? 12?

Obviously, you haven't been around too long...

 

[David]

Gretzky was a 20 year old, playing against men.

Malkin was a 19 year old, playing against opposition between the ages of 17-19. Bit of a difference.

GIMME A BREAK!!!!

Clearly, there is a difference.

Gretzky was 16, YES 16 YEARS old when he scored 17 points in 6 games in against 18 and 19 year olds at his WJC.

Malkin is 19, playing against 17-19 year olds at this WJC.

Even as a grown men, Gretzky had games where he didn't register a point...just ask Stephan the Shadow Lebeau. So what? Gretzky still scored over 200 points a season in the best league in the world.

Malkin is not worthy enough to even hold on to Wayne's jockstraps!!!

This thread is completely out to lunch...trying to compare apples to oranges using some crazy logic... Eeesheesh!!!

 

[Winston Wolf]

Malkin was great and all, likely the best forward of the tournament, but I still think he was far from dominating like I'm guessing Gretzky was in 1981. I'm 19 and I've seen better performances from a handful of forwards at other WJCs. (not saying that has anything to do with overall pro potential)

 

[Digger12]

GIMME A BREAK!!!!

Clearly, there is a difference.

Gretzky was 16, YES 16 YEARS old when he scored 17 points in 6 games in against 18 and 19 year olds at his WJC.

Malkin is 19, playing against 17-19 year olds at this WJC.

Even as a grown men, Gretzky had games where he didn't register a point...just ask Stephan the Shadow Lebeau. So what? Gretzky still scored over 200 points a season in the best league in the world.

Malkin is not worthy enough to even hold on to Wayne's jockstraps!!!

This thread is completely out to lunch...trying to compare apples to oranges using some crazy logic... Eeesheesh!!!

I didn't realize I was talking about Gretzky at the WJHC, I could've sworn I was referring to Gretzky at the '81 Canada cup (where he was 20, YES 20 years old), which the thread starter was talking about.

Whatever, carry on.

 

[Zine]

I didn't realize I was talking about Gretzky at the WJHC, I could've sworn I was referring to Gretzky at the '81 Canada cup (where he was 20, YES 20 years old), which the thread starter was talking about.

Whatever, carry on.

If there's one way to get a Canadian to wig out, it's to mention someone's as good as Gretzky.

It's sacrilege I tell ya!!!! Sacrilege!!!

 

[David]

I didn't realize I was talking about Gretzky at the WJHC, I could've sworn I was referring to Gretzky at the '81 Canada cup (where he was 20, YES 20 years old), which the thread starter was talking about.

Whatever, carry on.

That CAPITALIZED gimme a break was not intended for you. It was to the original poster and his title...as well as some of the others who are out to lunch with him.

Carry on.

 

[Le Golie]

Gretzky didn't have to skills to compete in todays NHL when the goalies didn't just fall over when a snap shot was taking from the hash marks.

Hall of Fame material right here ladies and gentlemen. Pathetic.