Malkin as a prospect

[MadLuke]

Yes Esposito is a good example of one of the most overhyped number 20, Tavares was one of the most hyped draft -2, draft -1, but like Esposito it calmed down (which boosted Radulov profile in a way, putting his big season due to him more than anything) a bit going into the draft, enough to even be the number 1 was a debate.

 

[Michael Farkas]

Tbh Hedman over Tavares played out, although it took a long time to get there.

Yeah, it's fair to say that it did work out. But I'd still say that I was guilty of over-scouting to get there...the process wasn't good, so therefore the result is more luck than anything...

 

[JackSlater]

The only two I'm not so sure he would have gone ahead of based on pre-draft hype, are Kovalchuk and Lecavalier.

I wrote a lengthy post on Kovalchuk in another thread awhile back, but the short form of it was that scouts called him by far the best prospect since Lindros, and he was essentially Ovechkin before Ovechkin. Malkin may have been the more complete prospect, but in comparing their pre-draft hype which I remember quite well..I have Kovy ahead, at least by a bit.

Lecavlier had way unreasonable expectations, but that "big skilled Canadian boy" had fans and scouts drooling.

Edit: And I suppose Bedard. The hype was ridiculous. Unfair to the kid.

I definitely recall way more hype for Kovalchuk than for Malkin. Malkin was more of a mystery, but Kovalchuk surpassed Spezza, who himself was very highly hyped.

Tavares was really highly hyped for a while, but by the months before his draft he was down from memory, enough that a lot of people talked about a 2 way race, with Hedman maybe going number 1:

The Battle for Number One - Victor Hedman - The Hockey Writers Latest News, Analysis & More

At the 2009 NHL Entry Draft held on June 26th you will, without some unforeseen surprise, hear one of two names called first. One of those, John Tavares, has been…

thehockeywriters.com

Hedman is so highly thought of that a senior NHL scout who had a lot of success in drafting the past 20 years told a representative at Hockey’s Future during a WJC game this week that he would not hesitate to recommend to his organization to take Hedman instead of Canadian John Tavares as the first overall pick.

Suspense builds over No. 1 NHL draft pick

John Tavares or Victor Hedman?

www.reddeeradvocate.com

Some even tried to act as if Duchene had a shot but that could have been made up

Tavares' hype slipped a lot going into his draft season, to the point where McKenzie's poll before the 2008 draft had most scouts picking Stamkos over Tavares. It went up a lot again after the WJC.

I don't recall Malkin being as highly hyped as some of the posts here indicate. There was barely any video of him, in my memory, but I do recall there was talk of scouts being way higher on him than the media was.

 

[JianYang]

I rember the world jrs with ovechkin and Malkin on the same team.

Certainly ovechkin was covered as the marquee showcase but malkin also got coverage too. It was sort of like the mcdrai of the world juniors that year where Malkin was getting alot of respect but he was clearly the "draisaitl" in the relationship.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

Malkin's hype justifiably grew leaps and bounds in the 2 years post-draft when he was tearing the RSL a new one.

As a Pens fan, the prospect of this guy joining Crosby back in the summer of '06 was unreal. To this day, still my favourite prospect video:



What 6'3" center prospect has a reel like that from a pro men's league?

 

[jigglysquishy]

Part of the hype gap came from where they played. Ovechkin played in one of the largest cities in the world, the heart of Russian hockey, and for one of the most famous club teams in hockey.

Malkin played in a small industrial city by Kazakhstan that had been closed to the west for 50 years.

It's like comparing prospects between the London Knights and Swift Current Broncos.

 

[WarriorofTime]

Part of the hype gap came from where they played. Ovechkin played in one of the largest cities in the world, the heart of Russian hockey, and for one of the most famous club teams in hockey.

Malkin played in a small industrial city by Kazakhstan that had been closed to the west for 50 years.

It's like comparing prospects between the London Knights and Swift Current Broncos.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think Ovechkin hype blew up when he scored a million goals at the IIHF U18s (which was at the time still a pretty new tournament). This was in 2002, meaning Ovechkin was still two years removed from being draft eligible (Ovechkin was 16 but had a late birthday). He scored 3 more goals in the 2002 tournament than Kovalchuk did a year earlier in the 2001 tournament (in Kovalchuk's draft year) and Kovalchuk went 1st overall in 2001 with a good bit of hype himself.

 

[wetcoast]

John Tavares was really hyped in his early junior days but despite remaining 1st overall, his hype fizzled down quite a bit by the time of the draft. He would have been another candidate, as would Shane Wright, if they had kept their early momentum going.

Skating always held Tavares back as an elite prospect though and yes he "peaked" early but still has carved out a HHOF career.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

Reading some threads from 2004 on Hfboards, it is crazy that people thought Malkin's size was a concern, that he was too skinny (he was like 6 3 190 lbs). Relics of the 1990s obsession with size. No one would bat an eye today at this, right? Ovy was already a man physically, this seemed like a big reason people preferred him.

I also recall that Malkin was considered a good two-way player back then.

The irony is Malkin never really bulked up. Even now he's around 195 lbs. He's always been on the "skinny" side.

As far as scouting report, based on some of the stuff I read it almost made it sound like Malkin was going to be a Barkov-type player (point per game center who was strong defensively). Seems his defense ended up being over-hyped, but his offensive ceiling was under-hyped.

 

[WarriorofTime]

The irony is Malkin never really bulked up. Even now he's around 195 lbs. He's always been on the "skinny" side.

As far as scouting report, based on some of the stuff I read it almost made it sound like Malkin was going to be a Barkov-type player (point per game center who was strong defensively). Seems his defense ended up being over-hyped, but his offensive ceiling was under-hyped.

Tall and lean (where there's still a good bit of mass, but not built like a Defensive Lineman) is a very good build imo. Apparently Pronger was billed at 220, but I bet he was like 10-15 pounds lighter in reality.

 

[TeeTee]

Malkin's hype justifiably grew leaps and bounds in the 2 years post-draft when he was tearing the RSL a new one.

As a Pens fan, the prospect of this guy joining Crosby back in the summer of '06 was unreal. To this day, still my favourite prospect video:



What 6'3" center prospect has a reel like that from a pro men's league?

Wow! I have never seen this. What an incredible talent.

 

[PistolPete]

Lecavalier was definitely more hyped than Thornton, IMO. It didn't help that Vinny had that ridiculous "Michael Jordan of hockey" moniker attached to him thanks to one of Tampa's owners in the lead-up to the draft. Thornton was highly touted but was viewed as quite green and a bit of a project even though scouts were convinced if he hit he was going to be a game changer. Vinny was the big french Canadian skilled posterboy.

This reminded me of when one of Bob Probert's lawyers equated him with Babe Ruth with respect to importance to thr game. Imagine?!

 

[Hippasus]

Wait was it Vinny or Stamkos that was compared to Jordan?

Don't tell me it was both lol Oh man

Vincent Lecavalier.

 

[Stephen]

He wouldn’t have gone that high. I distinctly remember the Ovechkin and Malkin debates from 2004 and the comparables were Kovalchuk and Lecavalier plus plus and minus but nothing to suggest Malkin was the best prospect or most hyped since Lindros.

 

[Hippasus]

Tall and lean (where there's still a good bit of mass, but not built like a Defensive Lineman) is a very good build imo. Apparently Pronger was billed at 220, but I bet he was like 10-15 pounds lighter in reality.

I'm skeptical of this. I saw a picture of him next to, perhaps, prime Lindros. Dude was built.

 

[BobCole]

Tall and lean (where there's still a good bit of mass, but not built like a Defensive Lineman) is a very good build imo. Apparently Pronger was billed at 220, but I bet he was like 10-15 pounds lighter in reality.

Met Pronger a few times when he was still playing. He was every bit of 220, probably bigger. Tiny feet, though!!

 

[Leafshater67]

Tbh Hedman over Tavares played out, although it took a long time to get there.

I remember people saying Hedman was a total bust his first few years in the league. Now they’re saying the same about Owen Power.

Am I saying Power is Hedman? Not at all. Just saying I remember those times where Hedman was tore apart before he developed into one of the games’ best.

 

[The Macho Man]

I remember people saying Hedman was a total bust his first few years in the league. Now they’re saying the same about Owen Power.

Am I saying Power is Hedman? Not at all. Just saying I remember those times where Hedman was tore apart before he developed into one of the games’ best.

He was deployed oddly early in his career. Tampa really tried to force a RHS on the point for the PP so he just didn't get a shot there, and he was used in pretty heavy defensive minutes instead of a chance for offense. Obviously ended up working out but that feels more like credit to Hedman (and apparently Ohlund who mentored him heavily) than deliberate development by TB.

Shockingly, when he was put on PP1 suddenly his offense blossomed.

 

[Crosby2010]

I can recall the 2006 WJC. Both Crosby and Malkin were rookies in the NHL while Malkin - who easily could have made the NHL but opted to stay another year in Russia if I recall - was playing in the WJC for Russia. I can remember the talk at the time that despite the hot start to the career of both Sid and Ovie that Malkin could possibly be better than both of them. I always tend to favour the player doing what they are doing in the NHL over a prospect, so I was skeptical, but he did shine with 10 points in 6 games. It was only Canada that managed to shut him down. When you saw him play it was clear he was on their level. That was my thought anyway.

And let's not forget, from 2007-'09 there wasn't much difference at all between the three of them. Some injuries caught up to Malkin but even in 2012 he was the best player in the NHL that year. When he was healthy there was definitely a time when he was right on par with both Crosby and Ovechkin. That is true. And as a prospect he was definitely talked very highly. It just got overshadowed by the other two already lighting up the NHL.

 

[WarriorofTime]

I can recall the 2006 WJC. Both Crosby and Malkin were rookies in the NHL while Malkin - who easily could have made the NHL but opted to stay another year in Russia if I recall

He basically took off in the middle of the night from Helsinki and cancelled his contract, that he claimed he signed under duress.

Malkin in the Middle of This Hockey Struggle

Seated in the sunny lobby of a beachfront hotel in Santa Monica, his feet in flip-flops and his long fingers skimming the keys of a cellphone, Evgeni Malkin looked more like a bellboy than a budding hockey superstar whose hurried departure from his Russian homeland echoed the plot of a Cold War spy…

www.latimes.com

Surprisingly, he returned to Metallurg Magnitogorsk during the Lockout though.

 

[Matsun]

I think Malkin as a prospect was really special with his size, skating, iq and skill. Probably one of the best prospects ever really but he did not have the hype to match.

I think when there are alot of strong prospects in a short time that some guys end up with less hype than they should, like there is only so much hype to go around. Malkin was in the same draft as Ovechkin, before Crosby and after Kovalchuk- all very hyped prospects. Maybe we as fans think it's unrealistic that all these prospects cant possibly be this good in a short time so some of them become underrated? And then in return some prospects get overrated when we haven't gotten a good one in a while like we are due for someone great.

 

[Nick Hansen]

I'm skeptical of this. I saw a picture of him next to, perhaps, prime Lindros. Dude was built.

 

[BenchBrawl]

I definitely recall way more hype for Kovalchuk than for Malkin. Malkin was more of a mystery, but Kovalchuk surpassed Spezza, who himself was very highly hyped.


Tavares' hype slipped a lot going into his draft season, to the point where McKenzie's poll before the 2008 draft had most scouts picking Stamkos over Tavares. It went up a lot again after the WJC.

I don't recall Malkin being as highly hyped as some of the posts here indicate. There was barely any video of him, in my memory, but I do recall there was talk of scouts being way higher on him than the media was.

Interesting, I wonder how much of that is because Malkin wasn't sure to come over NA.

That said, Kovalchuk was an insane talent. In terms of rocket speed, puck control and terrifying arsenal of shots, he is easily Top 10 all-time among wingers. Bobby Hull, Guy Lafleur, Brett Hull, Bernard Geoffrion, Charlie Conacher, Alex Ovechkin, maybe a couple more I forget about, perhaps John LeClair, Stéphane Richer, few wingers have had his quality of shot. But he had the rocket speed to go with it, can't say the same for Brett, LeClair, Geoffrion, Conacher, etc. Even Ovechkin was not as smooth a skater as Kovalchuk. In a sense Kovalchuk looked to be the next Bobby Hull.

 

[JackSlater]

Interesting, I wonder how much of that is because Malkin wasn't sure to come over NA.

That said, Kovalchuk was an insane talent. In terms of rocket speed, puck control and terrifying arsenal of shots, he is easily Top 10 all-time among wingers. Bobby Hull, Guy Lafleur, Brett Hull, Bernard Geoffrion, Charlie Conacher, Alex Ovechkin, maybe a couple more I forget about, perhaps John LeClair, Stéphane Richer, few wingers have had his quality of shot. But he had the rocket speed to go with it, can't say the same for Brett, LeClair, Geoffrion, Conacher, etc. Even Ovechkin was not as smooth a skater as Kovalchuk. In a sense Kovalchuk looked to be the next Bobby Hull.

Kovalchuk's hype was very high, I'd say very close to Ovechkin's. I'm high on Kovalchuk's talent (and how he ended up really) but some of it went to waste. I find it much easier to compare the hype for Kovalchuk and Malkin vs the hype for Bedard vs Malkin. Very different media environments in the 2000s vs post 2010 or so.

 

[BenchBrawl]

Kovalchuk's hype was very high, I'd say very close to Ovechkin's. I'm high on Kovalchuk's talent (and how he ended up really) but some of it went to waste. I find it much easier to compare the hype for Kovalchuk and Malkin vs the hype for Bedard vs Malkin. Very different media environments in the 2000s vs post 2010 or so.

Playing for Atlanta and leaving the NHL early was indeed a waste of Kovalchuk's immense talent.

Kovalchuk was a winner, you could see it when he played for Russia, or the few chances of showing leadership he got in the NHL. He had it. If he been put in a better situation people would talk differently about him.