MAF

[plaidchuck]

Yeah, some people have some serious ticks about what a goalie has to be to be considered a winner.

Like some of the perceived best have no cups at all.

Fleury was "good enough" to win. They hate that fact because, he was considered just an above average goaltender.

Yep a lot of it is cope since they heralded his leaving the Pens and then had buyers remorse when Murray overnight turned into an AHLer.

It is interesting though how most of the top cap era goalies had no cup wins but then slugs like Niemi and Crawford have multiple

 

[Dennis Reynolds]

Where did all the playoff beachball gifs go? There used to be a good dozen.

Great personality and great teammate, which made him really easy to cheer for. I always did, especially when he was younger. But I soured on him significantly as his tenure with the Pens went on.

The realistic assessment of Flower is that he was a tremendous regular season goaltender who ranged between unreliable at best and a liability at worst in the playoffs. If he didn't deflate his teammates' confidence each spring, the Pens would have one at least one more Cup during the core's prime.

But again, he was a likeable guy and I cheered for him again when he left the Pens.

Also- to the "three Cups" argument. That's absurd. Tom Kuhnhackl was more important to the 16 and 17 Cup runs.

 

[Lust for Life]

Surefire Hall of Famer when his time comes. As for the all-time debate, meh, who cares.

I'll remember all the good times he were a part of, and they were plenty.

 

[GilbertSeinfeld]

As soon as Lindros got in, anybody can get in now as far as Im concerned. Cant really just say one cup for MAF though, he did bail Murray out of that one series.

This is what the baseball HoF has become as well.

 

[SomeDude]

Also- to the "three Cups" argument. That's absurd. Tom Kuhnhackl was more important to the 16 and 17 Cup runs.

This claim is so stupid.

2016, sure, he was hurt and lost his crease to Murray who ran with it.

2017 he started 15 games compared to Murray’s 11 and won 9 of the 16 required. He also single handedly won game 7 vs the Caps. He absolutely was key to that Cup.

 

[JRS91]

Wrong. No. Absolutely not.

MAF won one Stanley Cup.

He’s a complier.

I don’t think he is even top five of the cap era.

Lundqvist, Luongo, Price, Rask are clearly ahead of him.

Then you get into the arguments like Holtby, Vokoun, Bishop, and others.

We don't win those two in 2016 and 2017 without him playing as well as he did. He definitely had a role.

 

[Gurglesons]

We don't win those two in 2016 and 2017 without him playing as well as he did. He definitely had a role.

He played one game in 2016 and got his ass handed to them.

Fleury cult is insane.

 

[Ugene Magic]

He played one game in 2016 and got his ass handed to them.

Fleury cult is insane.

He went to the last minute in OT, not exactly having his ass handed to him.

I'm pretty sure without Fleury's contributions earlier in the season the team is not in the playoffs. He is very much a part of that team's stamp for that cup. It's not his fault he got concussed. Even more so in 2017.

 

[JRS91]

Top-5 all-time? Are you insane?

I said arguably. I would still take Roy over Fleury, but compare their numbers.

Yes, Fleury played in a much more goalie-friendly era, but Roy played in an era without on a salary cup on arguably better teams.

He played one game in 2016 and got his ass handed to them.

Fleury cult is insane.

Before his concussion, he was one of the better goalies in the NHL.

It's insane that even after years of this guy being gone, winning a Vezina and Jennings trophy, making it to another Stanley Cup final, and putting up solid numbers while the fans of the team he used to play who have struggled to find a consistent starting goalie since he left continue to trash him even after he retired.

 

[Turin]

Don’t care what your feelings on him are, org wasn’t the same after he left. He was step 1 in the rebuild that became 3 Cups and 4 finals appearances.

 

[HandshakeLine]

I said arguably. I would still take Roy over Fleury, but compare their numbers.

Yes, Fleury played in a much more goalie-friendly era, but Roy played in an era without on a salary cup on arguably better teams.



Before his concussion, he was one of the better goalies in the NHL.

It's insane that even after years of this guy being gone, winning a Vezina and Jennings trophy, making it to another Stanley Cup final, and putting up solid numbers while the fans of the team he used to play who have struggled to find a consistent starting goalie since he left continue to trash him even after he retired.

I can name 5 better goalies before they even wore masks, lol.

 

[HandshakeLine]

And that's not a denigration of MAF, it's just the reality of the fact that he is not a top 5 goaltender of all time.

 

[Lust for Life]

Surely a GOAT goalie list includes Brodeur, Roy, Hasek and Lundqvist as four of the top 5, in whatever order you wish. Then you got guys like Sawchuk, Plante who were before most of our time. Who knows but it's a really tough argument to squeeze him in top 10.

 

[HandshakeLine]

Yeah, even if you want to argue that it’s impossible to compare pre-mask era goaltending with modern goaltending, you have at least 8-10 guys ahead of MAF, IMO. Fleury benefited from longevity, but we Pens fans of all people should be aware of how weak that argument is when placing people on the all-time lists.

 

[Pens1566]

Quibble all you must, he'll be a first ballot HOFer.

 

[edog37]

As much hate as this guy got, he's arguably a top 5 goalie of all-time.

He's definitely the best goalie in Penguins franchise history. 3 Stanley Cups, 2nd most wins all-time, 5-time all-star. He's definitely up there in my opinion with Brodeur, Roy, and Hasek.

Barrasso was much better. And no, Flopper was not a Top 5 goalie either.

 

[edog37]

Yeah, some people have some serious ticks about what a goalie has to be to be considered a winner.

Like some of the perceived best have no cups at all.

Fleury was "good enough" to win. They hate that fact because, he was considered just an above average goaltender.

Barely good enough to win. He was lucky Lidstrom put that puck in his chest in 2009.

 

[edog37]

As soon as Lindros got in, anybody can get in now as far as Im concerned. Cant really just say one cup for MAF though, he did bail Murray out of that one series.

The only reason Flopper has those two other rings is because of Muzz.

 

[hiptanaka]

Resented him for a while for the playoff failures in the early 2010s.

But he made up for it by stealing the Washington series, specifically Game 7, during the 2017 Cup run.

 

[Ugene Magic]

The only reason Flopper has those two other rings is because of Muzz.

Muzz has those two rings because of a really stacked team whom kept the shots down.

That 2nd cup he only played 11 games, Fleury got them through the tougher matchups early on.

That 1 year outlier 2 cups in his rookie year is his whole legacy.

 

[plaidchuck]

He went to the last minute in OT, not exactly having his ass handed to him.

I'm pretty sure without Fleury's contributions earlier in the season the team is not in the playoffs. He is very much a part of that team's stamp for that cup. It's not his fault he got concussed. Even more so in 2017.

Yeah it's more about giving someone their due than anything else. I had just as many criticisms of him at times but slagging someone as they go out the door is just in poor taste.

 

[plaidchuck]

If you don’t go by pure stat lines you can reshuffle these top all time lists forever. You could drop Roy and say he was on stacked teams, drop Brodeur since he benefited from the trap and dead puck era, move Hasek and Lundqvist up since they dragged pretty trash teams to the cup finals, move Jim Carey up for having one of the highest save pcts in the 80s

 

[HandshakeLine]

Quibble all you must, he'll be a first ballot HOFer.

Which is part of the problem. The a HHOF, like retiring numbers, has been pretty devalued over the years.

That said, as the hall exists now, MAF definitely deserves to be there. But top 5 of all time, lol, f*** off with that crackish nonsense.

 

[HandshakeLine]

I look at Fluery like the goalie equivalent of Gary Roberts, kinda. Above average career, a number of cup rings, all-star nods, and nominations, was a good mentor, deserves to be in the hall, but not the best at his role or position.

 

[wgknestrick]

Name one season where MAF was the best goalie that year