MacKinnon's point production dropped after Rantanen trade

[NVious]

I still think this was a dumb trade, haggling over a massive core piece playoff performer for 1-2 million is crazy to me.

I guess we'll see if the Avs or Stars go anywhere proving me or others wrong or maybe everybody loses and then everybody looks dumb.

 

[landy]

lol vultures coming out of left field apparently. Easy troll thread to ignore. Later

 

[Video Nasty]

They had great chemistry together. MacKinnon remains in the top 3 players behind McDavid, but from the outside looking in, Rantanen has always been a bit underappreciated.

 

[Frank Drebin]

Same is true vice versa: Rantanen has 52 points in 46 games = 1,13 ppg without MacKinnon in Avalanche.

Rantanen Stats Without Mackinnon | StatMuse

Mikko Rantanen has 29 goals, 47 assists and a plus-minus of +23 in 79 games without Nathan MacKinnon in his career.

www.statmuse.com

This stat is more to people who say Rantanen was just MacKinnon merchant.

what are rantanens stats with and without n8dawg

 

[jalapenoWithAnH]

These numbers are all pre 2022. Three years is a long time in hockey.

I’ll spare all the details but since the end of 2022 seasons Mikko hasn’t been the Mikko prior. His play and effort dipped.

He will always have an elite shot and an elite finisher but he’s never been ‘the guy’ since.

Every advance metric since has not been good. His Corsi away from Mack was bad and he was given multiple chances to drive his own line to no success.

I think he’ll still be a PPG guy in Dallas because he’s that talented. IMO, he won’t ever sniff 100 points being away from an insane line driver in Mack and a 90 point defenseman in Makar.

Might this have something to do with the fact that Rantanen's TOI peaked after 2022 and was 22min for the last three seasons there?

 

[Hale The Villain]

Probably has less to do with Rantanen leaving than a simple regression back to a more sustainable level of production.

 

[Romang67]

I don't think a P/G drop of .17 over 30 games is significant. I think it's noise.

 

[WarriorofTime]

Felt like Avs fans did too early a victory lap. Necas finished under PPG in Avs jersey this year as well. 83 combined is a very respectable season but Rantanen has 6 seasons more prolific.

 

[Master P]

lol vultures coming out of left field apparently. Easy troll thread to ignore. Later

Talk about the pot calling the kettle black lol

 

[S E P H]

MacKinnon has been playing injured since the Rantanen trade.

 

[Aashir]

Yea his production got worse going from rantanen —> Necas

Just like if Mcdavid had draisaitl go to being kempe or something

Good players play well with good players and better with elite players

 

[chet1926]

Fails to mention the whole playing hurt aspect. 29 hasn't played healthy since that stupid 4 nations tournament.

Be it fatigue and straight up injury, of course his stats were going to drop. Anyone who's watched him over the last 1.5 months could tell he wasn't fully healthy/right.

He was doing fine without 96 until that 4 nations tournament.

The real test for this will be next season, when 29 and 96 get full seasons with their respective teams. I'd venture to guess 29 will be his usual 100-120 guy and 96 will be 90-95ish point guy. Anyone who's watched these 2 for the last 5 years would probably agree. That's kind of just players they are. Both are elite, one is just high end elite and the other is the bottom of the elite tier.

 

[AvsWraith]

I still think this was a dumb trade, haggling over a massive core piece playoff performer for 1-2 million is crazy to me.

I guess we'll see if the Avs or Stars go anywhere proving me or others wrong or maybe everybody loses and then everybody looks dumb.

It's not a dumb trade, it was a necessary trade because they are 0-1 against Vegas, and 0-2 against Dallas in the postseason with Rants. They needed more depth and balance to actually compete. And since they are a team that cannot draft forwards, outside the top 10, to save their lives, Rants became the sacrifice.

 

[Booker T]

Is there a reason why so many posters shit on MacKinnon here? He's one of the best players in the game, just enjoy good hockey!

 

[jackjohnson]

If you look at his stats for the season:

MacKinnon with Rantanen: 75p in 45 games = 1,53 ppg
MacKinnon without Rantanen: 41p in 30 games = 1,36 ppg

There's a clear differene of almost 0,2 ppg before and after Rantanen trade. Ofcourse, whichever number you look at,his stats are still elite , but do you think him playing without Rantanen the rest of the season contributed to the his ppg dipping?

Kind of a pointless thread though. Good players help other good players to become great by helping each other out. I will say the same about Boeser production dropping as soon as we traded Miller. Its the reason why Canucks might not sign him since he is now exposed as more of a complimentary player rather than a core player.

 

[Statto]

If you look at his stats for the season:

MacKinnon with Rantanen: 75p in 45 games = 1,53 ppg
MacKinnon without Rantanen: 41p in 30 games = 1,36 ppg

There's a clear differene of almost 0,2 ppg before and after Rantanen trade. Ofcourse, whichever number you look at,his stats are still elite , but do you think him playing without Rantanen the rest of the season contributed to the his ppg dipping?

Need to factor in the big picture. So genuine questions from me as I haven’t followed Colorado. Did his ice time drop? Were any other key players like Makar unavailable? Did his pp and/or pk usage change?

 

[NVious]

It's not a dumb trade, it was a necessary trade because they are 0-1 against Vegas, and 0-2 against Dallas in the postseason with Rants. They needed more depth and balance to actually compete. And since they are a team that cannot draft forwards, outside the top 10, to save their lives, Rants became the sacrifice.

They also won a cup with him and are haggling over 1-2 million dollars.

 

[AvsWraith]

They also won a cup with him and are haggling over 1-2 million dollars.

Yeah, with him making 9 million. If he was making 12, they wouldn't have had Kadri as the 2C. who was critical in winning that cup.

 

[NVious]

Yeah, with him making 9 million. If he was making 12, they wouldn't have had Kadri as the 2C. who was critical in winning that cup.

They already lost Kadri, so that decision is already done.

They also already won a cup with Rantanen so bringing up other struggles is also a moot point considering that is a proven core.

Personally I don't think haggling with a top 10 player (playoffs included) over 1-2 million dollars when the guy is a winner and a playoff performer is a good idea, but we will see.

 

[AvsWraith]

They already lost Kadri, so that decision is already done.

They also already won a cup with Rantanen so bringing up other struggles is also a moot point considering that is a proven core.

Personally I don't think haggling with a top 10 player (playoffs included) over 1-2 million dollars when the guy is a winner and a playoff performer is a good idea, but we will see.

It's not 1-2 million dollars, it's 12M total! You're giving 12.6 to MacK, 9M to Cale, and 7M to both Toews and Landy. You can't draft at all. So you are just gonna fill the rest of the roster with AHL jobbers and hope the top line carries you entire way even though it's been proven that teams like Dallas and Vegas have the ability to shut that line down? It's a pretty shit strategy.

 

[NVious]

It's not 1-2 million dollars, it's 12M total! You're giving 12.6 to MacK, 9M to Cale, and 7M to both Toews and Landy. You can't draft at all. So you are just gonna fill the rest of the roster with AHL jobbers and hope the top line carries you entire way even though it's been proven that teams like Dallas and Vegas have the ability to shut that line down? It's a pretty shit strategy.

It is 1-2 million, Avs concede that Rantanen is worth 12 million, they think that anything beyond that is a total no go. As if Rantanen getting 12.5 or 13 is somehow killing their team.

Stars haven't won a cup with their better depth.

Vegas won a cup but that was through cheating and NHL favoritism.

Again, the Avs literally won a cup with that strategy, so it's not a shit strategy considering that post lockout 2/3 of NHL teams haven't won a cup, never mind if you think there is some "recent meta" that you need to adhere to, those deeper teams aren't dynasties nor have the stars even won a single cup.

 

[AvsWraith]

It is 1-2 million, Avs concede that Rantanen is worth 12 million, they think that anything beyond that is a total no go. As if Rantanen getting 12.5 or 13 is somehow killing their team.

Stars haven't won a cup with their better depth.

Vegas won a cup but that was through cheating and NHL favoritism.

Again, the Avs literally won a cup with that strategy, so it's not a shit strategy considering that post lockout 2/3 of NHL teams haven't won a cup, never mind if you think there is some "recent meta" that you need to adhere to, those deeper teams aren't dynasties nor have the stars even won a single cup.

He's not worth 12M, and Chris MacFarland knew it. He played with the 2nd best forward in the NHL, and the best defensemen in the league. His numbers are inflated by that. I guarantee that he doesn't hit 100 points next season.

Stars don't have a cup, but they seem to have no trouble sending the Avs home whenever they meet. Vegas too.

Again, they didn't win with that strategy. They had real depth with both Kadri and Lehkonen coming up with clutch performances throughout the playoffs, a great 4th line with Helm and Cogliano, and also a dominating, Conn Smythe winning, post season from Cale Makar.

 

[NVious]

He's not worth 12M, and Chris MacFarland knew it. He played with the 2nd best forward in the NHL, and the best defensemen in the league. His numbers are inflated by that. I guarantee that he doesn't hit 100 points next season.

Stars don't have a cup, but they seem to have no trouble sending the Avs home whenever they meet. Vegas too.

Again, they didn't win with that strategy. They had real depth with both Kadri and Lehkonen coming up with clutch performances throughout the playoffs, a great 4th line with Helm and Cogliano, and also a dominating, Conn Smythe winning, post season from Cale Makar.

12 is the new 9 with the cap going up, but what is he worth according to you? 10.5, 11? So again you're haggling over 1-2 million for a playoff performer that has won your team a cup.

And yet Stars don't have a cup and the Knights have the same number of cups as the Avs.

The point was that Rantanen was a massive part of their success, he should get the benefit of the doubt. I guess we'll see who's right.

 

[a mangy Meowth]

Is there a reason why so many posters shit on MacKinnon here? He's one of the best players in the game, just enjoy good hockey!

Not really sure honestly. This is probably the 5th or 6th thread this year that's been made to tear him down in some way or another.

 

[jalapenoWithAnH]

He's not worth 12M, and Chris MacFarland knew it. He played with the 2nd best forward in the NHL, and the best defensemen in the league. His numbers are inflated by that. I guarantee that he doesn't hit 100 points next season.

Stars don't have a cup, but they seem to have no trouble sending the Avs home whenever they meet. Vegas too.

Again, they didn't win with that strategy. They had real depth with both Kadri and Lehkonen coming up with clutch performances throughout the playoffs, a great 4th line with Helm and Cogliano, and also a dominating, Conn Smythe winning, post season from Cale Makar.

Rantanen's deal is worth about the same as Seguins, Nylanders, Eichels, Pettersons and Huberdeaus. With that in mind can you really say he is being overpaid? He already is the second best scorer during the time frame he has been in Dallas. I'm sure he'll come around as he gets used to this situation.

If Panarin (14.29 AVV% of cap) made his deal today he'd made around 13,5 million under the new salary cap.

https://www.spotrac.com/nhl/rankings/player/_/year/2025/sort/contract_average_league_cap_pct