MacKinnon vs. Barkov

[Asiantuntija]

Too much? 0.79 PPG vs 0.75 PPG career wise? What a difference.

MacKinnon is totally different player than he was one, two or three years ago. His ceiling is too much to overcome.

 

[rinne]

I think some in here are really underestimating how big the offensive gap is right now.

I don't think that is the point. I believe that people are questioning whether MacKinnon can keep it up or not. 1,52 PPG is sensational. Looking at what players even like Crosby and McDavid has done at recent years it is not too far of to predict that MacKinnon will regress. "How much?" is the question that should be asked. Barkov's PPG seems to be more sustainable. Barkov has been going +0,8 PPG for like what 150 games now? Last two seasons before this he went with 0,87 PPG. So his jump to current PPG hasn't been as dramatic as MacKinnon's. Barkov is so much better in other parts of the game that MacKinnon will have to outscore him for like 15 points consistently to be considered as a better player without a doubt. It is not impossible but it is far from certainty too.

 

[Addison Rae]

Surprised the computer nerds in Florida didn’t trade away Barkov for pennies on the dollar like they did with Gudbranson.

 

[Bjornar Moxnes]

Surprised the computer nerds in Dlorida did trade away Barkov for pennies on the dollar like they did with Gudbranson.

Because Barkov is actually an elite defensive player?

 

[Addison Rae]

Because Barkov is actually an elite defensive player?

A guy that logged 29 minutes a night in the playoffs isn’t elite defensively? Gudbranson clowned Tavares that series, playing 30 minutes a night.

You and your fake stat nerds don’t have a clue about how the game works, while you guys were crunching numbers guys like Gudbranson were working on their physique and their intangibles.

Keep dreaming and living in denial because your fellow nerds got canned.

Jocks rule !

 

[Binister]

pointless to bring up career stats

if mackinnon goes on a tear again next season are you gonna keep citing his career stats? even tho he's a top scorer in the league?

No, but that doesn't change the fact that Barkov is better defecively while producing PPG with a better sustainability on it.

 

[pb1300]

A guy that logged 29 minutes a night in the playoffs isn’t elite defensively? Gudbranson clowned Tavares that series, playing 30 minutes a night.

You and your fake stat nerds don’t have a clue about how the game works, while you guys were crunching numbers guys like Gudbranson were working on their physique and their intangibles.

Keep dreaming and living in denial because your fellow nerds got canned.

Jocks rule !

LMAO....all sorts of wrong here. But hey, keep believing in your great Dman Gudbranson.

 

[Peggy]

No, but that doesn't change the fact that Barkov is better defecively while producing PPG with a better sustainability on it.

lol then don't bother bringing up career stats

what makes it more sustainable?
are you one of those guys who tried telling laine fans that his shooting isn't sustainable?

 

[Beezeral]

No, but the offensive difference is too much to overcome.

You are the one who said that barkov needs to match mackinnons scoring output just to be in the conversation. But if he did, then mackinnon would be substantially behind barkov because the gap in their defensive play is currently much wider than the gap in their offensive play.

 

[cgf]

You are the one who said that barkov needs to match mackinnons scoring output just to be in the conversation. But if he did, then mackinnon would be substantially behind barkov because the gap in their defensive play is currently much wider than the gap in their offensive play.

I think his initial comment was more in the spirit of "lets see Barkov ever be close to this good offensively before we start taking that hypothetical seriously"

 

[Beezeral]

I think his initial comment was more in the spirit of "lets see Barkov ever be close to this good offensively before we start taking that hypothetical seriously"

Right. But even that was a ridiculous comment. Because if that gap gets closed, the thread isn’t necessary because there would be no doubt who is the better player.

 

[cgf]

Right. But even that was a ridiculous comment. Because if that gap gets closed, the thread isn’t necessary because there would be no doubt who is the better player.

Sure, but there were some Finns in here saying that Sasha could make it close enough for his defensive advantage to matter, when realistically Barkov will never average even close to 1.5 ppg like MacK is doing.

 

[Addison Rae]

LMAO....all sorts of wrong here. But hey, keep believing in your great Dman Gudbranson.

Whatever, nerd Gudbranson probably stole your girlfriend or something or bullied you in high school.

Gudbranson is elite and trading him has haunted your franchise as much as hiring the nerds did. We’re tou part of the Panthers regime that traded Gudbranson is that why you’re acting like he wasn’t the most valuable player in your organization.

Chips were on the table in the 2016 playoffs and Gudbramson played 30 minutes a night shutting down Tavares and bashing Euros like Grabovski.

 

[Ainec]

Sure, but there were some Finns in here saying that Sasha could make it close enough for his defensive advantage to matter, when realistically Barkov will never average even close to 1.5 ppg like MacK is doing.

1.5 ppg? Wtf. In that sense Barkov is a 1.35ppg player this season

 

[cgf]

1.5 ppg? Wtf. In that sense Barkov is a 1.35ppg player this season

MacKinnon had a quiet start to the season, scoring only 5 points in his first 10 games. Then the Duchene trade almost happened making this MacKinnon's team (finally going down less than a week after it broke in the lockerroom), and Landeskog joined MacK n Mikko on the top line; after which point MacKinnon transformed into the player who's gunning for the art ross right now. Since those first 10 games of the season MacKinnon has scored 73 points in 48 games, for a 1.52 ppg pace. So yeah, he's a 1.5ppg player since breaking out...and he's even hotter if we take more recent samples

It's insane how dominant he is. I thought he was taking games over before his wrist/hand injury in year 3, when he was ~ppg through the first ~30 games of the season that the rest of the team was sleep walking through; but even then he'd just take over here n there. Now he's blatantly the best player on the ice on every shift...at least every shift that McDavid isn't on the ice for as well.

 

[jbobell98]

Barkov. Has been producing at this high level for years now, and is the only top u23 center with Selke potential. McDavid, Matthews, Eichel, Barkov, Mackinnon, Draisaitl and Monahan are all star young centers but really only Barkov stands out for his defense. The fact he keeps up with the rest of them offensively is what makes me vote for him.

I know plus minus isnt the greatest of stats, but surely shouldnt a selke level centre being doing better than +7 on the year?

 

[FinPanda]

Sure, but there were some Finns in here saying that Sasha could make it close enough for his defensive advantage to matter, when realistically Barkov will never average even close to 1.5 ppg like MacK is doing.

Barkov is still very young and a lot of years left. Maybe he'll prove you wrong. But hey don't count the whole season if that helps MacKinnon..

 

[Narow]

Right now id say mackinnon. Its rather close tho.

 

[freecheese]

Cumulative career ppg averages:

Barkov is getting better and better every season as he is learning the NA system while MacKinnon’s production is oscillating. According to the graph, it looks like MacKinnon’s PPG will probably normalize to around .75 PPG throughout his career while Barkov is still peaking every season.

 

[BB88]

MacKinnon is actually good at defence too (and significantly better on offence).

Barkov is one of the best defensively.

 

[cgf]

Cumulative career ppg averages:

Barkov is getting better and better every season as he is learning the NA system while MacKinnon’s production is oscillating. According to the graph, it looks like MacKinnon’s PPG will probably normalize to around .75 PPG throughout his career while Barkov is still peaking every season.

Your not exactly an expert at reading graphs, are you?

PS it would be fun to see how "MacKinnon's decline" matched up with the avs overall standings, goal totals, how many 50+ point players he had to work with, etc. Maintaining the same scoring rate while the team around you goes into the dumpster is progress.

Barkov is still very young and a lot of years left. Maybe he'll prove you wrong. But hey don't count the whole season if that helps MacKinnon..

True that. Sasha is a monster and my expectations are already extremely high, so if he manages to surpass them he should become just too much of a joy to watch.

...but I’m still not holding my breath on him ever getting to the level MacK’s been at since his breakout

Barkov is one of the best defensively.

And MacK is the best offensively

 

[freecheese]

I wouldn’t say Mack is the best. His season may very well be an outlier. 57 games isn’t a great sample size, while Barkov has always been an upper tier defender.

 

[cgf]

I wouldn’t say Mack is the best. His season may very well be an outlier. 57 games isn’t a great sample size, while Barkov has always been an upper tier defender.

No doubt that Sasha’s resume before this season was more impressive so he has the sample size argument on his side. But MacK has taken that step that everyone has been waiting for. So using the player that he used to be against the player he is now, doesn’t seem too reasonable given the way MacK is just dominating shift in & shift out. He’s not merely so hot that every bounce is going his way, like a Wild Bill, he’s dominating.

 

[Jarey Curry]

It's what it was since they were drafted, which one do you prefer? An elite defensive center who is great offensively or an elite offensive center who is good defensively? MacKinnon himself said that you can't teach offense, so my conclusion it's harder to be top 5 offensively than top 5 defensively. And if someone is top 5 at anything in NHL he's obviously a monster of a player so I'm not saying Barkov is bad cause he ain't. He's a beast, but I am saying MacKinnon will end up playing the better individual career.

 

[Cousin Eddie]

Mackinnon is scoring at a pace of 110 points per 82 games with a good level of defense.
Barkov is scoring at a pace of 86 points per 82 games with ELITE level defense

Barkov is one of the best defensive players in the game, but based on this season there's a difference of 24 points between the two over the course of an entire season. Based on that I just don't understand how people in this thread can continue to say the difference between defensive abilities between the two is greater than the difference in offensive abilities. 24 f***ing points is a lot.

The big question is whether or not this is the norm going forward? If they both continue to score at similar rates the answer is absolutely Mackinnon. If Mackinnon's scoring goes down and Barkov's stays the same then the argument of the difference in defensive abilities is justifiable. It's not justifiable when one is scoring at a pace of 24 points above the other though.