MacKinnon has 150 points in his last 82 games

[BKarchitect]

What Mackinnon and Kucherov are doing kind of lessons the "generational" impact of McDavid

Does it? Or is McDavid everything we know him to be and yet there are a few of other guys in their peaks now who are just under that level and all-timers in their own right?

I’m not being obtuse…I am not studied enough in historical comparisons and equivalency to speak to how we will historically look back on these cohorts. And of course…the current crop has a lot to write yet.

 

[tarheelhockey]

Does it? Or is McDavid everything we know him to be and yet there are a few of other guys in their peaks now who are just under that level and all-timers in their own right?

I’m not being obtuse…I am not studied enough in historical comparisons and equivalency to speak to how we will historically look back on these cohorts. And of course…the current crop has a lot to write yet.

I think this is a case where Sakic again serves as a useful example. He was a great player for a very long time, but his peak in 2001 was on another level. Arguably the highest peak of any skater in the Dead Puck Era (I say skater and not player in order to allow for Hasek). But Sakic is not remembered as a generational player, because that insane peak was a step above his ordinary level of play. If he had done that for 5 years straight it would be a very different conversation. Same with MacKinnon, this run would need to look more like 500 games rather than 82 games before we start entertaining him as the equal to a McDavid.

 

[benfranklin]

I think this is a case where Sakic again serves as a useful example. He was a great player for a very long time, but his peak in 2001 was on another level. Arguably the highest peak of any skater in the Dead Puck Era (I say skater and not player in order to allow for Hasek). But Sakic is not remembered as a generational player, because that insane peak was a step above his ordinary level of play. If he had done that for 5 years straight it would be a very different conversation. Same with MacKinnon, this run would need to look more like 500 games rather than 82 games before we start entertaining him as the equal to a McDavid.

Jagr for sure at that time, but yes Sakic as well.

A couple more Harts/lindseys and Mackinnon will be on McDavids level. Two years in a row would be huge for that argument. He already has the Cup.

 

[tarheelhockey]

A couple more Harts/lindseys and Mackinnon will be on McDavids level. Two years in a row would be huge for that argument. He already has the Cup.

Even that really wouldn’t do it.

Their respective Hart histories are listed below, with R signifying the rookie year.

R, 1, 5, 3, 5, 1, 2, 1, 3
R, x, x, x, 2, 6, 2, 3, x, 5, 1

Even if you attach a couple of 1s to the end of that second list, it’s still manifestly not the same tier of performance as the first guy.

Kind of does a disservice to MacKinnon to push the comparison. Better to celebrate who he is than wish he would become something he’s not.

 

[authentic]

Sort of like saying Ovechkin lessened the generational impact of Crosby. Kind of, but not really.

McDavid has been the MVP and face of the NHL since he first stepped onto the ice. If anything the contrast between him and other guys whose peaks come and go is exactly what solidifies him as a generational player.

Also McDavid has shown another level in the playoffs on a couple occasions now, a level that’s only been met/exceeded by 3 or 4 players in NHL history. I don’t even doubt MacKinnon has 150+ points in him but I do sort of doubt he can manage 40+ points in the playoffs and top it off by nearly single-handedly dragging his team back from a 3-0 deficit in the Stanley Cup finals. That was the stuff of best of all-time type performances when the chips are down.

 

[daver]

It’s probably easiest to say that at his present level he wouldn’t have contended for best player in the world during the primes of Orr, Gretzky, Lemieux, McDavid. That’s most of the past 50 years but there were also some years in the late 60s, late 70s, late 90s, early 00s, and mid 10s where he’d have been right in the conversation with guys like Lafleur and Jagr and Crosby. I think of Sakic‘s crazy peak in 2001, MacKinnon has been around that level recently. It’s something to see, and really doesn’t get enough attention because we’ve been seeing some other all-time seasons at the same time.

Why isn't he right in the conversation with McDavid? He has been barely outscored by McDavid since 22/23.

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I think what he, and Kucherov, have been doing in the past two seasons makes one wonder if McDavid should have been placed on such a high mantle after his 22/23 season (i.e. comparisons with the Big 4).

McDavid is on Crosby/Jagr tier (and peak Lafleur tier). MacKinnon is in that 2nd/3rd tier with the likes of Yzerman/Sakic/Trottier.

McDavid has been the MVP and face of the NHL since he first stepped onto the ice. If anything the contrast between him and other guys whose peaks come and go is exactly what solidifies him as a generational player.

The same thing can be said about Crosby and Jagr.

 

[Ncit3]

Even that really wouldn’t do it.

Their respective Hart histories are listed below, with R signifying the rookie year.

R, 1, 5, 3, 5, 1, 2, 1, 3
R, x, x, x, 2, 6, 2, 3, x, 5, 1

Even if you attach a couple of 1s to the end of that second list, it’s still manifestly not the same tier of performance as the first guy.

Kind of does a disservice to MacKinnon to push the comparison. Better to celebrate who he is than wish he would become something he’s not.

While I agree, this just makes me sad af that he lost that Hart to Hall. In no way did Hall deserve it over MacKinnon.

 

[Arthur Morgan]

you can't just combine part of last season and this season that doesnt count
he has
140 in 82 last year
25 in 13 this year.
150 in his last 82 is just pure nonsense

 

[Nathaniel Skywalker]

Lol. Msck must really hate kucherov
5 point night amd 25 in 13 and still only 3 ahead of him.

 

[olli]

Also McDavid has shown another level in the playoffs on a couple occasions now, a level that’s only been met/exceeded by 3 or 4 players in NHL history. I don’t even doubt MacKinnon has 150+ points in him but I do sort of doubt he can manage 40+ points in the playoffs and top it off by nearly single-handedly dragging his team back from a 3-0 deficit in the Stanley Cup finals. That was the stuff of best of all-time type performances when the chips are down.

MacKinnon has been close to that level but never for more than 2 rounds. If the avs get their shit together then I could see MacKinnon putting up 40+ if they made the final. This year and last years MacKinnon is on a different level then 2022 playoffs MacKinnon.

you can't just combine part of last season and this season that doesnt count
he has
140 in 82 last year
25 in 13 this year.
150 in his last 82 is just pure nonsense

It’s just a fun stat, not saying he’s better than certain players because of it or ranking 82 game stretches.

 

[olli]

While I agree, this just makes me sad af that he lost that Hart to Hall. In no way did Hall deserve it over MacKinnon.

Hall winning that Hart over MacKinnon is proof that the voters favour Canadiens because his argument was similar but not nearly as compelling as Kucherov’s last year. If Hall was Russian MacKinnon definitely would’ve won the hart that year and if Kuch was Canadian he would’ve won it last year.

Why isn't he right in the conversation with McDavid? He has been barely outscored by McDavid since 22/23.

NHL Stats

The official source for NHL Stats including skaters, goalies, teams stats and more.

www.nhl.com

I think what he, and Kucherov, have been doing in the past two seasons makes one wonder if McDavid should have been placed on such a high mantle after his 22/23 season (i.e. comparisons with the Big 4).

McDavid is on Crosby/Jagr tier (and peak Lafleur tier). MacKinnon is in that 2nd/3rd tier with the likes of Yzerman/Sakic/Trottier.



The same thing can be said about Crosby and Jagr.

Daver I love you bro please man

 

[daver]

Daver I love you bro please man

What does this mean? The other poster is claiming Mac would be in the best player in the world discussion vs. a peak Jagr and a peak Crosby i.e. he would be matching them in points and/or PPG.

Do you agree?

 

[JPT]

Is that good?

It's fine

 

[KirkAlbuquerque]

Best player in the league

 

[ovikovy817]

I don't know how I landed him in my fantasy this year.

 

[Luigi Lemieux]

Fractionally even better over a few games larger sample size.

After starting with 9 points in his first 10 games last season, he has 156 points over his last 85 games since—1.835 PPG vs 1.829 PPG over his the 82 games outlined in the topic.

Unbelievable start. It would be something else to see him add an Art Ross to his collection and repeat as the Hart winner.

McDavid, Kucherov, MacKinnon. These guys are able to do what the previous Big Three never could. Put together 70 games, 80 games, and beyond heaters.

It's a much softer league with smaller goalie pads and point totals are inflated. Love seeing all the offense but dancing through the neutral zone at high speed untouched was not possible without someone trying to take your head off back then.

 

[Gaylord Q Tinkledink]

Guy is such a f***ing beast.

 

[Voight]

What Mackinnon and Kucherov are doing kind of lessons the "generational" impact of McDavid

He has double the amount of scoring titles as any other player since he entered the league, and his five are matched historically only by TGO, Lemieux, Jagr, Esposito and Howe.

& he has three Hart trophies, where as nobody else has won two.

 

[benfranklin]

Even that really wouldn’t do it.

Their respective Hart histories are listed below, with R signifying the rookie year.

R, 1, 5, 3, 5, 1, 2, 1, 3
R, x, x, x, 2, 6, 2, 3, x, 5, 1

Even if you attach a couple of 1s to the end of that second list, it’s still manifestly not the same tier of performance as the first guy.

Kind of does a disservice to MacKinnon to push the comparison. Better to celebrate who he is than wish he would become something he’s not.

Youre drastically underestimating the Cup win. McDavid needs that to solidify his legacy.

 

[tucker3434]

MacKinnon, Makar and Rantanen have done pretty much everything they could to cover for the loss of 5 of our top 9 forwards and league-worst goaltending. To be sitting a game below .500 is a minor miracle and entirely due entirely to the guys sitting at the top of league scoring.

 

[authentic]

What does this mean? The other poster is claiming Mac would be in the best player in the world discussion vs. a peak Jagr and a peak Crosby i.e. he would be matching them in points and/or PPG.

Do you agree?

Not sure how big of a stretch this is considering his play since the beginning of last season. I still don’t believe he is quite as good as them though.

 

[tarheelhockey]

Youre drastically underestimating the Cup win. McDavid needs that to solidify his legacy.

Absolutely. Imagine if Ovechkin were chasing that record without a Cup ring, what people would be saying about him. Fair or not, it’s a defining factor in the narrative about a player’s legacy.

 

[PM88RU]

Actually I’d love to see MacKinnon and Kuch steal some more Art Rosses, Harts and Lindsays from McDavid.

Not only that would show that the gap between them and McDavid isn’t that big, but also that’d make the competition much more intriguing and challenging and bring the most out of each one of them.

I really enjoyed last year 3-horse race, would love to see it repeated.

 

[tarheelhockey]

Why isn't he right in the conversation with McDavid? He has been barely outscored by McDavid since 22/23.

Sure, over that two season timeframe which has been MacKinnon’s absolute peak, he almost catches up. But extend that timeframe to any other season, going all the way back to McDavid’s rookie year, and the gap gets wider and wider until it yawns at near 200 points — bearing in mind MacKinnon had the age advantage during all of those seasons.

NHL Stats

The official source for NHL Stats including skaters, goalies, teams stats and more.

www.nhl.com

I think what he, and Kucherov, have been doing in the past two seasons makes one wonder if McDavid should have been placed on such a high mantle after his 22/23 season (i.e. comparisons with the Big 4).

McDavid is on Crosby/Jagr tier (and peak Lafleur tier). MacKinnon is in that 2nd/3rd tier with the likes of Yzerman/Sakic/Trottier.



The same thing can be said about Crosby and Jagr.

McDavid is currently on the Crosby/Jagr tier but he’s also on pace to surpass their individual career achievements, whether we’re talking stats or hardware. MacKinnon is not on pace to equal them, let alone surpass them. For Mack it’s really more a matter of his peaking at a similar level. McDavid has both the peak and the consistency, which is a mark of a player who can challenge the Big 4. Maybe he doesn’t quite make it there, but he has the potential, and he’s definitely set to land in the all time top 10.

 

[authentic]

Sure, over that two season timeframe which has been MacKinnon’s absolute peak, he almost catches up. But extend that timeframe to any other season, going all the way back to McDavid’s rookie year, and the gap gets wider and wider until it yawns at near 200 points — bearing in mind MacKinnon had the age advantage during all of those seasons.



McDavid is currently on the Crosby/Jagr tier but he’s also on pace to surpass their individual career achievements, whether we’re talking stats or hardware. MacKinnon is not on pace to equal them, let alone surpass them. For Mack it’s really more a matter of his peaking at a similar level. McDavid has both the peak and the consistency, which is a mark of a player who can challenge the Big 4. Maybe he doesn’t quite make it there, but he has the potential, and he’s definitely set to land in the all time top 10.

McDavid is the 4th best peak player ever, and I would have MacKinnon somewhere in the 10-15 range if his play stays on par with his pace since last season. It’s not a huge difference but I don’t suspect it’s one he’s capable of making up by reaching yet another level, although that would be really cool to see and I wouldn’t say it’s impossible given how serious he takes training and nutrition.