Prospect Info: Luke Hughes - part IV (final)

[Triumph]

Not playing him against Boston in a game that meant nothing was a stupid decision.

He was severely ill in the championship game he had played just prior to that.

Not playing him against the Rangers where he would have been as good as he is now was a mistake. Not having nearly a full month with him incorporated into the PP was a mistake. A team not playing arguably the top drafted prospect was a mistake.

He's going to be a special player, I'm not seeing where they went wrong not playing him, because he's not a special player yet. He would've gotten limited ice time against anyone. Remember that he has been sitting and watching for a month while everyone else on the ice has been beating the piss out of each other.

 

[devilsblood]

Not playing him against Boston in a game that meant nothing was a stupid decision. Not playing him against the Rangers where he would have been as good as he is now was a mistake. Not having nearly a full month with him incorporated into the PP was a mistake. A team not playing arguably the top drafted prospect was a mistake.

Are we talking the top PP unit?

Dougie had the 2nd most pp points on the team this year. In your hindsight scenario do you pull Dougie from the top PP? Or do you go 2 d-men on the top unit?

Or are we talking 2nd unit? In which case we are talking minimal effects. Never mind the brutal turnover in his first game on the PP.

It's easy to say now given our PP has been bad in these playoffs, but a prevailing thought on Hughes prior to coming to the team was PP wasn't really his big strength. Fast fwd to the 2nd round and now we want to act like he should have been on the PP in the first round.

 

[Jersey Fan 12]

Everyone has areas they have to clean up, all our defensmen have warts. Some much much worse than others. Why would a 19 year old be any different.

Think the issue some fans (myself included) have is that Hughes' "warts" were apparent playing against teenagers in the World Juniors and college students playing for Michigan.

Instead of spending time in the minor leagues addressing those shortcomings (as Kevin Bahl and others did) he is instead inserted right into the playoff lineup (with predictable results).

 

[Darkauron]

The whole team was absolutely horrible last night in every aspect. They all sucked

 

[JimEIV]

Both Luke and Jack have a tendency to suffer from a little "fine I'll do it myself-itis" when there is adversity in a high importance game. They need to both be a bit more patient/disciplined

I like this post.

It actually made me wonder...I wonder how Jaques Lemaire would've handled and used players like Luke and Jack?

 

[NJDevs26]

I like this post.

It actually made me wonder...I wonder how Jaques Lemaire would've handled and used players like Luke and Jack?

Just like he did Kovy?

 

[JimEIV]

Just like he did Kovy?

Probably. But Kovalchuk was older, more established in the league and had certain physical attributes most players don't...

I think more about Niedermeyer. A dynamic kid who really wanted no part of what Lemaire was selling and saw it more as restraint. But 30 years later realized the value in what was being shown to him.

 

[Triumph]

I like this post.

It actually made me wonder...I wonder how Jaques Lemaire would've handled and used players like Luke and Jack?

It's like asking would a dinosaur eat a Big Mac. There weren't players like Jack Hughes when Lemaire was coaching.

 

[JimEIV]

It's like asking would a dinosaur eat a Big Mac. There weren't players like Jack Hughes when Lemaire was coaching.

That's just all around silly. Stylistically there were players like Jack before, during and after Lemaire coached. He actually played with a couple.

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

Think the issue some fans (myself included) have is that Hughes' "warts" were apparent playing against teenagers in the World Juniors and college students playing for Michigan.

Instead of spending time in the minor leagues addressing those shortcomings (as Kevin Bahl and others did) he is instead inserted right into the playoff lineup (with predictable results).

Please point to a top 10 drafted DMan who went the college route in the past ~10 or so years who has spent literally any meaningful time in the AHL. I will wait.

 

[Triumph]

That's just all around silly. Stylistically there were players like Jack before, during and after Lemaire coached. He actually played with a couple.

It's not. The game is so much faster now all around that nobody like Jack Hughes existed when Lemaire was coaching. Stylistically, you can make a few comparisons, but they're facile - Lemaire didn't play with anybody like Jack Hughes, not when there were wooden sticks and goalies were routinely beat from above the circles on unscreened shots.

 

[JimEIV]

It's not. The game is so much faster now all around that nobody like Jack Hughes existed when Lemaire was coaching. Stylistically, you can make a few comparisons, but they're facile - Lemaire didn't play with anybody like Jack Hughes, not when there were wooden sticks and goalies were routinely beat from above the circles on unscreened shots.

You obviously never saw Guy Lafleur.
Take a moment.

 

[Triumph]

You obviously never saw Guy Lafleur.
Take a moment.

I just sought out Guy Lafleur highlights and if you can't spot the enormous differences between the game in those days and the game now, I don't know what to tell you. Nobody shoots from the boards like Lafleur is doing routinely in these videos. Goalies don't come way out of their crease to challenge because they're much bigger and play a better style and they don't have to take that risk. All of these changes in the game over the years have affected tactics, which have then impacted players growing up, and so forth. Likewise with coaches, the incremental changes in the game impact them. What's more instructive to watch is regular game action from around that era; it's a lot of dump and chase, the game looks quite ragged; it's being played by guys making 3x the average person's salary instead of 40x, there's no video sessions; it's fundamentally different.

Lemaire coached offensively gifted players, sure. He never coached a zone entry machine like Hughes because nobody was playing the game like that when he was coaching.

 

[JimEIV]

I just sought out Guy Lafleur highlights and if you can't spot the enormous differences between the game in those days and the game now, I don't know what to tell you. Nobody shoots from the boards like Lafleur is doing routinely in these videos. Goalies don't come way out of their crease to challenge because they're much bigger and play a better style and they don't have to take that risk. All of these changes in the game over the years have affected tactics, which have then impacted players growing up, and so forth. Likewise with coaches, the incremental changes in the game impact them. What's more instructive to watch is regular game action from around that era; it's a lot of dump and chase, the game looks quite ragged; it's being played by guys making 3x the average person's salary instead of 40x, there's no video sessions; it's fundamentally different.

Lemaire coached offensively gifted players, sure. He never coached a zone entry machine like Hughes because nobody was playing the game like that when he was coaching.

This is beyond foolish. Lafleur was widely considered the best skater of his time [edit Orr was the best skater but Lafleur was probably faster)] and always "head maned the puck" as they used to say, into the zone...now we use "zone entries".

Yes the goalies sucked and shots frequently beat them from outside and along the boards...but Lafleur danced around people with his speed and shiftiness just as frequently.

Of course the game and technology has changed... stylistically the players are still filling very similar roles with very similar skills and attributes. To say otherwise is just nonsensical.

 

[Triumph]

This is beyond foolish. Lafleur was widely considered the best skater of his time [edit Orr was the best skater but Lafleur was probably faster)] and always "head maned the puck" as they used to say, into the zone...now we use "zone entries".

Yes the goalies sucked and shots frequently beat them from outside and along the boards...but Lafleur danced around people with his speed and shiftiness just as frequently.

Of course the game and technology has changed... stylistically the players are still filling very similar roles with very similar skills and attributes. To say otherwise is just nonsensical.

Lafleur was an amazing player, no doubt. I'm not diminshing his skill at all. But notice how he's shooting from the right side of the ice almost always in these plays? The players didn't even use Euro-style overlaps until Kurri - forwards would just skate up and down the ice like bubble hockey players. We're in an era now where 4th line forwards will use drop passes. It's just not the same.

Anyway this has gotten far afield, but Lemaire never coached a player like Jack Hughes, and I stand by that. Luke Hughes, I suppose Niedermayer is similar in theory, but again the game has changed massively.

 

[Unknown Caller]

Asking a 19 year old with 2 career games played to step into the playoffs and contribute is asking alot. He's had some momemts but playoff games magnify mistakes. And he's had some big ones.

Agreed.

 

[Jason MacIsaac]

Are we talking the top PP unit?

Dougie had the 2nd most pp points on the team this year. In your hindsight scenario do you pull Dougie from the top PP? Or do you go 2 d-men on the top unit?

Or are we talking 2nd unit? In which case we are talking minimal effects. Never mind the brutal turnover in his first game on the PP.

It's easy to say now given our PP has been bad in these playoffs, but a prevailing thought on Hughes prior to coming to the team was PP wasn't really his big strength. Fast fwd to the 2nd round and now we want to act like he should have been on the PP in the first round.

NJ is optimally set up to use two defensmen on PP1 IMO. Hamilton is the only player capable of being the shooter on the flank.

Think the issue some fans (myself included) have is that Hughes' "warts" were apparent playing against teenagers in the World Juniors and college students playing for Michigan.

Instead of spending time in the minor leagues addressing those shortcomings (as Kevin Bahl and others did) he is instead inserted right into the playoff lineup (with predictable results).

What were these warts and show examples where they showed up last night?

 

[Jersey Fan 12]

NJ is optimally set up to use two defensmen on PP1 IMO. Hamilton is the only player capable of being the shooter on the flank.


What were these warts and show examples where they showed up last night?

Inattentive to detail, particularly in his own end, and a complete lack of understanding of defensive play.

He is basically Keith Yandle; not in a good way.

 

[Unknown Caller]

 

[Jersey Fan 12]

I like this post.

It actually made me wonder...I wonder how Jaques Lemaire would've handled and used players like Luke and Jack?

Biggest comparison I can figure is the way both Lemaire and Pete DeBoer coached Ilya Kovalchuk. Like the Hughes Brothers, when Ilya first arrived it was almost as if the other team had a man advantage when the other team had the puck in the Devils' zone.

Gradually Kovalchuk became better at breaking up plays and the Devils eventually reached the Cup finals.

 

[Jason MacIsaac]

Inattentive to detail, particularly in his own end, and a complete lack of understanding of defensive play.

He is basically Keith Yandle; not in a good way.

These are blanket statements, please elaborate.

 

[devilsblood]

NJ is optimally set up to use two defensmen on PP1 IMO. Hamilton is the only player capable of being the shooter on the flank.

So then either Bratt or Meier are off.

Now I've thought Bratt's spot was in jeopardy the moment they got Meier, but he does have the 3rd most pp points on the team, and 2nd most amongst fwds. Tied for 2nd overall in goals.

It's easy in hindsight given how bad the pp has been in the playoffs to say take Bratt out and put in the rookie with no experience, but at the time it was not a reasonable option.

Both Luke and Jack have a tendency to suffer from a little "fine I'll do it myself-itis" when there is adversity in a high importance game. They need to both be a bit more patient/disciplined

That was 100% my thought when Luke was trying to go coast to coast only to lose it on the far side of the red line. If we have both Jack and Luke doing this, that just ain't good team play.

 

[devilsblood]

Which is crazy given how good his xGF was in his first game.

I'm being sarcastic btw.

 

[Jersey Fan 12]

Give him a full season of getting used to the size and speed of NHLers and how quick lanes close down, he is going to be a trap beater and a cheat code for entries on PPs for years to come.

Or he could start in the AHL- like the majority of players not named Hughes do; learning to be a professional hockey player.

Nothing in his game suggests he is NHL-ready - and at 20 years old that is fine.

He is simply not Owen Power and is not ready.

 

[devilsblood]

Ruff says he thought we were slow last night and no on ice skate today or tomorrow.

Implication being he thinks fatigue is a factor.