OT: Los Angeles Angels Talk
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Awesome trade. Wonder if they try and keep him? Marsh should be moved for a pitcher...
Dr Johnny Fever
Eggplant and Teal
mightyquack
eggplant and jade or bust
- Apr 28, 2010
- 26,653
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To be fair the Angels athletic writer did say a big league starter is coming back in the trade too.
Andy Pages is the prospect they're getting back too, another outfield prospect but hit 19 homers in 63 games in rookie ball this year.
Andy Pages is the prospect they're getting back too, another outfield prospect but hit 19 homers in 63 games in rookie ball this year.
All Mighty
Registered User
I did like Rengifo, but there was no spot for him here in the near future. Wouldn't be surprised if he becomes a very useful player for the Dodgers.
Dr Johnny Fever
Eggplant and Teal
Hockey Duckie
Registered User
There's more to the Joc trade.
To Angels: OF Joc, a big league starter, and a prospect (OF Andy Pages, 19 years old)
To Dodgers: INF Rengifo and a prospect
With what's on the table, it appears the Angels are going to try to outhit the MLB. With acquiring Joc (who's a rental for this year), Goodwin get pushed to 4th OF and Adell stays in the minors a bit longer. I hope we get pitching. BTW, Fletcher from the OCR said that Pages was #23rd rank prospect for the Dodgers, but would ranked #8 - #10 for the Angels. Yikes and Yes!
To Angels: OF Joc, a big league starter, and a prospect (OF Andy Pages, 19 years old)
To Dodgers: INF Rengifo and a prospect
With what's on the table, it appears the Angels are going to try to outhit the MLB. With acquiring Joc (who's a rental for this year), Goodwin get pushed to 4th OF and Adell stays in the minors a bit longer. I hope we get pitching. BTW, Fletcher from the OCR said that Pages was #23rd rank prospect for the Dodgers, but would ranked #8 - #10 for the Angels. Yikes and Yes!
Hockey Duckie
Registered User
I think it's a salary dump for the Dodgers. We're getting two MLB players and a prospect. They're getting two prospects, if you consider Rengifo somewhat a prospect still. He's buried at the INF behind 3B Rendon, SS Simba, 2B La Stella, and utility Fletcher.
If anything, we could trade Joc at the trade deadline for a playoff team if we're already behind the 8-ball and would give Adell some MLB experience.
Deuce22
Registered User
Dodgers dumping Joc's salary, plus there wasn't a spot for him in the lineup moving forward. He crushes righties, but Angels will need to find a platoon partner for him. Dodgers like versatile defensive guys like Rengifo. He will probably eventually replace Taylor or Hernandez as a utility bench piece.
Hockey Duckie
Registered User
Anaheim4ever
Registered User
- Jun 15, 2017
- 9,238
- 5,842
Angels lineup is gonna destroy pitching.
When Ohtani DHs:
2B Fletcher - good OBP to get on base for Ohtani & Trout.
DH Ohtani
CF Trout
3B Rendon
RF Pederson
1B LaStella
LF Upton
C Castro
SS Simmons
Bench: Goodwin & Pujols.
When Ohtani pitches:
2B Fletcher
CF Trout
3B Rendon
RF Pederson
1B LaStella
LF Goodwin
DH Upton - his defense is bad so he can have the DH when Ohtani is pitching.
C Castro
SS Simmons
Bench: Pujols.
Keeping Pujols out of the lineup will lead to more wins. Of course if Upton continues to suck then Pujols can DH when Ohtani pitches.
When Ohtani DHs:
2B Fletcher - good OBP to get on base for Ohtani & Trout.
DH Ohtani
CF Trout
3B Rendon
RF Pederson
1B LaStella
LF Upton
C Castro
SS Simmons
Bench: Goodwin & Pujols.
When Ohtani pitches:
2B Fletcher
CF Trout
3B Rendon
RF Pederson
1B LaStella
LF Goodwin
DH Upton - his defense is bad so he can have the DH when Ohtani is pitching.
C Castro
SS Simmons
Bench: Pujols.
Keeping Pujols out of the lineup will lead to more wins. Of course if Upton continues to suck then Pujols can DH when Ohtani pitches.
mightyquack
eggplant and jade or bust
- Apr 28, 2010
- 26,653
- 5,761
All Mighty
Registered User
I was hoping it would be Stripling. Not a stud, but a quality pitcher nonetheless. I can't believe we still don't know the whole deal yet.
Hockey Duckie
Registered User
Stripling has been a positive WAR (Wins Above Replacement) pitcher in all his four years in the MLB. Last year, we put onto the mound 13 pitchers who gave us negative WAR. The fact an MLB pitcher was added is a surprise b/c Eppler usually focuses on positional players. Then again, he got OF Joc and prospect OF Pages (who goes from 23rd in Dodgers' prospect organizational ranking to 8th in the Angels' prospect organizational ranking... which is just sad for us.)
Hockey Duckie
Registered User
Wait... first it was just one other prospect from the Angels. Now, it's being reported it's more than one? huh. I guess since it's a pitcher, they Dodgers upped the ante some.
Deuce22
Registered User
Stripling is decent, he will be better than some of the starters Angels ran out there last year. He throws strikes but is a bit prone to the homer. Overhand curve is a his best pitch. With Dodgers he was used to start and relieve so Angels have some options with him.
mightyquack
eggplant and jade or bust
- Apr 28, 2010
- 26,653
- 5,761
Given we're apparently not giving up any of our top prospects, probably not a surprise we have to give up more then one prospect. Rengifo + middle tier prospect for Pederson, Stripling and Pages would have been nice though.
Hockey Duckie
Registered User
I totally forgot we moved on from OF Kole Calhoun this off-season and his production is similar to Joc's. Acquiring Joc does help because OF Upton had a bad year last year and Calhoun has a surprising year. So Joc's acquisition is technically a draw for losing Calhoun, but great in that it keeps intact the scoring from the OF. Which makes 3B Rendon's bat more valuable.
That would mean Stripling is the key player here that we're banking on to be a #3 at the best or a good closer at worse. Stripling was like the Dodgers' #5-8 starting pitcher, according to various Dodgers publications (and this was before he was known to be traded). We're desperate in pitching that Stripling could be our #3. Great for us, but also a sad recognition. It's still an MLB arm and I won't complain. We're slowly creeping up in run differential with the acquisition of Joc (who replaces Calhoun's 2019 production) and RHP Stripling.
ugh... I really hate knocking down this good trade for us.
That would mean Stripling is the key player here that we're banking on to be a #3 at the best or a good closer at worse. Stripling was like the Dodgers' #5-8 starting pitcher, according to various Dodgers publications (and this was before he was known to be traded). We're desperate in pitching that Stripling could be our #3. Great for us, but also a sad recognition. It's still an MLB arm and I won't complain. We're slowly creeping up in run differential with the acquisition of Joc (who replaces Calhoun's 2019 production) and RHP Stripling.
ugh... I really hate knocking down this good trade for us.
The Mighty Duck Man
R-E-L-A-X
If you ignore that Joc is a very clear upgrade over Calhoun, I agree it's technically a draw.
Hockey Duckie
Registered User
| Player | G | PA | Runs | Hits | HR | RBI | BA | OBP | SLG |
| Calhoun | 152 | 632 | 92 | 128 | 33 | 74 | 0.232 | 0.325 | 0.467 |
| Pederson | 149 | 514 | 83 | 112 | 36 | 74 | 0.249 | 0.339 | 0.538 |
| P-Diff. | -3 | -118 | -9 | -16 | 3 | 0 | 0.017 | 0.014 | 0.071 |
P-Diff. = Differential with respect to Pederson.
Excluding Joc's rookie season, his 514 Plate Appearance (PA) is his highest in the past four years. This is because the Dodgers started platooning him and not play him against lefties. Will the Angels allow him to see 632 plate appearances or continue what the Dodgers have been doing with Pederson for the past four years and platoon? If we platoon Pederson, then 2019 is his highest PA and we can expect a similar production.
My contention is 2019 Calhoun and 2019 Pederson. Calhoun was part of the explosion on offense that produced 769 runs, the best in GM Eppler's four seasons in Anaheim by 58 runs. I can't predict what Pederson will do or how many PA's he'll have. But I can say his 2019 production replaces Calhoun's productions. Is Joc's production that much more significant? Joc is an upgrade, but not a very clear upgrade. Calhoun's WAR (B. Ref) = 2.3. Joc's WAR = 3.3. Rendon's WAR = 6.3. Rendon is a very clear upgrade over Calhoun and Joc. When you say "a very clear upgrade", I feel you don't understand what that phrase means.
We have to replace what Calhoun produced and Pederson can do that in fewer PA's, but that's also at the expense of not exposing him to lefties, which is why his PA's have been low for the past four years. This isn't like we got Joc to replace a void in the outfield. That's what I was initially thinking, going from 0.0 WAR (Hermosillo) to 3.3 WAR (Joc). It isn't.
It's a simple math problem. Here's the total runs from last year (just for simplicity sake). Remove "x" player and that total goes down. Add "y" player at that same position and that total goes up, but how much more or less? I guess some people like rhetoric and bias over actual facts. C'est la vie.
The Mighty Duck Man
R-E-L-A-X
Lmao thanks for making a table that proves me right, the other long winded stuff wasn't necessary. Insane you're still trying to argue this is a technical draw.
KaseMeOutside
Based
- Oct 18, 2011
- 44,246
- 10,134
Joc is definitely an upgrade offensively. Kole went 4 straight years under 20 homers until last year, Joc is also only 27.
Anaheim4ever
Registered User
- Jun 15, 2017
- 9,238
- 5,842
Deuce22
Registered User
-Using counting stats to compare when one player had 118 more plate appearances is not "facts."
-Pederson wasn't exposed to lefties by the Dodgers. because he has hit .188/..263/.310 in 375 lifetime PA's against them.
-Calhoun wasn't platooned by Angels either because they had no one adequate for that job or because they valued his defense that much. He wasn't good against lefties either (not Joc bad) last year.
-If Angels can find a decent platoon partner for Pederson, then right field will be clearly upgraded for them this season.
