Baxterman
Registered User
- Aug 27, 2017
- 6,939
- 1,499
In 1998 people had no issue. And Draper had no business in 06 either.
Yes they did. There was a ton of talk about basically all negative.
In 1998 people had no issue. And Draper had no business in 06 either.
I don't recall it at all. Everyone knew he was going and Messier was out.Yes they did. There was a ton of talk about basically all negative.
I don't recall it at all. Everyone knew he was going and Messier was out.
Um yes. Judging rebuilds depends on how long it took you to make the playoffs and what you did in them. Also I never argued that Toronto had a more successful rebuild than any other team. I was just arguing that the rebuild started in 2015 not 2008. Another thing, if our rebuild started in 2008, why did we trade 2 1st round picks for kessel?
Regardless of what you think you're wrong in stating that the rebuild didn't start in 2015Exactly. It's how long it takes you to make the playoffs. Before Toronto made the playoffs last time it was a decade before that. Most of those picks were top 10.
He traded the picks because he was incompetent. Trading a second overall pick and another pick that probably would have been higher if he had just accepted the tank was a horrible move and I don't think and leafs fan can deny that.
Regardless of what you think you're wrong in stating that the rebuild didn't start in 2015
I really wish all these people with the arguments of how rich the Leafs are and have an advantage would have said that previously and not predicted utter failure for them at every turn regardless of wealth.
They’ve been rich for quite awhile and were a failure for quite awhile.
Doesn’t mean it’s not an advantage.
But they were going to be a failure regardles of wealth.
I think we are mild (in terms of boasting) compared to what we have taken from goofs on these boards....Step 1: tank for years
Step 2: luck into elite talent (Matthews)
Step 3: repeat steps 1+2 until decent roster/prospect pool is achieved
Step 4: pay $$$ for good coach
Step 5: boast endlessly on HFBoards.
Step 1: Be mediocre for years and just barely miss out on top end talent
Step 2: People endlessly mock you for being bad
Step 3: Finally decide **** it and blow it all up
Step 4: Actually be able to afford top end management/coaching because you're not a peasant team that only has support when you're winning cups
Step 5: Be happy with your team and make threads about it
Step 6: HF whines endlessly because they hate that Toronto is the center of the Hockey universe with the most rabid fans
Well you are wrong son so no point explaining anything to you.Ahh okay, the whole "I don't have a rebuttal so I'm just going to say you're wrong" approach.
Nice.
Um yes. Judging rebuilds depends on how long it took you to make the playoffs and what you did in them. Also I never argued that Toronto had a more successful rebuild than any other team. I was just arguing that the rebuild started in 2015 not 2008. Another thing, if our rebuild started in 2008, why did we trade 2 1st round picks for kessel?
You might want to look at the Leafs stats from 2015-16 before you claim they tanked so hard. 15 points better than the last placed team from the previous season (Buffalo) and 21 points better than the last placed team the following year(Avs). And they lost the most 1 goal game in the NHL that year and added an elite coach.Flyers rebuilding strategy is better and is more honorable...
So, the Leafs are 6th in the league in terms of points. Definitely a good or even a contender team.
But looking back just two years ago, the Leafs were a dumpster fire and the worst team in hockey. What can the current rebuilding teams (Oilers, Arizona, Detroit etc...) learn from the Toronto experience?
The Leafs have done a nice job, but they also got extremely lucky in picking up an All-Star (and potentially Vezina-winning) goalie for essentially nothing. It was a smart move in hindsight, but goalies are always a crapshoot.
No luck about it. They scouted every available goalie for months and chose the right one.
You just have to stop with him. I don't think the light bulbs are flashing.
I think you're both looking at this a little too black/white. Leafs didn't fully commit to rebuilding through the draft until ~2015, but they also benefited from several high picks (e.g. Rielly, Kadri, and Schenn whose value they turned into JVR) from 2008-2015. So the speed with which they were able to improve from 2015-2017 via "rebuilding" isn't something the Leafs likely could have done as quickly had they tried that right off the bat in 2008.
I don't know how to define the ~2008-2014 stretch. It was arguably rebuilding in the sense that they had four top 10 picks and only made the playoffs once, but also arguably not rebuilding because they traded away two 1st rounders and a whole bunch of 2nd rounders, plus dumped good young players like Steen, Stralman, etc.
Regardless, it's very obvious which strategy was more effective. Focusing on the draft, moving out salary, etc, within a few short years was far more effective than ~6 years of JFJ/Burke/Nonis style aggressive retooling.
So they have 8 years of top picks but were only rebuilding for a couple?
You can attain top picks without actively trying to rebuild, for example you can have an absolutely delusional management who thinks the team is good and can win but in reality is an absolute dumpster fire, that is what the Leafs management was for the years prior to getting Lou and Shanny to run the show. Our previous management for so many years was just that stupid...bringing in older vets, washed out bums with inflated contracts to help lift the Leafs to glory, you look at the Komisareks, Versteegs, Beauchemins, etc etc
Also like a previous poster here already mentioned, the Leafs were mocked for decades because they never rebuilt through the draft, now that they have done that people are looking for ways to slant that too lol, truly the definition of salty.