Looking back at prime Niklas Kronwall

[hohosaregood]

i remember his leading back hits were a little controversial since he'd basically charge them and get people high near the face. and i guess since he was leading with his back, you couldn't really call them targeted high hits

 

[Booker T]

Man, I miss hits like this in the NHL.

 

[SirloinUB]

Heck of player who had some borderline hits and many squeaky clean but devastating hit.

 

[tarheelhockey]

You say nobody is debating if Kronwall's hits were legal or not, but then you equate them with illegal plays.

Thankfully the NHL has yet to introduce a penalty for hitting hard.

Putting your head down isn’t defenceless, it’s being stupid in a full contact sport.

The issue with Kronwall — and this was argued about extensively on this board at the time, as I’m sure you both remember — is that he found loopholes to continue with the jumping hits even when (almost) everyone else was already on the same page that this was not “fair game”.

His prime came right when the NHL finally had enough and established anti-headshot rules that amounted to “keep your feet on the ice, elbows tucked, don’t hit blind side”. That was enough to eliminate 99% of the bad actors.

Then there was Kronwall. He figured out that he wouldn’t get suspended for leaving his feet if he jumped at the last second with one toe still on the ice… he wouldn’t get suspended for an elbow if he turned at the last second so that their face went into his backplate… he wouldn’t get suspended for a blindside hit if he could catch them from the front with their head turned the other way.

So even though he was perfectly capable of being an effective hitter while staying away from the headshots, he actively chose to keep on laying guys out with concussions while staying firmly inside those loopholes.

It was just a trash way to play the game, and really not forgivable at a time when the CTE data was already on the table and we had guys like Crosby and Savard barely hanging on to their careers due to head injuries. It’s not like he couldn’t have played another way, he actually made the choice to use that technique to catch unsuspecting targets in the most violent way possible.

 

[Russian_fanatic]

Ah.

They are being logically consistent though since fighting is the event in itself in UFC whereas in hockey ita sideshow.

I personally find fighting in hockey boring and nowhere near violent enough to make it worth having.

Let me start by saying I do not support headshots what so ever.

With that being said hockey is a physical sport, and fighting has been apart of the game since... forever. I personally think fights slow down the game as well, but I'd never petition to ban them.

It's the same thing with open ice hitters like Stevens, Kronwall, etc... I think calling them a POS, rats, and head hunters is disrespectful. I'd save those slangs for guys like Matt Cooke who actually went out head hunting.

 

[Lazlo Hollyfeld]

The issue with Kronwall — and this was argued about extensively on this board at the time, as I’m sure you both remember — is that he found loopholes to continue with the jumping hits even when (almost) everyone else was already on the same page that this was not “fair game”.

His prime came right when the NHL finally had enough and established anti-headshot rules that amounted to “keep your feet on the ice, elbows tucked, don’t hit blind side”. That was enough to eliminate 99% of the bad actors.

Then there was Kronwall. He figured out that he wouldn’t get suspended for leaving his feet if he jumped at the last second with one toe still on the ice… he wouldn’t get suspended for an elbow if he turned at the last second so that their face went into his backplate… he wouldn’t get suspended for a blindside hit if he could catch them from the front with their head turned the other way.

So even though he was perfectly capable of being an effective hitter while staying away from the headshots, he actively chose to keep on laying guys out with concussions while staying firmly inside those loopholes.

It was just a trash way to play the game, and really not forgivable at a time when the CTE data was already on the table and we had guys like Crosby and Savard barely hanging on to their careers due to head injuries. It’s not like he couldn’t have played another way, he actually made the choice to use that technique to catch unsuspecting targets in the most violent way possible.

Yes yes, I'm fully aware your perception of what happened is the league put its foot down and said "this is enough," there was a new era of understanding CTE in the league, and all players began looking out for one another's brains, all except Kronwall.

Thanks again for your hot take.

 

[SirloinUB]

Yes yes, I'm fully aware your perception of what happened is the league put its foot down and said "this is enough," there was a new era of understanding CTE in the league, and all players began looking out for one another's brains, all except Kronwall.

Thanks again for your hot take.

It sounds like Kronwall would have been an elite ballerina with his ability to magically keep his "toe on the ice" while jumping

 

[Lazlo Hollyfeld]

i remember his leading back hits were a little controversial since he'd basically charge them and get people high near the face. and i guess since he was leading with his back, you couldn't really call them targeted high hits

It was such an odd adjustment to the way he threw hits. I never quite understood if he was doing it to protect himself, to take away the possibility that people would say he was jumping, that he thought coming in ass first was somehow more effective?

As a Dman he was a great backwards skater but it must've given him less control over his trajectory. Some of them ended up as a sort of hybrid hip check.

 

[PistolPete]

Let me start by saying I do not support headshots what so ever.

With that being said hockey is a physical sport, and fighting has been apart of the game since... forever. I personally think fights slow down the game as well, but I'd never petition to ban them.

It's the same thing with open ice hitters like Stevens, Kronwall, etc... I think calling them a POS, rats, and head hunters is disrespectful. I'd save those slangs for guys like Matt Cooke who actually went out head hunting.

Show 'em some Rock 'Em Sock 'Em tapes and they'll get an idea of what the hitting was like back then and Stevens et al we're clean by the day's standards

 

[tarheelhockey]

Yes yes, I'm fully aware your perception of what happened is the league put its foot down and said "this is enough," there was a new era of understanding CTE in the league, and all players began looking out for one another's brains, all except Kronwall.

Thanks again for your hot take.

You’re more than welcome to block me if you don’t want to read my posts.

As I said earlier, not “all except Kronwall”. There were a few others who carried on, and we can name them off the top of our heads. The difference with Kronwall was that he went to the length of coming up with unique hitting tactics to avoid suspension.

 

[PistolPete]

You’re more than welcome to block me if you don’t want to read my posts.

As I said earlier, not “all except Kronwall”. There were a few others who carried on, and we can name them off the top of our heads. The difference with Kronwall was that he went to the length of coming up with unique hitting tactics to avoid suspension.

So wouldn't that mean those new ways were clean since he never got suspended?

 

[Lazlo Hollyfeld]

You’re more than welcome to block me if you don’t want to read my posts.

As I said earlier, not “all except Kronwall”. There were a few others who carried on, and we can name them off the top of our heads. The difference with Kronwall was that he went to the length of coming up with unique hitting tactics to avoid suspension.

Why would I block you when it would deprive me of this kind of fan fiction?

I'm pretty sure they have Kronwall's white board enshrined at Little Caeser's Arena so fans can admire the genius of all the work he put in to get by NHL rules. He was really playing 3D chess and the league was playing checkers.

 

[Mr Nogatco]

There is a price to pay for hitting like that. I wonder how his brain is doing today. You can’t collide at that speed and not have your brain move around

I think the development of CTE etc. has a lot to do with genetic factors. Plenty of old time football players lived to old age without developing it. I think it will be more prevalent among the current generation of football players because the advent of hard plastic helmets/facemasks allowed players to lead with their head/use the helmet as a weapon in a way that was impossible before.

All that to say, given Kronwall’s unique hitting style and his avoidance of fisticuffs, he’s probably not at an especially high risk of CTE-type complications.

 

[tarheelhockey]

So wouldn't that mean those new ways were clean since he never got suspended?

You think a play is clean if the player doesn’t get suspended?

(I’m sure you don’t actually think this)

 

[nbwingsfan]

The issue with Kronwall — and this was argued about extensively on this board at the time, as I’m sure you both remember — is that he found loopholes to continue with the jumping hits even when (almost) everyone else was already on the same page that this was not “fair game”.

His prime came right when the NHL finally had enough and established anti-headshot rules that amounted to “keep your feet on the ice, elbows tucked, don’t hit blind side”. That was enough to eliminate 99% of the bad actors.

Then there was Kronwall. He figured out that he wouldn’t get suspended for leaving his feet if he jumped at the last second with one toe still on the ice… he wouldn’t get suspended for an elbow if he turned at the last second so that their face went into his backplate… he wouldn’t get suspended for a blindside hit if he could catch them from the front with their head turned the other way.

So even though he was perfectly capable of being an effective hitter while staying away from the headshots, he actively chose to keep on laying guys out with concussions while staying firmly inside those loopholes.

It was just a trash way to play the game, and really not forgivable at a time when the CTE data was already on the table and we had guys like Crosby and Savard barely hanging on to their careers due to head injuries. It’s not like he couldn’t have played another way, he actually made the choice to use that technique to catch unsuspecting targets in the most violent way possible.

You’ve been in like every single thread in existence being loud about your anti hitting club, also very strangely anti Wings for reasons I still haven’t figured out.

I couldn’t really care less what your perception of Kronwall is/was.

 

[tarheelhockey]

Why would I block you when it would deprive me of this kind of fan fiction?

I'm pretty sure they have Kronwall's white board enshrined at Little Caeser's Arena so fans can admire the genius of all the work he put in to get by NHL rules. He was really playing 3D chess and the league was playing checkers.

View attachment 1037316

The thing is, your join date demonstrates that you were here during all the long threads about his hits. So your sensitivity to the topic, including the use of terms like “fan fiction” to describe events you lived through, belies what you know perfectly well is a stain on his legacy.

If you enjoyed watching those hits, and the neurological damage they caused, because of the laundry worn by the guy committing them then that’s on you.

But don’t let me catch you saying anything about Avs fans looking the other way when it comes to guys like Claude Lemieux and Peter Forsberg. Not a word. You lose that card.

 

[PistolPete]

You think a play is clean if the player doesn’t get suspended?

(I’m sure you don’t actually think this)

I kow, this is the NHL, but technically if a player is not suspended for a hit, it means they're saying it's clean.

But it does speak to the subjectivity of the term since many hits haven't resulted in a suspension but many experts think it was dirty.

 

[nbwingsfan]

You’re more than welcome to block me if you don’t want to read my posts.

As I said earlier, not “all except Kronwall”. There were a few others who carried on, and we can name them off the top of our heads. The difference with Kronwall was that he went to the length of coming up with unique hitting tactics to avoid suspension.

There was nothing “unique” about it other than the fact he was better than anyone else at making it seem like he was backing off to have a player let their guard down and then suddenly closing the gap with insane lateral movement.

One hell of a skill

 

[nbwingsfan]

The thing is, your join date demonstrates that you were here during all the long threads about his hits. So your sensitivity to the topic, including the use of terms like “fan fiction” to describe events you lived through, belies what you know perfectly well is a stain on his legacy.

If you enjoyed watching those hits, and the neurological damage they caused, because of the laundry worn by the guy committing them then that’s on you.

But don’t let me catch you saying anything about Avs fans looking the other way when it comes to guys like Claude Lemieux and Peter Forsberg. Not a word. You lose that card.

A stain? He’s celebrated for it. TSN made a top 10 about his amazing hits. They’ve never done that for anyone else.

 

[tarheelhockey]

You’ve been in like every single thread in existence being loud about your anti hitting club, also very strangely anti Wings for reasons I still haven’t figured out.

Like I said to the other guy — can you please fill me in on why you think I’m anti-Wings? Like, even one other case where I took a negative position on a Wings topic?

I’ve never been the subject of a Mandela Effect before, and I’m not sure whether to be flattered or weirded out.

I couldn’t really care less what your perception of Kronwall is/was.

Then maybe don’t come to the main board? This isn’t a Wings fan club, you’re going to hear the general leaguewide reaction here whether you like it or not.

 

[tarheelhockey]

I kow, this is the NHL, but technically if a player is not suspended for a hit, it means they're saying it's clean.

But it does speak to the subjectivity of the term since many hits haven't resulted in a suspension but many experts think it was dirty.

This is, in a nutshell, why it was a controversy at the time and is the main subject of this thread.

 

[Lazlo Hollyfeld]

The thing is, your join date demonstrates that you were here during all the long threads about his hits. So your sensitivity to the topic, including the use of terms like “fan fiction” to describe events you lived through, belies what you know perfectly well is a stain on his legacy.

If you enjoyed watching those hits, and the neurological damage they caused, because of the laundry worn by the guy committing them then that’s on you.

But don’t let me catch you saying anything about Avs fans looking the other way when it comes to guys like Claude Lemieux and Peter Forsberg. Not a word. You lose that card.

"My sensitivity to the topic." lol. That's hilarious from the guy who's got Kronwall scheming to circumvent NHL rules. And then playing the neurological damage card. You have proven me so correct.

My first post in this thread was how for a time he was exploding up, which I didn't like. And a lot of people didn't like that he wouldn't fight after hits. Which has little to do with his hits. I've never claimed his hits were squeaky clean. But you just keep doubling down on your villainous take on him. It's fun to watch.

You seem like a last word guy, so have at it. Your take has gotten beyond the point of absurdity.

 

[max21]

Tom Wilson would have destroyed him

 

[tarheelhockey]

"My sensitivity to the topic." lol. That's hilarious from the guy who's got Kronwall scheming to circumvent NHL rules. And then playing the neurological damage card. You have proven me so correct.

My first post in this thread was how for a time he was exploding up, which I didn't like. And a lot of people didn't like that he wouldn't fight after hits. Which has little to do with his hits. I've never claimed his hits were squeaky clean. But you just keep doubling down on your villainous take on him. It's fun to watch.

You seem like a last word guy, so have at it. Your take has gotten beyond the point of absurdity.

So you agree with what I’m saying, but you don’t like when I’m the one saying it, so you start accusing me of having some long-running personal agenda, and the you act like I’m a crazy person for asking what your problem is.

Happy to have the last word on it. This was a weird interaction tbh.

 

[Nice]

I think of his visor. Probably more tilt than anyone I've ever seen