Confirmed with Link: Lockout continues Part V - Hockey cancelled till January 14th

[Stephen]

As a Leaf fan "Blow it up" is the best thing that could happen to this team.

Supporting the richest most profitable team and paying MLSE prices is best served if they can go freely shopping behind Leaf Nation's funding to buy better players than we have now, and deliver better results on the ice for us in return for that investment.

If Leaf fans want to get more bank for their investment & entertainment buck, then the NHLPA is taking us right down the road that would benefit us most in the long run, by allowing MLSE to flex its financial muscle to it full capacity for us bringing Stamkos, Tavares and Perry home.

A current CBA that has already forced our team into being the least successful and the only non playoff one in a cap world, is only going to get worse under the next new one.. Short-term 5 year contracts with 5% variance and higher UFA ages, and a 12% players pay-cut of HRR, lowers a $70 mil hard cap to $58-59 mil ceiling, which all cripple MLSE and Leaf fans money even more, and bring further parity. Making an already bad situation even worse.

Yep yep yep, could be the best Christmas present ever.

 

[ULF_55]

As a Leaf fan "Blow it up" is the best thing that could happen to this team.

Supporting the richest most profitable team and paying MLSE prices is best served if they can go freely shopping behind Leaf Nation's funding to buy better players than we have now, and deliver better results on the ice for us in return for that investment.

If Leaf fans want to get more bank for their investment & entertainment buck, then the NHLPA is taking us right down the road that would benefit us most in the long run, by allowing MLSE to flex its financial muscle to it full capacity for us bringing Stamkos, Tavares and Perry home.

A current CBA that has already forced our team into being the least successful and the only non playoff one in a cap world, is only going to get worse under the next new one.. Short-term 5 year contracts with 5% variance and higher UFA ages, and a 12% players pay-cut of HRR, lowers a $70 mil hard cap to $58-59 mil ceiling, which all cripple MLSE and Leaf fans money even more, and bring further parity. Making an already bad situation even worse.

But this lock-out is about owners' greed, and if the owners can get the players to cave and sign their latest offer MLSE stuffs huge amounts of money in their pockets.

 

[Bomber0104]

As a Leaf fan "Blow it up" is the best thing that could happen to this team.

Supporting the richest most profitable team and paying MLSE prices is best served if they can go freely shopping behind Leaf Nation's funding to buy better players than we have now, and deliver better results on the ice for us in return for that investment.

If Leaf fans want to get more bank for their investment & entertainment buck, then the NHLPA is taking us right down the road that would benefit us most in the long run, by allowing MLSE to flex its financial muscle to it full capacity for us bringing Stamkos, Tavares and Perry home.

A current CBA that has already forced our team into being the least successful and the only non playoff one in a cap world, is only going to get worse under the next new one.. Short-term 5 year contracts with 5% variance and higher UFA ages, and a 12% players pay-cut of HRR, lowers a $70 mil hard cap to $58-59 mil ceiling, which all cripple MLSE and Leaf fans money even more, and bring further parity. Making an already bad situation even worse.

Like I said...no explanation can be given to me why a Leafs fan...OF ALL THE TEAMS IN THE LEAGUE...would support the NHL's agenda.

A fan of the Predators? Sure. Makes sense why you like Bettman. As a fan of the Leafs.....what are you talking about?!?!

 

[Mess]

Putting up a united front for public consumption is fine but if you think there's only 22 players who'll sign the owners present offer if it was put to a vote then you're being foolish .

Well apparently Jan 2nd,2013 is D-Day for the "disclaimer of interest" filling in court to go down this path for the NHLPA..

So if a player voted Yes for the disclaimer and Fehr takes their support and does as they've requested/instructed him to do, then they can't cry later on that a CBA wasn't accepted as they would have no one to blame but themselves by casting their vote as they did.

 

[Bomber0104]

But this lock-out is about owners' greed, and if the owners can get the players to cave and sign their latest offer MLSE stuffs huge amounts of money in their pockets.

I guess MLSE accepts the fact that they make **** loads of money whether they are the worst team in the league or the best team and any marginal, incremental amount that they might make by being pro-labor (giving them greater ability to produce a winning team), will just be off-set by the cost incurred to get there.

Win: Make a bit more (billions) in a saturated market, spend more on labor, piss off the NHL

Lose: Make a bit less (billions) in a saturated market, spend less on labor, gain regional protection from the NHL

I see the pros and cons as a shareholder of Bell and Rogers, that's for sure.

 

[Mess]

Yep yep yep, could be the best Christmas present ever.

I've sent Donald Fehr a Merry Christmas eCard to thank him for my Maple Leaf fan Christmas present as a diehard long term suffering Leaf fan since the 1960's.

Donald Fehr could do for Leaf Nation that no Leaf GM came close to doing since 1967. No matter who the Leafs GM is after the "Blow it up" pin is pulled free enterprise and giving 800+ UFA NHL players a choice where to play and using that blank MLSE unlimited spending cheque book would be an unbelievable exciting time for Leaf Nation.

 

[ULF_55]

I guess MLSE accepts the fact that they make **** loads of money whether they are the worst team in the league or the best team and any marginal, incremental amount that they might make by being pro-labor (giving them greater ability to produce a winning team), will just be off-set by the cost incurred to get there.

Win: Make a bit more (billions) in a saturated market, spend more on labor, piss off the NHL

Lose: Make a bit less (billions) in a saturated market, spend less on labor, gain regional protection from the NHL

I see the pros and cons as a shareholder of Bell and Rogers, that's for sure.

Again: NHL owners with struggling teams, to the extent that they are actually struggling, are largely in the shape they’re in because of their fellow owners, not because of NHL players.

Read more: http://business.time.com/2012/12/19...-really-behind-the-nhl-lockout/#ixzz2Fu4ACXKU

Yep, if you are Bell or Rogers it is just product to put on the tv.

Wonder how much they'll be bidding on broadcast rights when the CBC deal is up for HNiC?

 

[Mess]

But this lock-out is about owners' greed, and if the owners can get the players to cave and sign their latest offer MLSE stuffs huge amounts of money in their pockets.

Like I said...no explanation can be given to me why a Leafs fan...OF ALL THE TEAMS IN THE LEAGUE...would support the NHL's agenda.

A fan of the Predators? Sure. Makes sense why you like Bettman. As a fan of the Leafs.....what are you talking about?!?!

Perhaps they don't understand all the consequences of wanting to see Larry Tanenbaum pad his personal bank account at their expense. Forbes had Leafs making $80-90 mil in profit last year and NHLPA going to 50% HRR and a 12% salary cut of Leaf players would make that nearly $100 mil in clear profits for MLSE not invested back into the team of our money.

I agree every Leaf fan that wants the best for his team and winning results on the ice wants MLSE to have the greatest financial advantage as the richest team to SPEND and not SAVE more of our money on players.

We should want more advantages not less in this next CBA and so the longer the NHLPA holds out the less givebacks that need to happen which only benefits Leaf Nation. Higher Cap ceilings, greater players free agency, longer and front loaded contracts all go to serve Leaf Nation better as it separates the have from the have nots financially.

Perhaps respectfully, we need Leaf Nation fans supporting Ownership to explain how it benefits our Leafs by restricting spending even more, in hopes it will make the Leafs more successful on the ice?.

 

[hockeyfanz*]

I've sent Donald Fehr a Merry Christmas eCard to thank him for my Maple Leaf fan Christmas present as a diehard long term suffering Leaf fan since the 1960's.

Donald Fehr could do for Leaf Nation that no Leaf GM came close to doing since 1967. No matter who the Leafs GM is after the "Blow it up" pin is pulled free enterprise and giving 800+ UFA NHL players a choice where to play and using that blank MLSE unlimited spending cheque book would be an unbelievable exciting time for Leaf Nation.

Too good to be true mess. No way Leaf fans will ever be that lucky. But I say...bring it on. Finally. Hallelujah.

 

[Bomber0104]

Leafs Nation needs to organize, mobilize, and use our dominant position in the NHL's bottom line to shape the CBA in a way that benefits the Leafs.

The first fan union in world history.

We would also be able to vote Brian Burke out and vote someone smart in to run the team.

 

[Budsfan]

Theoretically, if the players Decertify and their contracts are voided, the NHL could hire any players they wanted and that means the ones that don't sign a contract, or are going to be awkward, they would be just on their own and have to find places to play and that could include some of the top names.

I would think most of the Russians, may stay in their home leagues, as well as some other Europeans in theirs and an NHL season could start here immediately with players, many of whom are AHL'ers or lesser NHL players however I think most current NHL players, would eventually sign.

This however does not solve the overall problem of some of the teams losing money and I still think 10 teams should be chopped and 1/3 of the players left to find other teams and that should happen now, it may make the players scramble a bit, trying to get a gig with an NHL team, rather than playing elsewhere for less money.

This may be construed as union busting but it would also be a league restructuring and in the end may save hockey and I would think this is the purpose of this whole exercise, a strong League, with strong franchises, in hockey venues and a less watered down product on the ice.

 

[Jerkini]

Like I said...no explanation can be given to me why a Leafs fan...OF ALL THE TEAMS IN THE LEAGUE...would support the NHL's agenda.

A fan of the Predators? Sure. Makes sense why you like Bettman. As a fan of the Leafs.....what are you talking about?!?!

It boggles the mind, is what it does.

 

[ULF_55]

Theoretically, if the players Decertify and their contracts are voided, the NHL could hire any players they wanted and that means the ones that don't sign a contract, or are going to be awkward, they would be just on their own and have to find places to play and that could include some of the top names.

I would think most of the Russians, may stay in their home leagues, as well as some other Europeans in theirs and an NHL season could start here immediately with players, many of whom are AHL'ers or lesser NHL players however I think most current NHL players, would eventually sign.

This however does not solve the overall problem of some of the teams losing money and I still think 10 teams should be chopped and 1/3 of the players left to find other teams and that should happen now, it may make the players scramble a bit, trying to get a gig with an NHL team, rather than playing elsewhere for less money.

This may be construed as union busting but it would also be a league restructuring and in the end may save hockey and I would think this is the purpose of this whole exercise, a strong League, with strong franchises, in hockey venues and a less watered down product on the ice.

Players have to be willing to sign contracts, and we know with a Cap 7-8 million per year is the going rate for stars.

The stars would still get this money. For teams to agree not to pay that much would be collusion.

It is the lessor lights that would get hurt, but for the most part depth players are interchangeable anyway.

 

[ULF_55]

Like I said...no explanation can be given to me why a Leafs fan...OF ALL THE TEAMS IN THE LEAGUE...would support the NHL's agenda.

A fan of the Predators? Sure. Makes sense why you like Bettman. As a fan of the Leafs.....what are you talking about?!?!

There are some who would rather never have the Leafs win anything if they can put it to the NHLPA.

I get that, it is about seeing players making millions playing a game. Just isn't fair is it. Rather that money went to billionaires.

I for one wouldn't lose a second worrying about maintaining the Coyotes so the Leafs can visit once every 2 years. Seriously, who cares about those teams? If the Leafs ended up with just 23 other teams to play against it wouldn't bother me at all.

 

[asdf]

Like I said...no explanation can be given to me why a Leafs fan...OF ALL THE TEAMS IN THE LEAGUE...would support the NHL's agenda.

A fan of the Predators? Sure. Makes sense why you like Bettman. As a fan of the Leafs.....what are you talking about?!?!

I don't know about others, but personally I don't want to see the same 6-8 teams play each other 20 times a season. I want to be entertained, and more teams (within reason) means more games, which means more entertainment.

I don't buy into this notion that "Big Blue," or whatever you want to call them, is some massive juggernaut that is being cut off at the knees by the league and preventing them from dominating like no other sports team has ever dominated anything.

The Leafs had free reign to spend prior to 2004 and they didn't do any such thing. They fell short of acquiring all of the star players, just like they're doing now. The Wings, Flyers, and Devils had contenders before, and they still have contenders now even though they had the same thing happen to them that the "mighty" Leafs did.

Who cares if MLSE's money goes to other teams or their own bank vault. It's all just excuses for terrible management.

 

[Budsfan]

Players have to be willing to sign contracts, and we know with a Cap 7-8 million per year is the going rate for stars.

The stars would still get this money. For teams to agree not to pay that much would be collusion.

It is the lessor lights that would get hurt, but for the most part depth players are interchangeable anyway.

That would be up to the teams that are left and with no safety net like profit shareing, they would have to stay within their own budgets and hire players that would fit that budget, Toronto could excede any budget in the league but would be under the cloud, that, that could change if a union would once again be set up and a cap imposed and penalties levee'd against them so a team could skyrocket alright but be sent crashing back, if and when a cap is reinstated and those players currently making 7-8 million would have to fit under the team budgets or play somewhere else.

 

[Mess]

I for one wouldn't lose a second worrying about maintaining the Coyotes so the Leafs can visit once every 2 years. Seriously, who cares about those teams? If the Leafs ended up with just 23 other teams to play against it wouldn't bother me at all.

We cheered for our Leafs in the 1960's when there were only an original 6 teams in the NHL league..

Toronto, Montreal, Boston, Detroit, Chicago and NY Rangers.

23 teams still seems like a needlessly watered down product to me, as less teams is greater talent per team. .

Besides if the NHLPA "blows it up" you will have 10 big market rich teams or fewer, fighting over the best players and the rest of the league for whatever remains. Be like the good old days again.

 

[Bomber0104]

We cheered for our Leafs in the 1960's when there were only an original 6 teams in the NHL league..

Toronto, Montreal, Boston, Detroit, Chicago and NY Rangers.

23 teams still seems like a needlessly watered down product to me, as less teams is greater talent per team. .

Besides if the NHLPA "blows it up" you will have 10 big market rich teams or fewer, fighting over the best players and the rest of the league for whatever remains. Be like the good old days again.

Bye bye Phaneuf.

Worst captain in Leaf history.

 

[hotpaws]

There are some who would rather never have the Leafs win anything if they can put it to the NHLPA.

I get that, it is about seeing players making millions playing a game. Just isn't fair is it. Rather that money went to billionaires.

I for one wouldn't lose a second worrying about maintaining the Coyotes so the Leafs can visit once every 2 years. Seriously, who cares about those teams? If the Leafs ended up with just 23 other teams to play against it wouldn't bother me at all.

I support the owners in these negotiations because i feel what's on the table at this moment is a fair offer . I also support the owners because they have been up front in all these negotiations , they've never hid the fact that there looking for concessions . The PA on the other hand has spun every freaking offer they've made in the media , i'd have no problem if they just came out and said we're not giving anything back but this constant crap about how they keep giving is tiresome .

Also being a sports fan i want a level playing field for all teams . I don't understand where the enjoyment would be if a few teams could simply buy contenders every year . It would almost be like entering a Midget team in a Atom tourny .

As far a being a Leaf fan goes , are we such a pitiful organization that we can't compete unless the odds are totally stacked in our favour ?

 

[Bomber0104]

As far a being a Leaf fan goes , are we such a pitiful organization that we can't compete unless the odds are totally stacked in our favour ?

Yes.

Yes we are.

It's a foregone conclusion at this point.

 

[ULF_55]

I support the owners in these negotiations because i feel what's on the table at this moment is a fair offer . I also support the owners because they have been up front in all these negotiations , they've never hid the fact that there looking for concessions . The PA on the other hand has spun every freaking offer they've made in the media , i'd have no problem if they just came out and said we're not giving anything back but this constant crap about how they keep giving is tiresome .

Also being a sports fan i want a level playing field for all teams . I don't understand where the enjoyment would be if a few teams could simply buy contenders every year . It would almost be like entering a Midget team in a Atom tourny .

As far a being a Leaf fan goes , are we such a pitiful organization that we can't compete unless the odds are totally stacked in our favour ?

Obviously, the players are giving up their paycheques right now.

If one wants to pretend this CBA is completely isolated from previous situations, no the players are not giving up anything because we can pretend nothing existed before.

If we don't consider history, then we can pretend no teams are losing money because we are starting at square one.

You can't say this is square one for the players but there is history for losing money.

Either you consider history or you don't.

If you consider history you have to accept the players are offering up concessions from the previous CBA.

If I were the players I'd offer up no make whole money, but UFA at 5 years, with 6 year maximum for a new team and 8 years for same team, and a 10 year CBA, with an opt out at 8.

So players give up the make whole money but become UFA at half the length of the CBA.

As for whether the Leafs can compete under a cap system? There is no evidence the current management is capable of running a winning team in Toronto under a cap system.

 

[Suntouchable13]

If you think about it, both sides are ruining the game of hockey not just the NHL. Hockey is a sport that can not afford to have its absolute top league to be shut down twice in less than 10 years. What other sport has its top league shut down twice in less than 10 years? The game is seriously being damaged because of this lockout. The impact is bigger than just the league itself. It makes me really irritated. If they don't get anything done and save the season it's going to be a real disservice to the game. They only see $$$$$$, they don't see anything else.

 

[anderson3133]

Perhaps they don't understand all the consequences of wanting to see Larry Tanenbaum pad his personal bank account at their expense. Forbes had Leafs making $80-90 mil in profit last year and NHLPA going to 50% HRR and a 12% salary cut of Leaf players would make that nearly $100 mil in clear profits for MLSE not invested back into the team of our money.

I agree every Leaf fan that wants the best for his team and winning results on the ice wants MLSE to have the greatest financial advantage as the richest team to SPEND and not SAVE more of our money on players.

We should want more advantages not less in this next CBA and so the longer the NHLPA holds out the less givebacks that need to happen which only benefits Leaf Nation. Higher Cap ceilings, greater players free agency, longer and front loaded contracts all go to serve Leaf Nation better as it separates the have from the have nots financially.

Perhaps respectfully, we need Leaf Nation fans supporting Ownership to explain how it benefits our Leafs by restricting spending even more, in hopes it will make the Leafs more successful on the ice?.

When did "EBITDA" become "profit"?

 

[hotpaws]

Obviously, the players are giving up their paycheques right now.

If one wants to pretend this CBA is completely isolated from previous situations, no the players are not giving up anything because we can pretend nothing existed before.

If we don't consider history, then we can pretend no teams are losing money because we are starting at square one.

You can't say this is square one for the players but there is history for losing money.

Either you consider history or you don't.

If you consider history you have to accept the players are offering up concessions from the previous CBA.

If I were the players I'd offer up no make whole money, but UFA at 5 years, with 6 year maximum for a new team and 8 years for same team, and a 10 year CBA, with an opt out at 8.

So players give up the make whole money but become UFA at half the length of the CBA.

As for whether the Leafs can compete under a cap system? There is no evidence the current management is capable of running a winning team in Toronto under a cap system.

I didn't say the players havn't given up concessions but i do question them saying they keep giving up more and more concessions .

Really what have they given . They say they've agreed to an even spit but with the make whole it doesn't get to a 50/50 split until maybe the 4th or 5th year and that's if what we hear is correct . During the last lockout i thought the sides were close until i heard the actual details of both proposals , is the pa still holding out for a min dollar figure like they were or have they changed their stance .

Contract term limits and varience are only a problem because the PA is looking to keep open loopholes to raise the players share of HRR .

Your propossal is fine but Fehrs main goal is try to include as many loopholes as possible . The rest of his blabbering is just a smoke screen to try to deflect attention away from his main objective .

If the current Leaf mang team can't compete under the present system then it's easier to bring in a new crew than it is to try to sell the rest of the owners on a non cap CBA .

 

[p.l.f.]

who would u draft 1st?
stamkos ? quick ?