Confirmed with Link: Lockout continues Part V - Hockey cancelled till January 14th

[Disgruntled Observer*]

Paying the players less won't make the product better, and we already know having the lowest ticket prices doesn't make people care about hockey.

It isn't about how much the players make it is about being in markets that just don't like or care about hockey.

I don't think that people in some cities are born with some sort of anti hockey gene.
I think any new sport will have trouble growing when the expansion teams face such dramatic financial disadvantages. When you barely make the playoffs in 10 years, most places (toronto excluded) will start to lose interest... let alone acquire new fans.

Putting in a cap gave the poor teams a fighting chance to win/acquire new fans. But they're still losing millions, so I support lowering the cap ceiling and basement. What's the only negative? The millionaire players can only afford 3 mansions, as opposed to 4.
It's a no brainer.

 

[Disgruntled Observer*]

highest paid athlete in CANADA is not even a hockey player.
disgrace, that hockey is our sport, and how hard , how much it cost, and how many years it takes to become a hockey player.

and its the hockey players that are greedy, the canadian players.
watch the canadian juniors play, and call them all greedy players , worth nothing, dont cheer for them.
there going to work there ass off, they would die to win a cup for canada, but there greedy over paid stupid non educated athletes

Saying "Even though I'm ridiculously well paid and wealthy, I'm not taking a pay cut without a fight... and I don't care that half of my employers are losing millions per year" is quite possibly the greediest thing I have ever heard of.
It's almost a comic book super villain level of greed.

 

[Disgruntled Observer*]

owners got there cba 7 years ago, cap. i guess it did not work, they must be stupid.
players are paid what the oners offer them, no gun to there head.
move some teams. get rid of bettman, no one wants to deal with him, starting with the tv networks and bigger and more sponsers

If it makes you feel better to call the owners stupid, then go for it. I don't care.
All I know is that the previous cba didn't work. Half of the owners are still losing money, and the players salaries almost doubled in 7 years.

Clearly they need to alter the cba. The problem is that the players are too greedy to take a pay cut.

Either that, or contract the league (too bad the players won't allow that either...)

 

[ULF_55]

If it makes you feel better to call the owners stupid, then go for it. I don't care.
All I know is that the previous cba didn't work. Half of the owners are still losing money, and the players salaries almost doubled in 7 years.

Clearly they need to alter the cba. The problem is that the players are too greedy to take a pay cut.

Either that, or contract the league (too bad the players won't allow that either...)

Good money after bad.

Smart people know when a project has failed.

 

[Disgruntled Observer*]

Good money after bad.

Smart people know when a project has failed.

Ok. Convince the nhlpa to allow contraction then.
Good luck with that... you'll probably find that they are way too stubborn and greedy.

 

[ULF_55]

Ok. Convince the nhlpa to allow contraction then.
Good luck with that... you'll probably find that they are way too stubborn and greedy.

NHLPA does not decide where to put the franchises.

 

[Disgruntled Observer*]

NHLPA does not decide where to put the franchises.

And if the team succeeds, the sure love the new jobs and increased revenue.
But if the teams have some growing pains, they refuse to take a hit... even when half of their employers are losing millions.

Some "partnership"...

 

[MapleLeafGardens*]

If it makes you feel better to call the owners stupid, then go for it. I don't care.
All I know is that the previous cba didn't work. Half of the owners are still losing money, and the players salaries almost doubled in 7 years.

Clearly they need to alter the cba. The problem is that the players are too greedy to take a pay cut.

Either that, or contract the league (too bad the players won't allow that either...)

This ^^ Disgruntled Observer your posts are bang on!!

Unfortunately the PA supporters here are still not getting it because they continue to post BS, even though approx 70% ain't backing the greedy PA whiners and have continually pointed out to them logical reasons why the owners have the stance they feel they need to have going forward.

But these are Leafs fans.

 

[anderson3133]

And if the team succeeds, the sure love the new jobs and increased revenue.
But if the teams have some growing pains, they refuse to take a hit... even when half of their employers are losing millions.

Some "partnership"...

They've agreed to come down to 50% (a 12% reduction in salary) upon agreement of a better redistribution program.

Seems like they're the only ones making an effort in working together as a partnership.

 

[Mess]

Good money after bad.

Smart people know when a project has failed.

Remember we're Leaf fans, so unlike many other fan bases we can recognize failure when its staring us in the face, as no team has had less success under a salary cap system then our own.

Hopefully the next CBA is more "LEAF FRIENDLY" then the last one was, and we again can experience success again.

Parity has been Leafs enemy, and parity is the #1 desire of Bettman as the CBA main goal.

 

[TmlHockeyFan]

Voting ends today for dissolving the union right?

 

[asdf]

They've agreed to come down to 50% (a 12% reduction in salary) upon agreement of a better redistribution program.

Seems like they're the only ones making an effort in working together as a partnership.

They haven't really come down to 50% though.

First, their initial proposals were a fixed amount instead of a percentage. Now more recently they want things tacked on, like a cap on escrow, make whole, and buyouts that are outside of the 50%.

 

[Hurt]

They've agreed to come down to 50% (a 12% reduction in salary) upon agreement of a better redistribution program.

Seems like they're the only ones making an effort in working together as a partnership.

Delinked just does not work. All the benefit, none of the risk.

 

[hockeyfanz*]

If it makes you feel better to call the owners stupid, then go for it. I don't care.
All I know is that the previous cba didn't work. Half of the owners are still losing money, and the players salaries almost doubled in 7 years.

Clearly they need to alter the cba. The problem is that the players are too greedy to take a pay cut.

Either that, or contract the league (too bad the players won't allow that either...)

This is certainly part of the solution. I fully advocate contraction and have been from the beginning.....Makes no sense to keep so many freaking teams on life support...PULL THE PLUG.

Who gives a damn what the NHLPA thinks. They have no say in the matter. Too many useless plugs in the NHL anyway.. The league is seriously watered down.. Look no further than the Blue and White since the last lockout....so many useless hockey players.

 

[MapleLeafGardens*]

This is certainly part of the solution. I fully advocate contraction and have been from the beginning.....Makes no sense to keep so many freaking teams on life support...PULL THE PLUG.

Who gives a damn what the NHLPA thinks. They have no say in the matter. Too many useless plugs in the NHL anyway.. The league is seriously watered down.. Look no further than the Blue and White since the last lockout....so many useless hockey players.

This ^ the majority of fans want contraction.

The quality of the on ice product that the fans are paying for and watching on TV goes up substantially if the NHL would drop to 20 teams.

But is there even a remote possibility that this will ever happen? If so which teams have owners that are going to just walk away from their multi million dollar investments?

 

[rumman]

If it makes you feel better to call the owners stupid, then go for it. I don't care.
All I know is that the previous cba didn't work. Half of the owners are still losing money, and the players salaries almost doubled in 7 years.

Clearly they need to alter the cba. The problem is that the players are too greedy to take a pay cut.

Either that, or contract the league (too bad the players won't allow that either...)

the Owners are stupid, why do they pay players so much?????? I can't see any reason a player should settle for less than a owner is willing to pay them, I know if my employer was willing to pay me double what I was worth, I wouldn't refuse. Owners are the problem, even with a Cap they continually shoot themselves in the foot, take the Wild for example, their owner has complained about player salaries for years, so whats he do? goes out and give Suter and Pariese to deals that could cripple the team in years to come?????????

 

[MapleLeafGardens*]

A stronger more financially stable 20 team NHL with a significantly improved on ice product...

Toronto Maple Leafs
Boston Bruins
Buffalo Sabres (losing money but could return to profits)
Calgary Flames
Chicago Blackhawks
Detroit Red Wings
Edmonton Oilers
Los Angeles Kings
Minnesota North Stars (change back to orig 67 name please)
Montreal Canadiens
New York Rangers
Philadelphia Flyers
Pittsburgh Penguins
Ottawa Senators
St Louis Blues (strong orig 67 team that could return to profitability)
Vancouver Canucks
Washington Capitals
Winnipeg Jets
Quebec Nordiques
20. Tough decision who to put in for the 20th team Forbes list of NHL teams operating income...

http://www.forbes.com/nhl-valuations/list/#page:1_sort:6_direction:asc_search:

 

[Mess]

the Owners are stupid, why do they pay players so much?????? I can't see any reason a player should settle for less than a owner is willing to pay them, I know if my employer was willing to pay me double what I was worth, I wouldn't refuse. Owners are the problem, even with a Cap they continually shoot themselves in the foot, take the Wild for example, their owner has complained about player salaries for years, so whats he do? goes out and give Suter and Parise to deals that could cripple the team in years to come?????????

This why we have a Owners lockout trying to create a new CBA.. The Owners need an idiot proof CBA to protect them from themselves and this dispute has little to do with actual player salaries.

Things that are prolonging this dispute are a result of Owners demanding things like contract terms and yearly variance, which are player related items on how the NHLPA divvy up their HRR % portion.. It has nothing to do with Owner profitability if a player has a 5 year or 10 year deal, as it doesn't effect the bottom line.

However because an Owner and his hired GM can't control themselves from handing out deals and then whining/complaining about what they had full control over and just offered is the reason fans are deprived of NHL hockey..

 

[egd27]

the Owners are stupid, why do they pay players so much?????? I can't see any reason a player should settle for less than a owner is willing to pay them, I know if my employer was willing to pay me double what I was worth, I wouldn't refuse. Owners are the problem, even with a Cap they continually shoot themselves in the foot, take the Wild for example, their owner has complained about player salaries for years, so whats he do? goes out and give Suter and Pariese to deals that could cripple the team in years to come?????????

You're not suggesting the owners should take some accountability for the problems the NHL has are you?

hmmm...I was beginning to think it was al the greedy players' fault.

 

[Epictetus]

And all 3 of those leagues have considerably larger revenues than the NHL does. If you want to find a $20M equivalent for other leagues, try looking for $50-60M+ contracts among the wealthy leagues.

And the NHL also has a better resolution when it comes to saving money on prospects/younger players in terms of control. Right now, the issue is that the star players of today's game, are underpaid with respect to how they would be perceived on markets in other sports. As you've stated, this is because of revenues being larger in other leagues. But part of that reason is due to how the salary cap is structured. It significantly helps your middle-level NHL players, and does not focus on your top-level NHL players.

Just to add, increasing revenues probably should not be a goal if you plan to have a lockout this often.

Within the league, certainly, but they have been for the past 2 or so decades. Compared to other, more profitable leagues? Not a chance.

The gap between a star player's salary and a middle player's salary has widely decreased since the new CBA.

What about the rest of the teams that are barely breaking even? Flames, Pens, Flyers, Bruins, etc. Given the last CBA's framework, there are only 5-6 "economically viable" hockey markets.

This is because of the lack of a sound economic structure which all teams can live with. If the league wants to go with a 30 team-model, then they need to figure out a sound business model. They currently do not have one.

Minimum salaries are pretty similar across the leagues. Around $500k. Maximum salaries are influenced by what the individual leagues can afford. It only makes sense.

The problem is that owners give out crazy, overpaid contracts to middle-level NHL players and then when it is time to give out those very same contracts to the star players, they begin to cry about it. This is problematic because of the salary cap.

Having almost $50 million extra to spend on your players is of course a MUCH bigger advantage than an extra $16 million (difference between cap ceiling and basement).

You do realize that teams who could spend to the cap ceiling, do not already do so and hover around the basement? These very teams could spend more, and be near where the cap space allows them, but they do not. Other teams already get a financial advantage with a salary cap.

Eliminating the salary cap will not be as drastic as you think.

Rodriguez plays for a team that has twice as many home games and can hold almost three times as many people with a television contract that is... uh... approximately 5 billion times higher (give or take? just an estimate) than the typical hockey team

Of COURSE Rodriguez will make more money than people like Crosby.

If you think my point was to suggest that Crosby should get paid like Alex Rodriguez, then you've missed my point.

I am just describing the discrepancies between the top-level players of different leagues, in which it's clear the top level NHL players are underpaid. The resolution would be to pay top-level players at a fair "market price".

 

[bobermay]

I really don't care if there is a season or not at this point, but I heard this on the radio earlier today... found it entertaining...haha

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tjQLCuM8i-g

 

[MapleLeafGardens*]

How many of you PA supporters, if you had the bucks, would pay lets say...around 200 million dollars for an NHL team knowing your 200 million dollars was bringing in returns of a paltry 10 million per annum or even losing 10-20 million per annum? Would you make a business investment like that? Look at Forbes financial figures in the link i posted above. How many teams do you think are actually making decent returns on their investments? It's a joke! lol

Ding ding ding ring any bells? At least a third of the hacks in the NHL should count their lucky blessings they even have a job making the big money they are. For many of the NHL's owners it's a mystery why they even bother owning an NHL team. The returns on investment is beyond laughable they straight up suck. The PA doesn't get the big picture of the NHL's financial situation colllectively they don't even care about anything other than their own greedy interests.

 

[charliolemieux]

Just saw on the news NHL cancelled season until January 14.

Sigh...

 

[ULF_55]

How many of you PA supporters, if you had the bucks, would pay lets say...around 200 million dollars for an NHL team knowing your 200 million dollars was bringing in returns of a paltry 10 million per annum or even losing 10-20 million per annum? Would you make a business investment like that? Look at Forbes financial figures in the link i posted above. How many teams do you think are actually making decent returns on their investments? It's a joke! lol

Ding ding ding ring any bells? At least a third of the hacks in the NHL should count their lucky blessings they even have a job making the big money they are. For many of the NHL's owners it's a mystery why they even bother owning an NHL team. The returns on investment is beyond laughable they straight up suck. The PA doesn't get the big picture of the NHL's financial situation colllectively they don't even care about anything other than their own greedy interests.

Is the correct question, if you had $300 million would you spend it on a NHL team in a location with no fans?

 

[Disgruntled Observer*]

They've agreed to come down to 50% (a 12% reduction in salary) upon agreement of a better redistribution program.

Seems like they're the only ones making an effort in working together as a partnership.

It still took them a few months of a lockout to agree to 50/50 with linkage.
Like I said... they won't make any sacrifices without a fight. Selfishness beyond words. All while the rich owners willingly share 100's of millions of dollars with the poor teams.

I'll agree that at this point I'm angry at both sides for not coming to an agreement. But I'm mostly angry at the ridiculously selfish players who won't even begin to really negotiate until after they've been locked out for months.