OT: LOCAL COVID19 - PART I... Seriously, local only

[Pierre from Orleans]

Asians are told "we are going to track you and you gotta go to a hotel for a few days" and they comply because they know that that is how you deal with epidemics.

Are you completely ignoring the vast differences of human rights between Asian countries and North America?

Not complying in Asia has different consequences than it does in North America. Your fallacy of them complying simply due to knowing how to "deal with it" is quite narrow minded.

 

[JD1]

CTV News: U.S. study finds tiny number of vaccine 'breakthrough' COVID-19 cases.
U.S. study finds tiny number of vaccine 'breakthrough' COVID-19 cases

 

[Beech]

Asians make up 39% of the population in Hawaii and account for 50% of the deaths.. I get you are trying to connect dots but I would want to present a more complete picture going down this path

you can do a 10 minute search on any site that has covid data.

I am guessing, the lions share of all people are probably accessing worldinfometer.

Your jaw will drop at the numbers. Asian nations (Asiatics) have been very low and have been very low since day one. Now some other nations have been low. These tend to follow one of 2 conditions. 1) they have tested in incredible amounts. I mean well above 1 million tests per million residents. And beyond testing very high, they have imposed draconian measures. In Monaco fr example, they went a year without allowing people so much as to venture outside. Cyclist who live there (tour de France guys) were being fined for going out on bike rides. In other nations, strict curfews. and 2) these are poor nations, chaotic and I trust their reporting about as far as I can throw them.

and regardless of which of the two groups, the numbers were still "highish".

Asiatic nations..low testing. In some instances less than 100,000 per million. So 1/10 - 1/20 less testing. Infection rates per million at 1/5-1/10 most nations and death rates that are 1/5-1/20 less.

I ask, how? This has been the case from day one.

South Korea:
51 million people
population density: 425 people per Km squared...28th in the world (all told roughly 210 nations)...so pretty dense

if you look at the numbers for nations in the 45 million to 65 million population. Dismiss the Tanzania's, Uganda, etc. take a look

now see against none chaotic 3rd world nations

I ask, how?????

Is there something we need to look at.

 

[DaveMatthew]

BC unveiled their re-opening plan. It's significantly more optimistic than what we have here.

As of today:
• Masks required
• Personal outdoor gatherings with 10 people, organized outdoor gatherings with 50 people (weddings, funerals, etc)
• Indoor gatherings with 5 people
• Indoor dining (with capacity limits)
• Low intensity indoor exercise and recreation (with capacity limits)

On June 15th:
• Masks required
• Personal outdoor gatherings with 50 people
• Indoor organized gatherings with 50 people
• High intensity indoor exercise and recreation

On July 1st:
• Masks recommended
• No capacity limits on indoor or outdoor personal gatherings
• Fairs, festivals, concerts allowed
• All indoor exercise, no capacity limits

On September 7th:
• Masks a personal choice
• Back to normal

Meanwhile, Ontario seems to be the only jurisdiction that is simultaneously telling everyone to get vaccinated while playing down the benefits of the vaccine. "4th wave!"

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

you can do a 10 minute search on any site that has covid data.

I am guessing, the lions share of all people are probably accessing worldinfometer.

Your jaw will drop at the numbers. Asian nations (Asiatics) have been very low and have been very low since day one. Now some other nations have been low. These tend to follow one of 2 conditions. 1) they have tested in incredible amounts. I mean well above 1 million tests per million residents. And beyond testing very high, they have imposed draconian measures. In Monaco fr example, they went a year without allowing people so much as to venture outside. Cyclist who live there (tour de France guys) were being fined for going out on bike rides. In other nations, strict curfews. and 2) these are poor nations, chaotic and I trust their reporting about as far as I can throw them.

and regardless of which of the two groups, the numbers were still "highish".

Asiatic nations..low testing. In some instances less than 100,000 per million. So 1/10 - 1/20 less testing. Infection rates per million at 1/5-1/10 most nations and death rates that are 1/5-1/20 less.

I ask, how? This has been the case from day one.

South Korea:
51 million people
population density: 425 people per Km squared...28th in the world (all told roughly 210 nations)...so pretty dense

if you look at the numbers for nations in the 45 million to 65 million population. Dismiss the Tanzania's, Uganda, etc. take a look
View attachment 438972
now see against none chaotic 3rd world nations
View attachment 438973

I ask, how?????

Is there something we need to look at.

My immediate guess for South Korea would be strict lockdowns early. Also early large numbers being tested and effective contact tracing led towards less cases.
I expect Japan would have followed a similar path.. Singapore as well. From what I heard coming from China the lockdown was very strict.. All of these countries also have big cultural differences from the west.. The US had protests against lockdowns that were encouraged by the Whitehouse... Completely different politics , and discipline between the citizens.. So I would tend towards getting the numbers down early and keeping them down through leadership vs a conspiracy theory that the virus is baked to be more harmful to non-asians.

 

[Beech]

They took draconian measures. Asian nations took draconian measures and Western nations generally didn't; those that did made out better. And I'm not arguing in favour of draconian measures, but the correlation makes sense, it doesn't seem like much of a mystery.

They took draconian measures. Asian nations took draconian measures and Western nations generally didn't; those that did made out better. And I'm not arguing in favour of draconian measures, but the correlation makes sense, it doesn't seem like much of a mystery.

the poster child fro non Asiatic nations is Australia. An island. A population density of 3/km^2. ~ 82% live in urban locals
South Korea. Population density 527. ~ 82% live in Urban locals. So way larger cities.

Australia: 30,000 CASES...700,000 TESTS/MILLION 1000 DEATHS..25 million pop
SK: 136,000 cases ...187,000 tests/million...2000 deaths...population 51 million

since SK tests at 1/4 Australia..would you not expect the asymptomatic spread to be 3-5 times higher?????

So Australia has anywhere between 3-5 x silent spread. Meaning true infections are ~ 150,000-200,000 cases. 1000 dead ~ .67-.5% (this is slightly worse than Canada which is at ~ 0.45-0.5%.

Korea, should be at around 9-12 spread..thus their 136,000 case, should be 1.2-1.6 million cases. They have 2000 dead or 0.16%-.125% . Meaning the Koreans are either made of concrete, or something is wrong somewhere??????

either Korea's spread is not 9-12. in which case, f'ng impressive, since they test at 1/4 of Australia, 1/5 of Canada 1/10 of the USA and 1/12 of the UK. Or this thing is not spreading aggressively among them. If the 2000 deaths are accurate, then the spread must be 2-3 max. In which case, either the testing was so f'ng brilliant that it caught everyone, or it is not spreading aggressively, or it is not killing aggressively. As I said, something is wrong somewhere?????

Have you any idea of what the poor f'ng Brits WENT THROUGH. Test like heck, die like heck. They could not get a hold of this thing for shit. Now look at the numbers for Japan..unreal. If Japan had been the UK, there would be 2,000,000 dead. UK: 2.6 million tests/million. Japan: 110,000/million.

 

[Beech]

My immediate guess for South Korea would be strict lockdowns early. Also early large numbers being tested and effective contact tracing led towards less cases.
I expect Japan would have followed a similar path.. Singapore as well. From what I heard coming from China the lockdown was very strict.. All of these countries also have big cultural differences from the west.. The US had protests against lockdowns that were encouraged by the Whitehouse... Completely different politics , and discipline between the citizens.. So I would tend towards getting the numbers down early and keeping them down through leadership vs a conspiracy theory that the virus is baked to be more harmful to non-asians.

virtually no Non-Asiatic nation whose numbers you trust, even remotely matched Asiatic nations...read #156

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

virtually no Non-Asiatic nation whose numbers you trust, even remotely matched Asiatic nations...read #156

The numbers alone do not tell the whole story. How have Asians fared outside of Asia are they more or less susceptible? How did their governments react? Provide more information rather than saying .. Numbers low here .. How ? Conspiracy?

 

[DrEasy]

CTV News: U.S. study finds tiny number of vaccine 'breakthrough' COVID-19 cases.
U.S. study finds tiny number of vaccine 'breakthrough' COVID-19 cases

If I understand this correctly, this is great news: it could mean the vaccine protects much better (after the second dose) than what the studies initially predicted. We didn't expect 100%, we expected 95% in the case of the best vaccines, and we're getting something like 99.9%. I'm probably simplifying a lot (for example, maybe vaccinated people aren't going to places where they could be exposed, and maybe they are also benefiting to some amount of herd immunity and that in itself protects them to some extent), but that's just my first impression.

 

[DrEasy]

BC unveiled their re-opening plan. It's significantly more optimistic than what we have here.

As of today:
• Masks required
• Personal outdoor gatherings with 10 people, organized outdoor gatherings with 50 people (weddings, funerals, etc)
• Indoor gatherings with 5 people
• Indoor dining (with capacity limits)
• Low intensity indoor exercise and recreation (with capacity limits)

On June 15th:
• Masks required
• Personal outdoor gatherings with 50 people
• Indoor organized gatherings with 50 people
• High intensity indoor exercise and recreation

On July 1st:
• Masks recommended
• No capacity limits on indoor or outdoor personal gatherings
• Fairs, festivals, concerts allowed
• All indoor exercise, no capacity limits

On September 7th:
• Masks a personal choice
• Back to normal

Meanwhile, Ontario seems to be the only jurisdiction that is simultaneously telling everyone to get vaccinated while playing down the benefits of the vaccine. "4th wave!"

BC never stopped outdoor dining and patios even throughout this latest wave, if my "contacts on the ground" are telling me the truth.

 

[DaveMatthew]

BC never stopped outdoor dining and patios even throughout this latest wave, if my "contacts on the ground" are telling me the truth.

Patios have, indeed, been open this entire time, and indoor fitness has been allowed, with restrictions, for most of the pandemic.

And yet, BC has fared better and is set to reopen sooner. Who would've thunk!

 

[Beech]

The numbers alone do not tell the whole story. How have Asians fared outside of Asia are they more or less susceptible? How did their governments react? Provide more information rather than saying .. Numbers low here .. How ? Conspiracy?

I hope so..watching CNN this morning. Seeing Dr. Gupta, seeing the interview with the former CDC director and then knowing the numbers as I do...it left me puzzled.

God help us if this is a lab issue and if it has cynical, biological/bacteriological weaponry, behind it!!!

Forgive this, it is going to come off way more sinister than I mean it. But I wish Asiatic nations had numbers that were close to and "explainable" relative to the rest of the world. The Anglo Saxon world plus the roman world has been slaughtered. Europe may be closer to 2,000,000 total deaths if you consider the unreliability of a good 10-12 nations and those that died after hospitalization.

In North America (Mexico to Canada), we are probably at the same 2,000,000 people.

So ~ 1.5 billion people...4 million dead.
2 billion Asiatics..100,000 dead

OUCH.

 

[Nac Mac Feegle]

What point am I trying to prove here? I am posting a link with some information in a thread about Covid in Ottawa.

Why are you getting all upset about it.

If anything you've helped prove a point that a lot people don't give a shit about these sort of issues because its deemed an convenience rather than an actual issue from your perspective.

So....why not post a few articles relating to the mental health of those who lost loved ones in the pandemic? Why not post articles focusing on the mental health of front line workers?

When some people only post stuff that is a subtle "we need to open everything and go back to normal, for MENTAL HEALLLLLTHHHH!!11!!!!1!", it's easy to see the motivation behind the postings.

 

[DaveMatthew]

I hope so..watching CNN this morning. Seeing Dr. Gupta, seeing the interview with the former CDC director and then knowing the numbers as I do...it left me puzzled.

God help us if this is a lab issue and if it has cynical, biological/bacteriological weaponry, behind it!!!

Forgive this, it is going to come off way more sinister than I mean it. But I wish Asiatic nations had numbers that were close to and "explainable" relative to the rest of the world. The Anglo Saxon world plus the roman world has been slaughtered. Europe may be closer to 2,000,000 total deaths if you consider the unreliability of a good 10-12 nations and those that died after hospitalization.

In North America (Mexico to Canada), we are probably at the same 2,000,000 people.

So ~ 1.5 billion people...4 million dead.
2 billion Asiatics..100,000 dead

OUCH.

There are numerous factors that contribute. One, that can be very sensitive to talk about, is a massive risk-factor for any respiratory virus: obesity (which is influenced by a whole host of economic circumstances). Look at deaths in the US:

• Indigenous: 256/100,000
• Black: 180/100,000
• White: 150/100,000
• Asian: 96/100,000

Compare that to obesity rates:

• Indigenous: 37.9%
• Black: 40.7%
• White: 30.4%
• Asian: 12.7%

Look at overall obesity rate by country:

• United States: 36.2%
• Canada: 29.4%
• UK: 27.8%
• China: 6.2%
• Japan: 4.3%

 

[Pierre from Orleans]

So....why not post a few articles relating to the mental health of those who lost loved ones in the pandemic? Why not post articles focusing on the mental health of front line workers?

Because everyone's been posting and talking about front line workers, infection rates and death?

I've stated way back then in the earlier Covid threads that I was shedding light on things that barely get talked about (search for it and you'll find it) that I think are important and guess what? They were barely talked about back then. Only up until now are they getting more limelight with the amount of data, articles and media attention that's been coming forward.

Somehow what I discuss and present is so outlandish that it's met with responses like the ones from the poster I quoted and yourself even though it's coming from the same sources that have been used here to discuss everything else Covid related which are seemingly OK in your eyes.

 

[YouGotAStuGoing]

So....why not post a few articles relating to the mental health of those who lost loved ones in the pandemic? Why not post articles focusing on the mental health of front line workers?

When some people only post stuff that is a subtle "we need to open everything and go back to normal, for MENTAL HEALLLLLTHHHH!!11!!!!1!", it's easy to see the motivation behind the postings.

To this point, I'd also add that as someone who's struggled with depression well before COVID hit, I kind of resent mental health being weaponized against the lockdowns when those who were in a position to speak up and advocate for mental health did sweet f*** all until it became of interest to them.

 

[Pierre from Orleans]

To this point, I'd also add that as someone who's struggled with depression well before COVID hit, I kind of resent mental health being weaponized against the lockdowns when those who were in a position to speak up and advocate for mental health did sweet f*** all until it became of interest to them.

Lol became interested? Are you reading what you're typing?

Perhaps advocaters of it now are experiencing it first hand hence them speaking out?

Stop trying to make things so black and white.

 

[Sensmileletsgo]

Covid is such a complex thing to deal with. On one hand you impose restrictions that cause economic hardships, wealth inequality, and negatively impacts mental health. On the other hand you don’t impose restrictions and the hospital system gets overrun by covid and people die. Our governments have tried to find the balance which unfortunately has led to rolling lockdowns. Thanks goodness the vaccines are here. Hopefully as a collective we learn from this and get better at managing public health.

 

[YouGotAStuGoing]

Lol became interested? Are you reading what you're typing?

Perhaps advocaters of it now are experiencing it first hand hence them speaking out?

Stop trying to make things so black and white.

I'm gonna stick with my wording, thanks. An issue shouldn't have to touch someone for it to matter to them.

 

[Pierre from Orleans]

I'm gonna stick with my wording, thanks. An issue shouldn't have to touch someone for it to matter to them.

I never said otherwise.

We're talking about speaking out about an issue that mattered to someone.

 

[Nac Mac Feegle]

To this point, I'd also add that as someone who's struggled with depression well before COVID hit, I kind of resent mental health being weaponized against the lockdowns when those who were in a position to speak up and advocate for mental health did sweet f*** all until it became of interest to them.

Yep. It reminds me of the folks screaming (against) immigration and refugees, and using Canada's homeless (and homeless vets) as their poster child why we need to shut the borders. But those are also the same folks who spent years demanding small government and rejecting any money to social programs and mental health services.

Suddenly "mental health" has become a great catch phrase for certain people who want to 'go golfing' but don't want to reveal their true motivation.

 

[Pierre from Orleans]

Suddenly "mental health" has become a great catch phrase for certain people who want to 'go golfing' but don't want to reveal their true motivation.

And this is a common cop out for people who aren't affected by the topic at hand.

 

[DaveMatthew]

To this point, I'd also add that as someone who's struggled with depression well before COVID hit, I kind of resent mental health being weaponized against the lockdowns when those who were in a position to speak up and advocate for mental health did sweet f*** all until it became of interest to them.

It certainly goes both ways.

There's a whole group of people who, pre-2020, were re-tweeting every "Bell Let's Talk" post but are now telling others to essentially suck it up because there are others who are worse off.

All of a sudden, it's only a real problem if it can be diagnosed with a cotton swab.

 

[DaveMatthew]

Yep. It reminds me of the folks screaming (against) immigration and refugees, and using Canada's homeless (and homeless vets) as their poster child why we need to shut the borders. But those are also the same folks who spent years demanding small government and rejecting any money to social programs and mental health services.

Suddenly "mental health" has become a great catch phrase for certain people who want to 'go golfing' but don't want to reveal their true motivation.

Sure. There are some people like that.

But there are also tons of people who are suddenly happy to minimize another person's struggle when they used to re-tweet every Bell Let's Talk post they could get their hands on.

"Oh you didn't get COVID? Then it's not a real problem. Suck it up, you should be grateful."

 

[JD1]

If I understand this correctly, this is great news: it could mean the vaccine protects much better (after the second dose) than what the studies initially predicted. We didn't expect 100%, we expected 95% in the case of the best vaccines, and we're getting something like 99.9%. I'm probably simplifying a lot (for example, maybe vaccinated people aren't going to places where they could be exposed, and maybe they are also benefiting to some amount of herd immunity and that in itself protects them to some extent), but that's just my first impression.

Good lord. You're a doctor man. This should be easy for you


Yes it is very good news. I think the efficacy data is higher than the trials showed and it's showing up in Canada with numbers dropping substantially in sync with vaccination rates