Post-Game Talk: Literally shooting yourself in the foot

People keep bringing up this "split second decision" like it justifies the own goal. Im sorry, but if the split second decision is to put the puck in my own net, or do literally anything else, I'm picking the latter every time. Let it go through, even if they score, well atleast it wasn't a f***ing own goal.
Split second isn't about justifying its about explaining what real players are facing in real time in the sport of hockey when they see their net being completely vacated. I've seen players slide right into the net in that situation many times, bringing the puck with them, into their own goal. I've seen this own goal deflection several times. Whats rarer is to see it in an ENTIRELY empty net.

Quite simply humans are not equipped to make the right play in a split second every time. Drai is fairly instinctively trying to swipe a puck off the goal line and it went wrong. Similarly the most common own goal in Football is identical, a footballer trying to kick the ball off the line and it goes in instead. You feel like a dope but its part of the game you signed up for and especially if you happen to be a player with the compete level that you will come all the way back on that play because your goalie is an imbecile.
 
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Maybe it’s just me but that puck wasn’t going wide btw. It was going just inside the far post. Smith beat Skinner wide and shot it well before the goal line.
 
No, the reason he was in that position is because the whole team gave up with 15 seconds left. This has happened multiple times when pushing McDrai to get a win late, rather than playing it safe, playing til the clock hits 0.0 and getting to OT. Nobody on the ice in those last 15 seconds is without some blame.

Draisaitl had one of his worst games of his career, before the own goal even. He is a bigger catalyst to our teams success than Skinner. He's paid to never have these games, Skinner is paid to hopefully give us a fighting chance and he kept us in it til the end. People like to bitch that the team needs to play "perfect" to win, well ya, when you nerf your goaltending by spending so little and choose to instead invest in forwards and D, that is to be expected. Problem is, this team is playing nowhere close to perfect and frankly it's the big guys who are failing to pull their weight for long stretches of play despite getting some points. Dumb turnovers by Leon, horrid line changes, refusal for Connor to shoot for 90% of the game, those are bigger reasons we lost the game than any 1 guy on the last play.

Skinner sucks and even the players know it as some here like to say? Well why aren't they playing like they know they have to be better in front of him? Are they weak mentally too? like some accuse Skinner of, and just admitting defeat because their preferred tender isn't in net? If so, doesn't sound like a team ready for a cup imo.

I'm no Skinner defender, I wanted an upgrade at the deadline. But it's really annoying seeing everything blamed on him when the team shits the bed at glorious opportunities.
No mention of McD anywhere here being -2 and as bad and ask yourself what McD is even doing on the GA.
Drai as a center is in the shithole position of trying to desperately prevent a goal on his goal line while the goalie has completely vacated cage. Talk to any footballer, and football is conceptually similar to Hockey is the least favorite situation ever, for any defender is being left alone on the goal line with a shot coming. Its no mans land.

We should be thankful Drai is the kind of player that will even come back to goal line to try to save day instead of burying him.

So many takes in this are dense. The shot actually was taken above the goal line From freeze frames I'm guessing it was as much as 12inches from goal line. the puck had a conceivable path to net. Only the shooter knows. For a defender its impossible in that instant second to know whether the puck is going wide or whether its a pass to Karlsson. In anycase the puck being there represents extreme danger.
 
Maybe it’s just me but that puck wasn’t going wide btw. It was going just inside the far post. Smith beat Skinner wide and shot it well before the goal line.
I think it was going wide because Smith changed his blade angle expecting Skinner would keep pushing lateral with him. That said there is no way for Drai to react to knowing if it’s on net or not. He had less than 200ms between the time the puck was released and the time it hit his stick.
 
No mention of McD anywhere here being -2 and as bad and ask yourself what McD is even doing on the GA.
Drai as a center is in the shithole position of trying to desperately prevent a goal on his goal line while the goalie has completely vacated cage. Talk to any footballer, and football is conceptually similar to Hockey is the least favorite situation ever, for any defender is being left alone on the goal line with a shot coming. Its no mans land.

We should be thankful Drai is the kind of player that will even come back to goal line to try to save day instead of burying him.

So many takes in this are dense. The shot actually was taken above the goal line From freeze frames I'm guessing it was as much as 12inches from goal line. the puck had a conceivable path to net. Only the shooter knows. For a defender its impossible in that instant second to know whether the puck is going wide or whether its a pass to Karlsson. In anycase the puck being there represents extreme danger.
Mcdavid defensively has been disappointing this playoff. Both him and Drai needs to be better.
 
Take hindsight and emotion out. What is the proper reaction to a shooter in the slot?

Skinner said he thought Smith didn’t have time to shoot - so he overchallenged. Smith went wide and Skinner hit the panic button while already in his knees. You’re only looking at a fraction of the play and missing 7/8ths of it while ignoring his miscalculation of time.
 
No mention of McD anywhere here being -2 and as bad and ask yourself what McD is even doing on the GA.
Drai as a center is in the shithole position of trying to desperately prevent a goal on his goal line while the goalie has completely vacated cage. Talk to any footballer, and football is conceptually similar to Hockey is the least favorite situation ever, for any defender is being left alone on the goal line with a shot coming. Its no mans land.

We should be thankful Drai is the kind of player that will even come back to goal line to try to save day instead of burying him.

So many takes in this are dense. The shot actually was taken above the goal line From freeze frames I'm guessing it was as much as 12inches from goal line. the puck had a conceivable path to net. Only the shooter knows. For a defender its impossible in that instant second to know whether the puck is going wide or whether its a pass to Karlsson. In anycase the puck being there represents extreme danger.
I mean, I could point out McDavids -2, but he was actually -1 so Id look like a bit of an idiot. I said everyone on the ice was at fault there, and your gotcha is to say I didn't mention Mcdavid specifically in the final goal? I also alluded to him being trash for stretches, along with Drai. Overall, Drai looked worse last night. Can you admit any fault in 29's game last night? I think not, because you find your guys to hate and love and never abandon those feelings. You old guys do that a lot.

Idk why you are on about the last goal, I didn't place blame for that on anyone in that post. My issue is with the big fwds for long stretches of the game up until that point, and even going into last game. 29 and 97 both.
 
Delia is coming up. I wonder if they talked to Rodrigue and figure he’s maybe a little nervous or inexperienced for such a big game. Should have gave the kid more regular season games but whatever.

I say just put Delia in. He’s got more experience. Being a little older than Rodrigue I bet it’s less nerves and more “I’ve been waiting for years to prove myself”.

We won’t win this series if Skinner starts the rest of the games. He’s done. I’d start Delia and maybe even have Rodrigue on the bench as backup over Skinner.

Bowman you f***ed up so hard. Like did he think because the fans are screaming for a goalie you just do the opposite because fans are dumb? I’m assuming Stan didn’t watch any Oilers hockey for the past few years.. the guy has a whole team of staff, all supposedly professionals, millions and millions invested in these guys. HOW THE HELL MAN.

WE SHOULD BE 3-0 WHAT IS THIS NIGHTMARE
 
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Maybe it’s just me but that puck wasn’t going wide btw. It was going just inside the far post. Smith beat Skinner wide and shot it well before the goal line.

Screenshot 2025-05-11 162202.png


redline is direction of travel, puck is currently located in the red circle.

Craziest part about this actually actually now that I've watched it a few dozen times, Draisaitl could've absolutely let this go. Look at Karlsson, he's not getting jack shit on that pass.

Screenshot 2025-05-11 162534.png


Not to overlook Skinner here either. So in this picture, Stuart Skinner has begun moving after the fake shot from Smith. One problem, in the frame before, Skinner doesn't move quick enough to get his feet and body set to the original shot that ended up being faked. The result is what you see below.

Firstly, he's out of position. The yellow line here matches the goalie's centre of mass with the centre of the goal. Ideally, you'd like for the puck or at least the shooter's eyes to be in line with the yellow. Skinner's body is about 2 feet behind Smith and 4 feet behind the puck. What this causes is when Skinner has to butterfly slide he's not square to the net, so instead of taking the ideal (blue) route, he pushes along the red line which exposes the crease. This is all literally caused by Skinner not getting set for the original opportunity.

Screenshot 2025-05-11 162849.png
 
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Agree on most points, that last one though he gambled on a strong challenge and lost when there was no reason to. He just had to maintain position and track and close up the short side. There would be no real shot for the shooter at that point.
I dunno… watching the replay and judging from the corpses in the center of the slot, he would have had a pretty clear look at the net with angles at goal on both sides of Skinner. Have a look again and see if you agree (based on where he stepped around Nurse and McD. .

I’m sure all three of us (you, me and Skinner) can all agree that would be less than ideal. We know Skinners not a point blank big save guy… he plays a preventative game (I know one when I see one) to mask his weaknesses and that’s what that play was.

For his skill set and the time in the game that was the right call, get big, track the guy and make him run out of space… keep in mind retracting to the post wasn’t even an option. Skinner was still sliding forward when he went into butterfly… at that point you attack, retreat wasn’t really an option. Closer distance to Roy himself than the post. And anyway… that would have had Roy coming straight at him, only a bit shooters-left of the central slot.
 
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I mean, I could point out McDavids -2, but he was actually -1 so Id look like a bit of an idiot. I said everyone on the ice was at fault there, and your gotcha is to say I didn't mention Mcdavid specifically in the final goal? I also alluded to him being trash for stretches, along with Drai. Overall, Drai looked worse last night. Can you admit any fault in 29's game last night? I think not, because you find your guys to hate and love and never abandon those feelings. You old guys do that a lot.

Idk why you are on about the last goal, I didn't place blame for that on anyone in that post. My issue is with the big fwds for long stretches of the game up until that point, and even going into last game. 29 and 97 both.
Your issue is McD and Drai the best players on this club and the only reason to watch while absolving Skinner who is a clown. You tie this in with something blame old people.

This is the apparent quality of poster you are.

I stated Drai didn't have a good game several times in the thread. You must be wrong on that about us old guys as well.

My own take, and its reasonable, is that McDrai are both somewhat fatigued and probably battling some injuries. They get nailed lots and especially in playoffs. Yeah they can't be perfect robots all the time. Sorry.
 
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Not that I agree with Skinner but with goalies a lot is their mental state. I don't think a good attitude for him would be a "well I tried my best..." or to be down on himself. I even will agree with him in that he had some good saves leading up to McDavid tieing the game.

He's probably in net again next game so I'd prefer he take an attitude of trying to build off of what went right last time and then cleaning up what went wrong as best he can. I don't see how taking blame for the loss will make things better
But isn’t this the issue? The guy doesn’t think there’s anything to clean up. At least that hasn’t been evident in any interview I’ve ever seen him give.

Issues with talent have never been personal with me until Stu came along. I can tolerate and even respect a guy who sucks at hockey and will at least admit he has areas he needs to work on. Stu never does that. How telling is it that he refers to the rest of the team as “them”, when he says he gave them a chance to win? That’s not a misspoken word or an issue of semantics, that’s a guy who is clearly laying the blame on his teammates while taking no issue with his own play. When has McD or Drai or Pickard or anyone else ever not spoken of the team as a collective?

He’s untouchable and beyond criticism, both in his own mind and in the eyes of the local press, and it drives people up the wall. A positive attitude is important for sure, but you also have to be honest with yourself. That’s what missing here. He’ll never improve because he’s too arrogant to see any of his own weaknesses.
 
View attachment 1033882

redline is direction of travel, puck is currently located in the red circle.

Craziest part about this actually actually now that I've watched it a few dozen times, Draisaitl could've absolutely let this go. Look at Karlsson, he's not getting jack shit on that pass.

View attachment 1033884

Not to overlook Skinner here either. So in this picture, Stuart Skinner has begun moving after the fake shot from Smith. One problem, in the frame before, Skinner doesn't move quick enough to get his feet and body set to the original shot that ended up being faked. The result is what you see below.

Firstly, he's out of position. The yellow line here matches the goalie's centre of mass with the centre of the goal. Ideally, you'd like for the puck or at least the shooter's eyes to be in line with the yellow. Skinner's body is about 2 feet behind Smith and 4 feet behind the puck. What this causes is when Skinner has to butterfly slide he's not square to the net, so instead of taking the ideal (blue) route, he pushes along the red line which exposes the crease. This is all literally caused by Skinner not getting set for the original opportunity.

View attachment 1033889
On first frame the point is in real time, in real game action one cannot know that the puck ISN'T going in or that its not possible (it was) in brief glance it would be impossible for Drai to know that the puck is trajectory wide. Reilly released the shot around 12 inches above goal line. Drais own cognitive bias would be knowing that he could score from there. Drai does instinctively what any player would. Tries to swipe the puck away.

The puck could also bounce in off either Karlsson or Skinner, or Drai himself. Nobody knows in that moment how much time is left on the clock. Human cognition would maybe narrow it down to within a few seconds. Certainly not fractions of seconds.

nice breakdown overall though.
 
But isn’t this the issue? The guy doesn’t think there’s anything to clean up. At least that hasn’t been evident in any interview I’ve ever seen him give.

Issues with talent have never been personal with me until Stu came along. I can tolerate and even respect a guy who sucks at hockey and will at least admit he has areas he needs to work on. Stu never does that. How telling is it that he refers to the rest of the team as “them”, when he says he gave them a chance to win? That’s not a misspoken word or an issue of semantics, that’s a guy who is clearly laying the blame on his teammates while taking no issue with his own play. When has McD or Drai or Pickard or anyone else ever not spoken of the team as a collective?

He’s untouchable and beyond criticism, both in his own mind and in the eyes of the local press, and it drives people up the wall. A positive attitude is important for sure, but you also have to be honest with yourself. That’s what missing here. He’ll never improve because he’s too arrogant to see any of his own weaknesses.
Great post! Skinner isn't good at math either. ;)
 
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Drai tipped it in

Skinner cut off the angle and forced a Hail Mary crossing pass that was clearly going wide but for drai’s brain fart
The angle wasn’t great in the first place. You don’t need to come out 20 feet.

He turned nothing into something. Abandoning the net leads to chaos and all sorts of nasty possibilities. Like I said even if Drai didn’t tip that in… I’ll take a routine shot over a puck going through the crease with a wide empty net any day.

The Drai tip was brutal as well.
 
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On first frame the point is in real time, in real game action one cannot know that the puck ISN'T going in or that its not possible (it was) in brief glance it would be impossible for Drai to know that the puck is trajectory wide. Reilly released the shot around 12 inches above goal line. Drais own cognitive bias would be knowing that he could score from there. Drai does instinctively what any player would. Tries to swipe the puck away.

The puck could also bounce in off either Karlsson or Skinner, or Drai himself. Nobody knows in that moment how much time is left on the clock. Human cognition would maybe narrow it down to within a few seconds. Certainly not fractions of seconds.

nice breakdown overall though.

Agreed, it's probably too much to expect Draisaitl to not make an instinctual reaction to the play.

I guess from my standpoint, even if Skinner played that perfectly, I don't exactly love a forward (or defence) intercepting a puck with a blade turned perpendicular to the net within 4 or 6 feet of the goal mouth; but any other play would've not been remotely instinctual to a forward.

I actually joked with my dad last night that we probably go to OT if Nurse is there instead of Drai because he'd probably just dive into the post sealing off that side lmao.
 
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You know what Skinner reminds me of? We had this guy at work. And stuff always seemed to go wrong around him. The guy literally was a bad omen. He was driving to work and hit a cow somehow on the road. He would get flat tires. Uncles cousins moms boyfriend needed some help and was stuck so he was going to be late. Sometimes whatever he touched would fail catosprahically and other times he would come in and be the hero. He was a high event employee and you were always on edge with counting on him for anything. He was a good guy. Just not a guy that inspired confidence in the basic premise of showing up every day and putting in a good performance. Skinner is the goalie version of that guy. Everything goes wrong around him and some people just chalk it up to bad luck but it isn't. It happens too much. There are hundreds if not thousands of different factors that come into play for every goal that happens, and they are converging at these moments where these unfortunate things are happening around Skinner. That last goal to me is a perfect example of this.

Do McDavid and Nurse completely sell out on the shot if they have Pickard behind them? They literally were acting like it was an empty net behind them, I don't think they do that with Picard behind them. The other thing I didn't like was Skinner out in no mans land. I get what he was doing, I understand he thought he just needed to run out a fraction of a second more. But it left net exposed for a pass across. Based on what I know about Pickard it is much more predictable. In the alternate universe where Picard was in net he simply moves laterally and that pass attempt across is simply a standard save where the goalies is in position. This is the swiss chesse effect at work. When all the holes line up events happen. And with Skinner we need to realize it is more than just "bad luck".
 
Agreed, it's probably too much to expect Draisaitl to not make an instinctual reaction to the play.

I guess from my standpoint, even if Skinner played that perfectly, I don't exactly love a forward (or defence) intercepting a puck with a blade turned perpendicular to the net within 4 or 6 feet of the goal mouth; but any other play would've not been remotely instinctual to a forward.

I actually joked with my dad last night that we probably go to OT if Nurse is there instead of Drai because he'd probably just dive into the post sealing off that side lmao.
Everything conspired on Drai there. The curvature of his blade, the fact that he could've scored on that shot from that angle and that being his cognition. Feel sorry for the guy. Own goals like that can be awful. I've mentioned football several times in discussion. You could be the best defender on the planet but if the ball is coming at you on the line and your goalie has vacated its the single worst hell. Its the play all defenders, no matter how good they are have nightmares of in Football. Seen so many top defenders kick ball right in their own net. I've done it too.
 
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