Post-Game Talk: Literally shooting yourself in the foot

[McFlyingV]

People won’t like it but Spector is right. Skinner cutting down the angle on Smith actually worked. We’re not even talking about if it Draisaitl doesn’t put it in the net. I don’t really blame Stu for that one.

The worst goal of the night was the first one Skinner let in. A nothing shot from the boards that led to a tap in because he completely lost the rebound. It sucked the energy out of the building and completely changed the game.

Hopefully Pickard will be ready soon.

Why do you need to cut down the angle on a guy who gets the puck at the high circle with 2 guys in front of him and no option to walk down main street? Thats absolutely crazy logic, and that cutting down the angle combined with Stu biting on the shot fake combined with Stu's terrible lateral mobility resulted in him being 10 feet out of his net. Sure, he took the shot option away, but he a completely unnecessary wide open net for a bank play.

A goalie with Skinner's mobility and lack of scrambling skill should rarely if ever be challenging a shooter outside of his crease to begin with. That's a strategy that only really athletic goalies should utilize. Skinner should be playing positionally sound because that's all he is a big positional goalie. But for some reason he seems to think he is a Vasi/Sorokin/Swayman who can come 5 feet outside of his crease and make a push back to his far post.

 

[OilerTyler]

No, Spector is not right. He is (as usual) gatekeeping by picking the opposite of what the 'unwashed masses' are saying so as to assert his 'expertise' based on the journalism certificate he got from NAIT 40 years ago. He's the ultimate, 'well, acktually' guy. Its not a coincidence that he references a quote he got from an ex-NHLer to attempt to prove his point.

Trying to argue that 'Skinner forced him to shoot it wide and it would've worked' is some real next level shit. I challenge anyone to find me a goalie coach who would advocate for, 'taking yourself completely out of position and out of the net so you can force an opponent to put the puck straight through the crease you just abandoned'. I mean, the people saying this realize that Smith has teammates on the ice, right? It could've just as easily been one of them batting the puck in as it was Draisaitl. But no, Mr. .700 is playing 4D chess on that play and we're all just too stupid to see it.

IN REALITY, Stu took the bait 100% (as he always does because he's so relieved when he actually knows where the puck is for a change), took himself madly out of position and leaves Draisaitl to have go back and swing his stick madly to try and cover for his idiot teammate who, at that very moment in time, was inexplicably on his knees, sliding towards the corner.

I didn't say what Stu did is good fundamentals. I said it worked. Those are different things.

 

[MessierThanThou]

Imagine being so eager to blame our best player all season for a loss, just to absolve one of our worst players for one bad goal when he already allowed two bad goals in the game and was unquestionably the biggest reason why the team lost last night.

Imagine being that clueless of a human being and that shitty and disloyal of a fan. We win this game with Pickard. We literally are incapable of winning a single playoff game with Stu.

 

[Porkleaker]

Fact is, team plays like shit in front of Skinner because he can't make a big save when needed. If Picks isn't skating/practicing today then we're cooked!

 

[5 Mins 4 Ftg]

This is true.

However, it’s the first two goals where we should be laying blame. Those were entirely on Skinner.

Goal 1: he pushes across completely off balance, gives up a bad rebound and of course is unable to save the 2nd shot… just bad mechanics and athleticism. Perfect example of: “he’s just not capable at this level”. This was also a routine belly-save for Pickard.

Goal 2: he’s down covering near post, stick side (which is an advantage). From there you have two choices when the guy cuts across: 1) stretch the far side leg, 2) push with near side leg… stretching is always faster but should be saved for last resort, given time you ALWAYS push first, stretch if necessary, especially when you are stick side since the only downside to pushing is you have to lift your pushing knee… but he’s got his stick there, so that’s low risk.

Of course Stu stretches, a bad decision, in part because he’s just not that mobile or athletic. That opens the 5-hole… goal is on him. Pickard would have had this routinely.

3) the give and go with Karlsson… I mean Pickard probably saves that 7/10 times. It doesn’t look like much, but gaps open when you have to push center and then come back where you came from. Stu saves those maybe 5/10 times, he’s got a faulty 7-hole. This is a goal that happens on everyone to varying degree… you like it back, but not one to crucify about.

4) I actually disagree that the last goal is entirely on him. In fact I think all of the other three were worse… this just happened to be last. He pushed out well, he needed to cut that angle. He’s still moving out when the shot-fake comes, because he’d been on the goal line when the puck was behind. McD and Nurse both bite hard on the fake shot… so does Skinner. A relatively minor mistake which is magnified because he’s still moving out, so his butterfly slides him further out. Now he has no choice but to challenge that shooter and force him to run out of options. I actually like that play… and it almost worked… the puck was sliding wide which is good goaltending when you are in desperation mode (which he was). Pickard almost certainly plays this one the same way, he’s way more of a gambler than Skinner and he’s smaller, so he’d be way out cutting that angle too… maybe he doesn’t go down on the fake shot, maybe he does…. Sometimes he would, sometimes he wouldn’t. Perhaps he’d have been even closer to Roy and actually stop the shot/pass attempt.

Agree on most points, that last one though he gambled on a strong challenge and lost when there was no reason to. He just had to maintain position and track and close up the short side. There would be no real shot for the shooter at that point.

 

[Fishy McScales]

Pond hockey? Did you even watch the game? The Knights had like 2 scoring chances and scored on both in their first two goals. At that point the OIlers were back to the mindset that they need 5 goals minimum because Stu is in net.

Further the Oilers as a team are pretty good at board battles. But they're playing a team that is topnotch at that aspect of the game. Vegas don't even survive as a team if they are not great at NZ and board battles. Its the DNA of that team. Imagine them actually being good at that aspect. Its the playoffs, its the division final, the opponent will have certain aspects that they are good at. Doesn't mean the Oilers are shitty at board battles we practically own the puck in a lot of games. Just not last night.

They're up 2-0 dipsy-doodling at the offensive blue line, Bouchard flying the zone, Draisaitl turning it over. They've been playing right into Vegas' strong odd-man rush game since game 2.

And yeah, they suck along the boards, standing still waving their sticks around constantly. It was the exact same against the Kings, and it was driving me crazy before the playoffs too.

 

[Bumblebee Man]

I'm not saying that Stu had a good game overall, he definitely didn't and I'm hoping Pickard can come back in. But anyone who thinks turning this shooting opportunity into a shot that literally had 0% of going in if not for an own goal is a bad play is thinking emotionally instead of logically. I'm more concerned about how we turned a 2 on 4 into this kind of defensive fire drill.

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Oh 100% Stu sucks. A couple goals tonite he needs to make those.

However, stepping up on the shot was the right play.

On that goal Vegas was allowed to walk in on him on both posts.

Emotionally people hate Skinner...logically they should be hating Nurse for that game first and foremost

 

[5 Mins 4 Ftg]

Pretty sure the person you posted was being sarcastic.

AH ok. Hard to tell sarcasm on here most of the time without the little yellow guy emoji. Sorry @crowfish carry on lol

 

[Mr Positive]

If our only chance to win this series is to have the advantage in net, then I don't see much chance for this team to win the cup. I even have my doubts that Pickard can maintain that play he did, or that perhaps Vegas or the next teams will find a weakness to exploit.

If there is anything good to come out of this game it's that we need to tighten up the play in front of the goalie, no matter who is in net. The fact is that we were outplayed last night and the previous game too, and Pickard had to steal one. I know Ekholm is out, but Pietrangelo and McNabb are playing injured and not 100%, and so is Dorofeyev. Stone didn't even play much of last game. Heck, even with Ekholm out, our D outside of him is better compared to last year's playoffs. Him returning at 100% even doesn't fix the major issues

If last night's loss has any value that's what it is. It exposed a growing weakness in the team that was smoothed over with an advantage in net. That advantage could have been unsustainable

 

[Stoneman89]

Agree with this. Knoblauch missed the need to have fresh legs and frankly defensive minded players to finish out the clock. That final sequence was a comedy of errors by basically every Oiler on the ice. Complacency and poor decisions abound.

Stack Line skated backwards again most of this game. Draisaitl carried this team all season but this was likely his worst playoff game as an Oiler. Seemed slow skating, not moving enough with the blueline strip that went the other way for a goal, part of a disaster long ice change that led to a goal against, and hard back check on a very unfortunate end of game own goal. Arvidsson Podzolzen embarrassing blueline gaffe that led to a goal. Bad goaltending behind terrible team mistakes is a recipe for a L. Vegas has been very good in the neutral zone taking away speed and turning over pucks.

Have to reset and drive this series to 3-1 on Monday. Tough loss tonight on largely self-induced mistakes and a goaltender who can't make timely stops to clean up mistakes.

That instance of putting arguably our 2 worst defensive players on the ice with 40 seconds to play after they've been gassed, is becoming a disturbing pattern. You've worked hard to get it to OT. Trust your fresh defensive minded group to get us to OT and live to fight another day. I like our chances in OT with a fresh McDrai. Not sure what is going through Knobs head on that.

 

[Ritchie Valens]

I have a feeling that Skinner isn't going anywhere despite a dogshit season and even worse playoffs.

Far too much media gaslighting and him being trotted out to make lame excuses...a goalie that is done with the team wouldn't be getting any time with the media, IMO

I honestly think the only way Skinner is bought out or traded is for McDavid to be an a-hole and tell Katz, Mutt & Jeff he’s not signing an extension unless you upgrade the goaltending and if they aren’t willing to do that, here’s the list of teams I’ll accept a trade to.

Make these f***ers sweat.

 

[Drivesaitl]

No, Spector is not right. He is (as usual) gatekeeping by picking the opposite of what the 'unwashed masses' are saying so as to assert his 'expertise' based on the journalism certificate he got from NAIT 40 years ago. He's the ultimate, 'well, acktually' guy. Its not a coincidence that he references a quote he got from an ex-NHLer to attempt to prove his point.

Trying to argue that 'Skinner forced him to shoot it wide and it would've worked' is some real next level shit. I challenge anyone to find me a goalie coach who would advocate for, 'taking yourself completely out of position and out of the net so you can force an opponent to put the puck straight through the crease you just abandoned'. I mean, the people saying this realize that Smith has teammates on the ice, right? It could've just as easily been one of them batting the puck in as it was Draisaitl. But no, Mr. .700 is playing 4D chess on that play and we're all just too stupid to see it.

IN REALITY, Stu took the bait 100% (as he always does because he's so relieved when he actually knows where the puck is for a change), took himself madly out of position and leaves Draisaitl to have go back and swing his stick madly to try and cover for his idiot teammate who, at that very moment in time, was inexplicably on his knees, sliding towards the corner.

Fantastic post. Would love it 5X. Spector is the "well actually" guy.

"Expertise based on Journalism Certificate he got from Nait 40yrs ago" lol

This frames perfectly the dilemma that media find themselves in today. That they chose a fairly stupid career that was clearly going to be replaced by first person availability to all news thus rendering them obsolete. So they do the next thing trying to claim omniscient narrative, perspective, and pov and that they are unparalleled resource of information. When really any given day theres 50 posters here who I'd rather see analysis from.

Finally picture the kind of dopes that specifically go into sports journalism. Not studying journalism to report on anything meaningful or expansive. "I just want the sports beat and I like hot dogs"

Yeah, its the idiots that gravitate to sporting coverage.

 

[Stoneman89]

If our only chance to win this series is to have the advantage in net, then I don't see much chance for this team to win the cup. I even have my doubts that Pickard can maintain that play he did, or that perhaps Vegas or the next teams will find a weakness to exploit.

If there is anything good to come out of this game it's that we need to tighten up the play in front of the goalie, no matter who is in net. The fact is that we were outplayed last night and the previous game too, and Pickard had to steal one. I know Ekholm is out, but Pietrangelo and McNabb are playing injured and not 100%, and so is Dorofeyev. Stone didn't even play much of last game. Heck, even with Ekholm out, our D outside of him is better compared to last year's playoffs. Him returning at 100% even doesn't fix the major issues

If last night's loss has any value that's what it is. It exposed a growing weakness in the team that was smoothed over with an advantage in net. That advantage could have been unsustainable

I think they win no problem last night with Picks in net. We played completely different after Skinner shit the bed on the first goal.

 

[Echodek]

Why was drai playing goalie mark?

If Skinner stays in his net then Smith has no choice but to either A. Skate it around the net and run the clock out or B. Shoot it directly at the goalie. There would be no wide open net to shoot at.

 

[Pip]

If our only chance to win this series is to have the advantage in net, then I don't see much chance for this team to win the cup. I even have my doubts that Pickard can maintain that play he did, or that perhaps Vegas or the next teams will find a weakness to exploit.

If there is anything good to come out of this game it's that we need to tighten up the play in front of the goalie, no matter who is in net. The fact is that we were outplayed last night and the previous game too, and Pickard had to steal one. I know Ekholm is out, but Pietrangelo and McNabb are playing injured and not 100%, and so is Dorofeyev. Stone didn't even play much of last game. Heck, even with Ekholm out, our D outside of him is better compared to last year's playoffs. Him returning at 100% even doesn't fix the major issues

If last night's loss has any value that's what it is. It exposed a growing weakness in the team that was smoothed over with an advantage in net. That advantage could have been unsustainable

I wouldn’t be this down on the team. The last 2 games ended in a coin flip without a good effort from the Oilers. I’d also argue they outplayed Vegas last night. Turning points were Draisaitl hitting the post when they were up 2-0 then shortly after Skinner gifted a goal which changed the momentum of the game. They are in a great position to win game 4 and take a stranglehold on the series.

 

[CantHaveTkachev]

I ain't as mad as last night...we weren't gonna win in OT anyways with the way Skinner and the team were playing
just loose defensively from everyone, combined with bad goaltending
this team is prone is "devastating" losses seemingly every playoff run (see: Game 1 against LA) and bounce back to play better

Oilers are still up 2-1 and if Pickard comes back, we will still win in 5 or 6 games

 

[MessierThanThou]

Oh 100% Stu sucks. A couple goals tonite he needs to make those.

However, stepping up on the shot was the right play.

On that goal Vegas was allowed to walk in on him on both posts.

Emotionally people hate Skinner...logically they should be hating Nurse for that game first and foremost

So the Oilers lose by one goal and Skinner is responsible for two going in, since, in your words, "he needs to make those." Take away one of those goals and it's a tie game. Take away the other goal and...we win. So shouldn't Skinner be held responsible "first and foremost" for the loss?

 

[Drivesaitl]

I didn't say what Stu did is good fundamentals. I said it worked. Those are different things.

Imagine saying what Skinner did worked. Look at the score. look at the goal.

You don't vacate there because even from bad angle the puck can bounce in off Skinner himself, can bounce in off any player behind him including Karlsson who is right there. The puck could have also bounced in off any part of Draisaitl, his skate, leg etc.

The play by Skinner didn't work. Its kind of the whole point of discussing it.

One has to be engaging in some extreme mental gymnastics to now pretend the next morning that the goal never happened and that the play by skinner "worked" haha.

 

[McFlyingV]

If our only chance to win this series is to have the advantage in net, then I don't see much chance for this team to win the cup. I even have my doubts that Pickard can maintain that play he did, or that perhaps Vegas or the next teams will find a weakness to exploit.

If there is anything good to come out of this game it's that we need to tighten up the play in front of the goalie, no matter who is in net. The fact is that we were outplayed last night and the previous game too, and Pickard had to steal one. I know Ekholm is out, but Pietrangelo and McNabb are playing injured and not 100%, and so is Dorofeyev. Stone didn't even play much of last game. Heck, even with Ekholm out, our D outside of him is better compared to last year's playoffs. Him returning at 100% even doesn't fix the major issues

If last night's loss has any value that's what it is. It exposed a growing weakness in the team that was smoothed over with an advantage in net. That advantage could have been unsustainable

People keep saying we were outplayed last night but idk about that. I felt Vegas actually outplayed us in game 2 and had more quality chances. Last night the chances felt pretty even. Drai hit a cross-bar on a wide open net (I think there was another post too, and he missed a wide open net late in the 3rd just before we tied it on a cross ice seam pass from McDavid, hit the side of the net and Hill was no where near getting across), Henrique missed high glove all alone in the slot, McDavid got robbed all alone in the slot by Hill.

I felt like the Oilers struggled for portions of the game to win puck battles and make good passes, but the overall chances sure didn't feel like they favoured Vegas in anyway that game. Felt pretty even tbh.

 

[foshizzle]

Spector's game article blames Draisaitl and praises Skinner for a great game.

Just baffling.

Spector’s first instinct is to blame McDavid and Draisaitl. Always

 

[Mr Positive]

I think they win no problem last night with Picks in net. We played completely different after Skinner shit the bed on the first goal.

I find that argument a cop out too. Skinner has plenty of arguments against him but it's clear scapegoating if we are blaming him for the mistakes of the skaters in front of him too.

I could understand if the problems that led to the loss were that we were too conservative and defensive and that put us on our heels all night. Thats not what happened though. So, the team doesn't have enough faith in their goalie, and that causes Dmen and forwards to pinch for offense on a 2-0 lead, and allow odd man breaks the other way? Nah, the team had poor decision making and just weren't bailed out this time.

Even on that last goal, the blame is split many ways. And yeah, there is blame on Skinner too, but we let Smith walk in there with seconds to go so we could gamble for the winner

 

[MessierII]

That instance of putting arguably our 2 worst defensive players on the ice with 40 seconds to play after they've been gassed, is becoming a disturbing pattern. You've worked hard to get it to OT. Trust your fresh defensive minded group to get us to OT and live to fight another day. I like our chances in OT with a fresh McDrai. Not sure what is going through Knobs head on that.

We’ve lost 3 games in the playoffs and 2 are this exact scenario

 

[Stoneman89]

I'm not saying that Stu had a good game overall, he definitely didn't and I'm hoping Pickard can come back in. But anyone who thinks turning this shooting opportunity into a shot that literally had 0% of going in if not for an own goal is a bad play is thinking emotionally instead of logically. I'm more concerned about how we turned a 2 on 4 into this kind of defensive fire drill.

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It's possible for the other guys out there to have screwed up badly too. But the play by Skinner is otherworldly bizarre and bad, and that's thinking with complete reason today and having watched multiple viewings.

 

[Mr Positive]

People keep saying we were outplayed last night but idk about that. I felt Vegas actually outplayed us in game 2 and had more quality chances. Last night the chances felt pretty even. Drai hit a cross-bar on a wide open net (I think there was another post too, and he missed a wide open net late in the 3rd just before we tied it on a cross ice seam pass from McDavid, hit the side of the net and Hill was no where near getting across), Henrique missed high glove all alone in the slot, McDavid got robbed all alone in the slot by Hill.

I felt like the Oilers struggled for portions of the game to win puck battles and make good passes, but the overall chances sure didn't feel like they favoured Vegas in anyway that game. Felt pretty even tbh.

I do agree that the teams were pretty even last night. I'd even say the same about game 2, and all the easy tap ins we missed flattered Vegas a bit. So out of two roughly even games we had a split, with one goal margins. By any measure, the outcomes we had should be expected. The 2-1 series score matches the play on the ice. It seems to me like the goaltending duel isn't the major reason we lost a game. It's just a shame we can't take advantage of Hill's sub standard play as much, but what happens when we have to face a confident Otteinger or Hellebuyck? So imo this is a chance for our skaters to have the pressure on them too. We had flashes of greatness in game 1 but haven't had the answer to their adjustments since then

 

[foshizzle]

I didn't say what Stu did is good fundamentals. I said it worked. Those are different things.

lol, what??? The puck ended up in a vacated net- that is the definition of it not working. He commits to a shot, fully sells out. Right then Skinner is screwed because he has zero ability to push side to side. Smith just walks around him and it’s in.