Line Combos: Lines post-deadline

[Palgamer87]

This is according to Jeff Rimer's twitter (https://twitter.com/jrimercbj/status/319852208621498368):

Prospal - Anisimov - Gaborik
Umberger - Johansen - Foligno
Calvert - Letestu - Atkinson
Gilles - Dubinsky - MacKenzie

Personally I would like to see Johansen with Gaborik at some point...

 

[CBJWerenski8]

This is according to Jeff Rimer's twitter (https://twitter.com/jrimercbj/status/319852208621498368):

Prospal - Anisimov - Gaborik
Umberger - Johansen - Foligno
Calvert - Letestu - Atkinson
Gilles - Dubinsky - MacKenzie

Personally I would like to see Johansen with Gaborik at some point...

I think we all would but we should really let him play with players he's familiar with to break him in.

 

[major major]

I would change the lines a bit, based on the following observations/thoughts:

1) Prospal doesn't add much to the Gaborik line, and fits well with Letestu.
2) The Foligno-Johan-Umby line had a great run but they've been dormant for too long.
3) Foligno creates a ton of chances, but can't bury hardly any of them, so should be paired with finishers.
4) Umby is bottom six.
5) Johan should play with veterans who can handle the puck well.

Foligno-Anisimov-Gaborik
Calvert-Dubinsky-Atkinson
Prospal-Johansen-Letestu
Umberger-Mackenzie-Boll/Comeau

If a top-six is injured Letestu slides up and Umby takes his spot.

 

[pete goegan]

I would change the lines a bit, based on the following observations/thoughts:

1) Prospal doesn't add much to the Gaborik line, and fits well with Letestu.
2) The Foligno-Johan-Umby line had a great run but they've been dormant for too long.
3) Foligno creates a ton of chances, but can't bury hardly any of them, so should be paired with finishers.
4) Umby is bottom six.
5) Johan should play with veterans who can handle the puck well.

Foligno-Anisimov-Gaborik
Calvert-Dubinsky-Atkinson
Prospal-Johansen-Letestu
Umberger-Mackenzie-Boll/Comeau

If a top-six is injured Letestu slides up and Umby takes his spot.

I like those lines, mm. I was thinking that I'd like to see, if only for a few shifts, a kid line. Something like:

Dubinsky/Anisimov/Gaborik
Calvert/Johansen/Atkinson
Prospal/Letestu/Foligno
Umberger/Mackenzie/Comeau

I've seen recent improvement in Ryan's game and I wonder if centering the two hard-working speedsters might energize his play further? Obviously, they'd be a weak line defensively, but it would be fun to see what they could do together for a bit. Calvert and Cam seem to have a real connection and both work so hard that their center is practically forced to work harder, just to keep up! Calvert is quickly becoming my favorite Jacket - he has many of the fine qualities of DMac, with tons more raw talent!

I honestly doubt that Umby will be moved down to the fourth line, though his play appears to deserve it. I agree, too, that Foligno has every move in the book, except a shot on goal. However Richards shapes things, this certainly is a much better team than I expected and I'm excited for next year (season ticket renewal was done, last week!).

 

[Xoggz22]

It's only been a few games but, to me, clearly Gaborik needs some grit on his line. He's not keen on the forecheck (or backcheck) which comes across as lazy to me. His skill is amazing and you can see from the Sharks game how much respect he gets when he has the puck. Literally stops defenders and they back off when he's in the offensive zone. Put him with a center that can get him the puck and another wing that can forecheck, create havoc and provide some muscle (Dubinsky when healthy?). I'd like to see something along the lines of:

Dubinsky Johansen Gaborik
Foligno Anisimov Atkinson
Calvert Letestu Prospal
Umberger MacKenzie Comeau

Personally, I don't like Umberger that low in the lineup but I have a hard time playing him higher than that if this is our healthy lineup. If Dubinsky continues to be an injury problem I would simply move Umby up to that top line. Give him PP and PK time and slot him in on the other lines for a switch.

 

[GoJackets1]

Its amazing how deep this team looks.

 

[Roadman]

Its amazing how deep this team looks.

Depth = Good

Top end skill = no so much

 

[EspenK]

It's only been a few games but, to me, clearly Gaborik needs some grit on his line. He's not keen on the forecheck (or backcheck) which comes across as lazy to me. His skill is amazing and you can see from the Sharks game how much respect he gets when he has the puck. Literally stops defenders and they back off when he's in the offensive zone. Put him with a center that can get him the puck and another wing that can forecheck, create havoc and provide some muscle (Dubinsky when healthy?). I'd like to see something along the lines of:

Dubinsky Johansen Gaborik
Foligno Anisimov Atkinson
Calvert Letestu Prospal
Umberger MacKenzie Comeau

Personally, I don't like Umberger that low in the lineup but I have a hard time playing him higher than that if this is our healthy lineup. If Dubinsky continues to be an injury problem I would simply move Umby up to that top line. Give him PP and PK time and slot him in on the other lines for a switch.

Personally i'd like 2 guys who are not on this current team on the line with Gaborik. I think we as a group overrate our guys. We have played well emphasizing checking all over the ice and Bob's goal tending. Other than Gabby, I have a hard time seeing any of our guys as first liners on a strong playoff caliber team.

 

[Xoggz22]

Personally i'd like 2 guys who are not on this current team on the line with Gaborik. I think we as a group overrate our guys. We have played well emphasizing checking all over the ice and Bob's goal tending. Other than Gabby, I have a hard time seeing any of our guys as first liners on a strong playoff caliber team.

No doubt but this wasn't a thread for "create your ultimate lineup" I've been preaching the "we need more high end skill" mantra since the season started. Gaborik is a start but I don't want to sacrifice the actual team aspect we appear to have developed with this group either. Personally, I think they have to stick with the plan and continue to add the type of players they want through the draft and let them grow. Being similar to Nashville for the next couple years is OK with me as we integrate more high end talent into the fold.

 

[major major]

This set of stats for our forwards from behindthenet.ca was brought up on another thread, and I wanted to move it here to make a particular point: I think coaches in general are slow to change ice time to reflect changes in performance, and Richards is no different in that respect.

Take note of two stats from the page, Points per 60 minutes, and zone starts. Anisimov gets a lot of difficult zone starts and still easily leads the team in points per 60 minutes of 5 on 5. Yet when you look at ice time, Anisimov only gets about 13 minutes of 5 on 5 per game. That's a minute and a half less than RJU who has half the production rate! I checked the TOI for recent games and RJ's ice time has been cut back a little bit recently, but Arty was still underplayed.

Based on the P/60 numbers Duby, Cam and Letestu should also be playing more. Umby and Johansen should be playing less. Foligno's numbers aren't much better but it looks to me like his linemates are dragging him down.

 

[Viqsi]

This set of stats for our forwards from behindthenet.ca was brought up on another thread, and I wanted to move it here to make a particular point: I think coaches in general are slow to change ice time to reflect changes in performance, and Richards is no different in that respect.

Take note of two stats from the page, Points per 60 minutes, and zone starts. Anisimov gets a lot of difficult zone starts and still easily leads the team in points per 60 minutes of 5 on 5. Yet when you look at ice time, Anisimov only gets about 13 minutes of 5 on 5 per game. That's a minute and a half less than RJU who has half the production rate! I checked the TOI for recent games and RJ's ice time has been cut back a little bit recently, but Arty was still underplayed.

Based on the P/60 numbers Duby, Cam and Letestu should also be playing more. Umby and Johansen should be playing less. Foligno's numbers aren't much better but it looks to me like his linemates are dragging him down.

This of course begs the question of whether or not more ice time actually directly translates to more points, or instead just exhausts folks and screws up their production.

As for Foligno... he's clever by himself, but he doesn't seem to do a good job keeping track of other folks on the ice. I think he's the leading candidate for the position of Unjustified Whipping Boy once Umby relinquishes that title.

 

[blahblah]

As for Foligno... he's clever by himself, but he doesn't seem to do a good job keeping track of other folks on the ice. I think he's the leading candidate for the position of Unjustified Whipping Boy once Umby relinquishes that title.

Unjustified by degree? RJ does deserve some criticism. Most didn't acknowledge he had a productive March, but I'm not sure that negates his overall performance the last couple of seasons.

Do you think he's earned his new contract? That will probably be the deciding factor on if you are being reasonable or just a fanboy(girl).

For the longest time, the RJ line is where players have go to have their production cease to exist. Having said that, I think he does a pretty good job in one of the zones. The reality is we need more from a forward we are paying 4.6 million to. We are on the hook for 18 more million over the next 4 years. Do you think this level of performance is acceptable for that type of obligation?

If Foligno performs consistently like he did in Feb and March, he should have no issue with our fan base.

I'll admit, I was surprised that Howson gave him that contract. I'll admit it didn't bother me too much beyond being a little nervous over term. I'll also admit that to this point I was terribly wrong. This is not the RJ we wanted to extend. If he doesn't get bought out or traded, he better get back in the game. He needs to produce at a 50+ point pace no matter how good he may or may not be in other roles. He's also paid to produce.

 

[Cyclones Rock]

This of course begs the question of whether or not more ice time actually directly translates to more points, or instead just exhausts folks and screws up their production.

As for Foligno... he's clever by himself, but he doesn't seem to do a good job keeping track of other folks on the ice. I think he's the leading candidate for the position of Unjustified Whipping Boy once Umby relinquishes that title.

Yeah, guys like Crosby, Malkin, Kane and all other elite NHLers have been had their production "screwed up" by playing them too much

"Unjustified Whipping Boy" as it refers to Umberger??? Now that's just plain funny. Both haha and strange.

 

[NotWendell]

With Arty out for who knows how long, I suspect our lines will look something like this:

Prospal - Dubinsky - Gaborik
Calvert - Johansen - Atkinson
Umberger - Letestu - Foligno
Comeau - MacKenzie - Boll

 

[Fro]

With Arty out for who knows how long, I suspect our lines will look something like this:

Prospal - Dubinsky - Gaborik
Calvert - Johansen - Atkinson
Umberger - Letestu - Foligno
Comeau - MacKenzie - Boll

switch Joey and Letestu and you ahve it...Richards isn't gonna put joey b/t the kids...i thought all of us had realized that by now

 

[NotWendell]

switch Joey and Letestu and you ahve it...Richards isn't gonna put joey b/t the kids...i thought all of us had realized that by now

Letestu is effective on the second line, but it's a waste to put Joey on the 3rd line.

 

[Double-Shift Lasse]

Letestu is effective on the second line, but it's a waste to put Joey on the 3rd line.

Assigned numbers don't matter. Roles, TOI, matchups, etc. if Joey plays with Nicky and Umby, he's going to get ice time.

Oh and what about swapping Letestu and Dubinsky?

 

[Viqsi]

Unjustified by degree? RJ does deserve some criticism. Most didn't acknowledge he had a productive March, but I'm not sure that negates his overall performance the last couple of seasons.

Do you think he's earned his new contract? That will probably be the deciding factor on if you are being reasonable or just a fanboy(girl).

For the longest time, the RJ line is where players have go to have their production cease to exist. Having said that, I think he does a pretty good job in one of the zones. The reality is we need more from a forward we are paying 4.6 million to. We are on the hook for 18 more million over the next 4 years. Do you think this level of performance is acceptable for that type of obligation?

If Foligno performs consistently like he did in Feb and March, he should have no issue with our fan base.

I'll admit, I was surprised that Howson gave him that contract. I'll admit it didn't bother me too much beyond being a little nervous over term. I'll also admit that to this point I was terribly wrong. This is not the RJ we wanted to extend. If he doesn't get bought out or traded, he better get back in the game. He needs to produce at a 50+ point pace no matter how good he may or may not be in other roles. He's also paid to produce.

I don't deny that he's overpaid and that he's not playing at the level that was expected when he was signed to that deal. However, there's folks here who take that to absurd extremes and get listened to when they do - I can think of at least three guys who repeatedly come across as believing that RJ would be equally worthless here if he was being paid league minimum. Pet names like "Umgarbage", selective "analysis" comparing his low points with other players' high points, outrageously insane statements like "he's the last of the country-clubbers on the roster"... idiocy like that.

Foligno is also being paid rather significantly to produce. He's producing at the same overall rate as Umberger. He's not as badly overpaid as Umby, but around here there simply must be a whipping boy. Always.

The simple truth of the matter is that RJ Umberger is not getting a fair shake around here. He's deserving of criticism, but what he's facing is the standard Eternal Damnation tactic folks take around here when someone or something distantly reminds them of something uncomfortable. He's an "ewww, get it away from me, it's all icky and has bad memories" target.

So you'll have to pardon me if I'm not exactly inclined to moderate my tone in this matter.

 

[Viqsi]

Yeah, guys like Crosby, Malkin, Kane and all other elite NHLers have been had their production "screwed up" by playing them too much

"Unjustified Whipping Boy" as it refers to Umberger??? Now that's just plain funny. Both haha and strange.

Thanks for sharing.

 

[Fro]

the major...and I do mean MAJOR difference b/t Foligno and Umberger on this team is that even though he isn't scoring, I still notice positive things from Foligno when he's on the ice...a solid fore and back check here or there or a nice pass etc...with Umberger, all i notice are when RyJo enters the zone 1 on 4 and Umberger leaves the blue line to line change leaving Joey all by him self...or neutral zone turnovers leading to breaks the other way...I can tell you from watching games that while he's not producing on the score sheet, Foligno is doing FAR MORE each game to affect it in a positive way compared to Umberger...

 

[Double-Shift Lasse]

Coulda sworn we already had a thread about Umberger. Oh well.

Too one-sided among Umby bashers in here. I'd give it a lot more credence if folks would also acknowledge his positive plays on the cycle, carrying the puck, positioning for screens and work along the boards. Is he turning the puck over? Is he not as physically engaged as he needs to be? Yes. And of course he's not scoring like someone paid like he is being paid has to do.

I was thinking over the weekend that he'd be a good match for Mackenzie and Boll on a "fourth" line, as he would help the cycle and perhaps those two would somehow amp up RJ's game. That's just as a player, not considering his contract. Which, of course, is a consideration, but...

NOTE: I realize this might appear as thought I'm calling RJ a fourth-liner. I don't know if I am or not. Right now, I wouldn't mind seeing it. Of course, I'm not sure where Comeau plays... Pretty sure I don't like him with Joey and Nick.

 

[Fro]

better stated than I did DSL...

 

[blahblah]

Coulda sworn we already had a thread about Umberger. Oh well.

haha, I forgot what thread I was even in when I posted. I wouldn't be upset if you moved my post(s).

Where RJ fits in the line combo's, I'm not sure. He had it going some in March, to an acceptable level, but has cooled off again in April.

These nicknames like "Umgarbage" (or whatever it was), however, really needs to stop. It's one thing to create a nick name for players you like, but these are nicknames from dislike or even hate.

 

[Viqsi]

Too one-sided among Umby bashers in here. I'd give it a lot more credence if folks would also acknowledge his positive plays on the cycle, carrying the puck, positioning for screens and work along the boards. Is he turning the puck over? Is he not as physically engaged as he needs to be? Yes. And of course he's not scoring like someone paid like he is being paid has to do.

Acknowledging the constructive, though, would not only have the capacity for nuance as a prerequisite (good luck), it'd also seriously undermine one's confirmation bias - and we sure can't have that!

(then again, given my own propensity for persecution-complex-by-proxy, I may be a tad ill-suited to throwing stones at anyone... )

 

[major major]

the major...and I do mean MAJOR...

What do you want from me?!

Back to seriousness... I see a lot of smart plays by Foligno (though he's slipped in April), but I see Umby do some good things from time to time, especially on the PK.