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Player Discussion Lias Andersson: Part II

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Edge said:
And you know I love Howden, so I'm never terribly upset when he gets a look.

But the above is part of the problem/challenge. Other guys have had their looks and had their chances --- for extended periods of time. In some cases, guys like Howden and Chytil have literally gone months without scoring. But Andersson gets a string of games here, a string of games there. But he never gets that consistent run to really build momentum. And that's something that can't be overlooked. We don't have to search any further than the difference it made with Chytil earlier in the season. He wasn't exactly lighting the world on fire with a multitude of bottom six roles either.
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I think there's some personality management stuff that Quinn is particularly adept at with college age kiddos going on here that we're not familiar with watching an NHL level team.

I heavily suspect Andersson is going to get a lot of burn the last 10 games of the year.
 
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effen said:
I think there's some personality management stuff that Quinn is particularly adept at with college age kiddos going on here that we're not familiar with watching an NHL level team.

I heavily suspect Andersson is going to get a lot of burn the last 10 games of the year.
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Yup, it's the same thing with Buch and with ADA. Quinn is managing the kids well. Let him make his decisions imo.
 
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effen said:
I think there's some personality management stuff that Quinn is particularly adept at with college age kiddos going on here that we're not familiar with watching an NHL level team.

I heavily suspect Andersson is going to get a lot of burn the last 10 games of the year.
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I agree with this in terms of the personality issues. I might use a different word than personality though. I think Quinn has very high standards for his players( I love that about him) and is ready to bench anyone or scratch anyone at any given time! It’s really terrific!

I’m glad some of the Lias questioners are starting to come out of the woodworks. A few days ago I thought I was the only one who saw any issues with his lack of progress this season.

I will say, with the apparent depth the Rangers have at center, and an off-season that will involve further changes, I could easily see Lias getting moved here soon. The question is, what would any team even be willing to give up for the guy? My hunch is no where near a first round pick and probably nothing even in the first 2 rounds. Again, that kind of makes the point that this was a terrible strategic pick if the guys value depreciated this much in two seasons. I get the argument that others taken around him are not much better but it’s just sonclassic Rangers that one of the first times they picked in the top 10 in a decade was in a historically( or shaping up to be) bad draft! With that said, obviously the Rangers won’t move him if the straight up return is a mid round pick. If anything, he could get packaged around the draft in an attempt to move up in the first round. In fact, if possible, I’d actively be looking to make a deal like Lias plus a first rounder plus maybe a second or multiple later round picks to move up into a top 5 selection this year.
 
JHS I think there is practically zero chance Lias gets traded. He's still a magic bean and profiles to have a near 100% chance of being a roster forward on a team in a deep rebuild.

Whatever reasons they liked him 2 years ago at the draft still exist at 20 years old. They could have taken anyone else but they took him. He's looked a lot better eye test wise in this callup than he did the first time. Patience.
 
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The thing that worries me right now about Lias is that he's supposed to be the kind of player that Quinn wants to build his team around. A hard-working player full of character who wants to win at all costs. DQ has shown he has a tremendously long leash for kids provided that they're doing things "the right way" and yet Lias seems to be an afterthought. Where's the disconnect?

Even if the numbers aren't there, you'd expect a kid who was talked about as a possible future captain just a year ago to come in and make more of a statement. He's yet to have the kind of game that says "I belong here" and that's a little bit concerning.
 
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Trxjw said:
The thing that worries me right now about Lias is that he's supposed to be the kind of player that Quinn wants to build his team around. A hard-working player full of character who wants to win at all costs. DQ has shown he has a tremendously long leash for kids provided that they're doing things "the right way" and yet Lias seems to be an afterthought. Where's the disconnect?

Even if the numbers aren't there, you'd expect a kid who was talked about as a possible future captain just a year ago to come in and make more of a statement. He's yet to have the kind of game that says "I belong here" and that's a little bit concerning.
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You know, I’m almost getting a “Jarrko Immonen” vibe about him. Immonen always seemed overwhelmed at the NHL in his brief time as a Ranger. And he had a similar skill set.
 
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jas said:
You know, I’m almost getting a “Jarrko Immonen” vibe about him. Immonen always seemed overwhelmed at the NHL in his brief time as a Ranger. And he had a similar skill set.
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I'm not even sure if I can say he looks overwhelmed. He just looks... unusually bland. Like he sort of just packed it in after he didn't make the team out of camp, which is particularly concerning given how competitive we know he is.
 
jas said:
You know, I’m almost getting a “Jarrko Immonen” vibe about him. Immonen always seemed overwhelmed at the NHL in his brief time as a Ranger. And he had a similar skill set.
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I'm at seeing that personally...regarding the comments by @Trxjw I'd say I think the reason he's benched is what I see.. .He's a terrible board player. If you look at what Quinn wants, he likes the team to setup and cycle as opposed to a fast break game tht av prefers. Neither of which really work for lias' skill set. .. as I've said a ton now. .if you're slow and a bad board player, you can't play in the NHL . Once he gets his board game I could see him getting a regular shift on the 4th line and moving up the lineup. If he doesn't improve his board game, he's gone for sure.
 
He is still young but his physical or lack there of ability is very concerning for a high first round pick.

Kreider, Mika, Skjei, Chytil, DeAngelo - guys who were first round picks, you can see their size, skill and or speed attributes that you just don't see in Lias.
 
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effen said:
JHS I think there is practically zero chance Lias gets traded. He's still a magic bean and profiles to have a near 100% chance of being a roster forward on a team in a deep rebuild.

Whatever reasons they liked him 2 years ago at the draft still exist at 20 years old. They could have taken anyone else but they took him. He's looked a lot better eye test wise in this callup than he did the first time. Patience.
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I’m not so sure about the 0 percent chance thing. If a top 5 team wanted to give you there top five pick for Lias, our first rounder this year and a later round pick( maybe a third or fourth) plus maybe one of the Rangers zillion bottom 6 type forward prospects, I’d make that trade in a second and would never look back. Based on the limited time we all have had to watch Lias play I view his ceiling as maybe a second line probably bottom 6 forward. He may follow a similar line as Brandon Dubinsky in terms of ceiling with offensive skills and that’s not the type of organizational changing talent I’m interested in. I’d be very interested in moving up in this upcoming draft to try and get a truely skilled, quick player who may put this team on a path to domination. Lias won’t dominate anything and I’m comfortable coming to that conclusion already. He may be a serviceable NHL player but likely will only play a depth role.

The issue here is, I don’t think a single top 5 draft team would be willing to take Lias based on his magiacian level disappearing act he’s done this season.
 
Every player develops differently but my worry is nothing ever truly flashes when he is even playing well. Great skater? no. Goalscorer? No. Play making ability? Nope. People always brings up IQ but that seems to pertain more to the defensive end. Its too early to call him a bust or a disappointment. He's young and will get better but how much better? I never know who to realistically compare him too
 
lilphildub said:
Every player develops differently but my worry is nothing ever truly flashes when he is even playing well. Great skater? no. Goalscorer? No. Play making ability? Nope. People always brings up IQ but that seems to pertain more to the defensive end. Its too early to call him a bust or a disappointment. He's young and will get better but how much better? I never know who to realistically compare him too
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Neither did Barzal or Scheifele when they were in the NHL in their D+2 seasons. Hence why they were sent back to juniors
 
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jas said:
You know, I’m almost getting a “Jarrko Immonen” vibe about him. Immonen always seemed overwhelmed at the NHL in his brief time as a Ranger. And he had a similar skill set.
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Anderson, for all that he has done and not done, doesn't appear ovewhelmed to me. And lookd very, very good centering Lemiuex & Buch.
 
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Amazing Kreiderman said:
By that logic Lias has shown flashes of that as well. Remember the game vs NJD where he stole the puck off Hall and scored on a breakaway?
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It was a nice play but he didn't exactly show speed on that play. The other players were going in the other direction and he had a head start. What has Lias really showed he's above average at? I'm hoping he becomes like Stepan. But for whatever he didn't have in skating he made up with his passing & defensive play. I see Lias had some nice runs in Hartford. What were some things he truly excelled at there?
 
@Edge makes a great point that I've also been saying and I've heard other users echo throughout the last two seasons. Showing flashes — especially in comparing Lias and Howden — is a difficult site to judge from.

For one: Lias has played very little (14 of 29 games this season under 10:00mins), with a perpetually rotating cast of mostly AHL players, interrupted by frequent scratches and several demotions. In contrast, Howden has been our 3C basically since game #1, playing on the 2nd pp unit all season, and never getting scratched. Is there a 'Flashes/60' stat kept somewhere? If not, it's difficult to fault Lias for not 'standing out' without really any opportunity to. And the reason to bring up Howden is that out of these two players, only one of them has gone 30+ straight NHL games without a goal, and it's not the one who gets scratched or demoted.

Another thing that continues to be repeated but often ignored is that when talking about 'flashes' or moments that stand out as a basis of evaluation, past perception and expectations become relevant. One is more likely see a 'flash' from someone they don't expect it from — it's in the nature of that word that it's a spontaneous and 'abnormal' moment, a moment of sudden difference. So if Howden has had more flashes, might some of that be due to being largely free from the baggage of being a #7 pick with the franchise (he was the 'secondary' piece in his own trade, Hajek being the 'primary' piece)?

@Amazing Kreiderman brought up Lias's breakaway (which did demonstrate marked improvement in speed — though he's really not slow to begin with). I remember him springing Kreider on a beautiful pass out of the penalty box sometimes earlier in the season; he made a big hit, collected a turnover, and gifted Nieves a goal; his first NHL goal last year was fantastic... there's been 'flashes.'

But the point is, flashes are a strange criteria to condemn such a young player by, especially considering Lias who I feel is constantly complimented for 'not being flashy'...
 
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If you think Andersson will be a Stepan who will quietly score 60 points a year while playing responsible defense, that's fine. Just be aware that many fans do not want that kind of player with a high first round pick.
 
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