Prospect Info: Liam Ohgren LW, 19th Overall, 2022 NHL Draft

[P10p]

And again, Stramel is young. Maybe he turns into something. As early as this season people were shitting on Ohgren saying he looks lost on the ice and weak.

 

[BagHead]

Since people have a blind hatred for Guerin. Gets all the blame, little of the praise.

Part of your job as a manager is to build a team that's successful. So even if you're not doing the day to day work, you have people that are competent that are. So while Guerin MIGHT not have scouted or drafted players directly, he put people around him that are. He might not get direct credit, but he does, or should, get tons of credit if Brackett is making good picks.

To go with the stock broker analogy. Yeah, the stock broker might do all the work, but it's your job to identify a good stock broker because it's easier to find a bad one than a good one.

Exactly what I was trying to say above, thank you. Eloquently put.

The game ended 2-3, they didn't got shutout this time. It was scoreless for 61 minutes into 3rd OT after FBK tied it up 2-2 in the third.
Rögle scored 2 PP goal 2 minutes apart in the second, after stupid penalties.
This is the tying goal, scored by a fourth line grinder who got 4 goals this season.

Färjestad BK

To be clear, I don't like the content, but I appreciate the update.

 

[Spurgeon]

What about trading Talbot for Gus? Or Kahkonen and a 5th for Middleton? No credit there?

The only credit he gets for this one is having a horseshoe up his ass.

Sens reached out to offer Gus for Talbot after Guerin pissed him off.

 

[Wabit]

Yurov: 0.73 ppg

Ohgren: 0.66 ppg

Depending on how you feel about the difference between the KHL and SHL, not a whole lot of difference there. Yurov did it for a much larger number of games, however.

I'm going with Yurov was more impressive this year. The number of games really puts it in his favor.

I wonder what Ohgren would have had for a full season if he wasn't injured. He lost a lot of games and then it took him a bit to get going (knock the rust off, get in game shape, etc.) once he did start playing.

I think the KHL has better top end players than the SHL, but the SHL is lower scoring league overall. So the number kid of even out.

 

[f7ben]

Also Talbot carried LA for a good part of the beginning of this year. They are going to the playoffs. Gus shit all over our year and is a major reason why we aren’t going to the playoffs.

 

[Minnewildsota]

Also Talbot carried LA for a good part of the beginning of this year. They are going to the playoffs. Gus shit all over our year and is a major reason why we aren’t going to the playoffs.

Gus also carried us last year, but that doesn't matter.

 

[AKL]

I'm going with Yurov was more impressive this year. The number of games really puts it in his favor.

I wonder what Ohgren would have had for a full season if he wasn't injured. He lost a lot of games and then it took him a bit to get going (knock the rust off, get in game shape, etc.) once he did start playing.

I think the KHL has better top end players than the SHL, but the SHL is lower scoring league overall. So the number kid of even out.

Was Ohgren's shooting % still 20-25% at the end of the regular season? The small sample size probably helped more than it hurt in terms of how his production looks.

Yurov isn't polished yet, obviously, there are still games where he isn't very noticeable, even if he does find the scoresheet. Still think he has more skill and offensive upside than Ohgren though.

 

[f7ben]

Gus also carried us last year, but that doesn't matter.

For sure , but after his performance this year it’s not the clear cut win it appeared to be. If Gus doesn’t turn it around he likely ends up being an albatross.

 

[Wabit]

I have a tough time with Guerin saying it needs to be Stramel. I could see “we really could use another center to add to the mix” from Guerin and Brackett had Stramel as the best available center at the time. Most here had other guys they liked at center… Edstrom for me. Ritchie for others. Etc etc.

In that sort of situation, both should get some level of blame.

It could sort of be the same thing for Ohgren vs Snuggerud vs Yurov vs Kulich.

Honestly I think Stramel's combine numbers pushed him over the other similar quality centers in GMBG's mind. Call it an overcorrection to the small and weak (not really the correct word, shifty maybe a better word?) Rossi in a lot of ways. Other GMs have been known to get tunnel vision for some trait they want in a pick.

The GM is ultimately the one responsible for every pick, unless you have a Jerry Jones type as the owner. He can delegate it to others, for sure, but it's still his arse on the line at the end of the day.

 

[Sota Popinski]

He didn't draft him? Who did? Brackett may have requested it, even strongly, but in the end it's Guerin's decision to listen to Brackett. Or are you arguing that Brackett is responsible for Stramel? You can't have your cake and eat it.

This is his M.O. A draft pick or trade turned out well? Total luck, he deserves no credit. A draft pick or trade turned out poorly? All Guerin's fault.

 

[Sota Popinski]

Except we know a few things

1) Brackett left Vancouver because he didn't have full autonomy of the scouting department, he got that here
2) Guerin previously stating he was hands off at the draft (prior to 2023)
3) Brackett all but admitting that Stramel was not at the top of their draft list but they took him anyway because of (insert characteristics that Guerin notoriously looks for)

YOU are the part of this board you are laughing at. You and the few others who seem hellbent on giving Guerin way more credit than he deserves because you like him as a person. There's nothing unreasonable about saying Guerin picked Stramel and Brackett picked virtually everyone else because we have quotes from both of those people alluding to exactly that.

The extra funny part is that this conversation stemmed off the fact that you are already assuming that Ohgren is going to be a player because one, frankly, biased fan said he looked good and led his team in time on ice for a game, despite the fact that the team got shut out, and saying Guerin is owed apologies for it. You are the other side of the coin you hate.

Meanwhile, Guerin was named the GM of Team USA and Brackett is still a director of amateur scouting. But I'm sure it's as cut and dried as you laid it out, and Guerin is a moron that's fooled everyone and Brackett is the greatest talent evaluator ever.

 

[Wabit]

Was Ohgren's shooting % still 20-25% at the end of the regular season? The small sample size probably helped more than it hurt in terms of how his production looks.

Yurov isn't polished yet, obviously, there are still games where he isn't very noticeable, even if he does find the scoresheet. Still think he has more skill and offensive upside than Ohgren though.

I don't know? His stats over the last 3 seasons show him as a goal scorer more than a playmaker. so the goal:assist isn't an anomaly this season. I think (I haven't seen much of him so I could be wrong) he gets a lot of dirty, net front areas. If he has finishing ability from there that type of scoring works at every level.

 

[AKL]

I don't know? His stats over the last 3 seasons show him as a goal scorer more than a playmaker. so the goal:assist isn't an anomaly this season. I think (I haven't seen much of him so I could be wrong) he gets a lot of dirty, net front areas. If he has finishing ability from there that type of scoring works at every level.

I'm not saying having more goals than assists is weird, but in one of the updates a while back his shooting percentage was actually abnormally high (I think it was like 22%). No matter how much of a goal scorer vs playmaker you are, that's gonna come down over time.

Parise played in the way you're describing and he was pretty good at it, his career S% was 11 and he was only ever over 13 once.

 

[Wabit]

Meanwhile, Guerin was named the GM of Team USA and Brackett is still a director of amateur scouting. But I'm sure it's as cut and dried as you laid it out, and Guerin is a moron that's fooled everyone and Brackett is the greatest talent evaluator ever.

TBF USA Hockey is very much a good ol boys club, and he checks all those boxes, so there is that. Is GMBG the best guy for the job? Probably not (this holds true with many jobs), but he is the guy that was offered it and said yes (right place at the right time). So good for him. It's good for MN that he has something to do besides get bored and make random trades to entertain himself during the season.

 

[Sota Popinski]

Who hired Brackett?
Who hired the scouts that report to him?
Who has Brackett drafted for the Wild that we can actually point to and say "he absolutely hit on that pick?"
How has Brackett done over the 4 years he's been here compared to other GM's who have had 6 first round picks and 7 second round picks?
Was Brackett only responsible for the good draft picks made when he was in Vancouver too?
If Brackett has been such a phenomenal evaluator of amateur talent for 9 years, why hasn't someone offered him a job as a GM or assistant GM?

As of right now, Rossi looks like a good pick and the rest of "Brackett's guys" haven't done dick in the NHL

 

[Wabit]

I'm not saying having more goals than assists is weird, but in one of the updates a while back his shooting percentage was actually abnormally high (I think it was like 22%). No matter how much of a goal scorer vs playmaker you are, that's gonna come down over time.

Parise played in the way you're describing and he was pretty good at it, his career S% was 11 and he was only ever over 13 once.

I just want to see the ability is there at this point in his career/development. That s% will drop for sure, but it is a skillset that will/should transfer to higher levels of hockey. It's not the Sokolov, Beckman, Caufield type of perimeter/sniper that skillset that needs to be elite to work in the NHL.

 

[AKL]

I just want to see the ability is there at this point in his career/development. That s% will drop for sure, but it is a skillset that will/should transfer to higher levels of hockey. It's not the Sokolov, Beckman, Caufield type of perimeter/sniper that skillset that needs to be elite to work in the NHL.

Yeah I'm not worried about him translating, I think he'll be a regular NHL player, I just have tempered expectations about his offensive upside, that's all

 

[Sota Popinski]

TBF USA Hockey is very much a good ol boys club, and he checks all those boxes, so there is that. Is GMBG the best guy for the job? Probably not (this holds true with many jobs), but he is the guy that was offered it and said yes (right place at the right time). So good for him. It's good for MN that he has something to do besides get bored and make random trades to entertain himself during the season.

I think most hockey orgs are old boys clubs. What boxes does he check? He can't be the only former US born player to hold a GM job. I would assume the most powerful people in USA Hockey would have gotten worse that Guerin is a doofus that can't identify talent if that's the case.

 

[Wabit]

Yeah I'm not worried about him translating, I think he'll be a regular NHL player, I just have tempered expectations about his offensive upside, that's all

From my limited views of both Ohgren and Yurov. I'd say Ohgren is more NHL ready of the two. Ohgren has a better 2-way game and seems to be into every game. Yurov seems to disappear at times.

I'm caveating this on it's limited viewings and I could have just caught good/bad games that happen to every player throughout a season.

 

[Wabit]

I think most hockey orgs are old boys clubs.

I'd say it's most pro sports in the USA. It happens a plenty in other industries too, but pro sports is a very much a "who you know" business.

 

[AKL]

From my limited views of both Ohgren and Yurov. I'd say Ohgren is more NHL ready of the two. Ohgren has a better 2-way game and seems to be into every game. Yurov seems to disappear at times.

I'm caveating this on it's limited viewings and I could have just caught good/bad games that happen to every player throughout a season.

I think I generally agree. Ohgren is more ready to play the style of NHL game coaches love. Yurov I've watched quite a bit, and he does tend to have games where he isn't noticeable but I don't think it's for lack of effort, but I haven't noticed the *it* factor that players like Fiala and Kaprizov have - yet. I still have his upside as higher than Ohgren, but that's why I wouldn't be upset with Yurov staying in the KHL another year.

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

I'm going to go with...

10% GM credit/blame for amateur scouting
30% GM credit/blame for other team NHL scouting
60% GM credit/blame for own team NHL scouting

Who's with me?

 

[Sota Popinski]

I'm going to go with...

10% GM credit/blame for amateur scouting
30% GM credit/blame for other team NHL scouting
60% GM credit/blame for own team NHL scouting

Who's with me?

I'd go with

33% amateur (split equally with director of scouting and the actual scouts)
50% pro scouting
100% for own team

 

[north21]

Need 1% for blaming the gm and all future gms for all issues related to said team not winning multiple cups?

 

[Wabit]

I'm going to go with...

10% GM credit/blame for amateur scouting
30% GM credit/blame for other team NHL scouting
60% GM credit/blame for own team NHL scouting

Who's with me?

Without knowing the organizational flowchart and who doesn't fall under the GM's domain. I'm going with the GM gets the majority of the credit/blame for most everything that happens once he takes over. Basically because at the end of the day no moves happen without his stamp of approval. Any success/fail of the departments he is in charge of is on him.

He doesn't get credit/blame for players/prospects already drafted/signed. As an example GMBG doesn't get credit/blame for the Parise/Suter contracts, but he does get credit/blame for their buyouts.