Let’s even the playing field…after tax payroll cap

[VivaLasVegas]

What an incredibly stupid thing to say. Montreal is incredible. I'd call it the best city in North America.

You sound like someone who's never left their small town in some rural state.

Except for the awful winters and utterly nothing to do in the winters, yeah, it's really great.

 

[Golden_Jet]

I did not think someone would actually dare consider the Canadian assistance plan ''safety net'' as a comparable to a salary cap and revenue sharing like we know today. but okay, Just as a comparable, 2.7 millions for 4 teams every year is still quite a few millions off what the coyotes get every year. Between 12 to 15 other franchises are collecting every year as well.

Bottom 10 teams get revenue assistance.
Top 10 revenue teams contribute 65% towards the revenue sharing.
Playoff gates contribute the remaining 35%.

Except for the awful winters and utterly nothing to do in the winters, yeah, it's really great.

Some families might prefer safer cities for their kids, especially with all shootings in the US.

 

[CanadienShark]

Except for the awful winters and utterly nothing to do in the winters, yeah, it's really great.

I doubt you've been, if you believe this nonsense.

 

[Sky04]

Except for the awful winters and utterly nothing to do in the winters, yeah, it's really great.

Huh?

 

[VivaLasVegas]

Bottom 10 teams get revenue assistance.
Top 10 revenue teams contribute 65% towards the revenue sharing.
Playoff gates contribute the remaining 35%.


Some families might prefer safer cities for their kids, especially with all shootings in the US.

Probably safer for kids, but I doubt that mostly under-30 athletes care much about that when making decisions where to go live.

Huh?

Like what? One can visit the Biodome only so many times. I guess one could drive down to Stowe and go skiing, but even that's like three hours.

 

[Golden_Jet]

Probably safer for kids, but I doubt that mostly under-30 athletes care much about that when making decisions where to go live.


Like what? One can visit the Biodome only so many times. I guess one could drive down to Stowe and go skiing, but even that's like three hours.

Lmao, there is a lot closer skiing than Stowe.

 

[Darren McCord]

The tax thing is overblown because of spitting chiclets.

Biz uses it to defend TO. I never once read it in here until after that podcast came out.

 

[AvroArrow]

The tax thing is overblown because of spitting chiclets.

Biz uses it to defend TO. I never once read it in here until after that podcast came out.

It's a real thing and real advantage, but I mean it's government law, NHL has no right to interfere with that. It's a job, it would be like me asking my employer for 13% more because people in Florida aren't getting taxed for the same job, makes no sense.

Leave state/province laws out of it, the league has no business interfering with that.

 

[VivaLasVegas]

Lmao, there is a lot closer skiing than Stowe.

True, but I like Stowe as just a place to hang out generally.

 

[Golden_Jet]

True, but I like Stowe as just a place to hang out generally.

That’s fair.

 

[Legion34]

Ok, but it's not like the tax advantage has helped Florida over the years.

And it’s not like having massive payrolls helped Toronto. Philly and the rangers.

So I guess there is no advantage to larger payrolls

We should also ban players from endorsement agreements, and factor in cost of life differences (adjusted for the top 1%).

Why? There isn’t an endorsement cap.
If the NHL chooses to artificially create a cap on endorsements they should make it fair.

If the NHL chooses to put a cap on salaries they should make it fair.

Coming up with things that have nothing to do with the salary cap and imposing fake restrictions to get rid of the fact that the salary cap isn’t fair makes no sense

 

[Legion34]

It's a real thing and real advantage, but I mean it's government law, NHL has no right to interfere with that. It's a job, it would be like me asking my employer for 13% more because people in Florida aren't getting taxed for the same job, makes no sense.

Leave state/province laws out of it, the league has no business interfering with that.

They don’t have to have anything to do with real money.

Your cap hit does not HAVE to be based on real money. They are 2 different things. Just like how buyout cap hits have nothing to do with the money that is paid each year. You can have a buyout hit years after you paid your debt off.

You could easily impose a cap if you wanted that changed each market.

Seguins could be paid the same dollars by the team. But the cap hit could be 11 million.

The cap Isn’t real.

 

[The Devilish Buffoon]

And it’s not like having massive payrolls helped Toronto. Philly and the rangers.

So I guess there is no advantage to larger payrolls



Why? There isn’t an endorsement cap.
If the NHL chooses to artificially create a cap on endorsements they should make it fair.

If the NHL chooses to put a cap on salaries they should make it fair.

Coming up with things that have nothing to do with the salary cap and imposing fake restrictions to get rid of the fact that the salary cap isn’t fair makes no sense

Cost of living and tax rate are inextricably linked.

 

[Legion34]

Cost of living and tax rate are inextricably linked.

No they aren’t? For a variety of reasons.
First. Has your cost of living went up this year? I’m guessing yes. Has your tax rate gone up?

Beyond that. Cost of living has very little to do with rent/gas/rental markets.

If you make 10 million a year and come out with 1.5 million more due to low taxes. Now what?

Say your expenses doubled. So what. Now you pay 10k a month instead of 5. That’s like 40’k a a year. There is no amount of cost of living thar would make up a million dollars a year difference. Especially when you live somewhere 8 months a year. Half on the road.

 

[Golden_Jet]

And it’s not like having massive payrolls helped Toronto. Philly and the rangers.

So I guess there is no advantage to larger payrolls



Why? There isn’t an endorsement cap.
If the NHL chooses to artificially create a cap on endorsements they should make it fair.

If the NHL chooses to put a cap on salaries they should make it fair.

Coming up with things that have nothing to do with the salary cap and imposing fake restrictions to get rid of the fact that the salary cap isn’t fair makes no sense

Why isn’t the salary cap fair.

 

[TaLoN]

Why isn’t the salary cap fair.

What makes it unfair?

 

[Golden_Jet]

What makes it unfair?

you just asked the same question I did.

 

[Unspecified]

Dallas???

Yea I was like "yo we are excelling?".

Not a coincidence that the states with no income tax are consistently icing teams that excel:

Tampa Bay Lightning
Florida Panthers
Las Vegas
Dallas

Also not a coincidence that Canadian teams, with a much higher income tax rate aren’t coming close to winning a Stanley Cup, a 29 year drought.

Time for the NHL to even the rather lopsided playing field and consider after tax income when setting the payroll cap

Let me guess, a team you support is NOT one of the ones you listed? This is the same damn argument that pops up multiple times a season.

 

[MasterofGrond]

I see the merits, but I also don't think this is a MUST HAVE. I'd be interested to see what an actual math'd out breakdown of what the functional caps for each team would be in pre-tax dollars though.

Also Montreal RULES, f*** the haters.

 

[HatTrick Swayze]

It will never happen because of the way CBAs are negotiated and the balance of power between owners.

And I admit I am biased as an NYR fan.

But the plain truth is - if any other business was opening offices in both Boston and Columbus, the same payroll budget and salary scales would not be used.

 

[Shaman464]

1. Players usually have to pay income taxes on a per game basis. So any games they play that are in a city with them, they pay income taxes.
2. You get a deduction for state income tax paid on your federal return, so they pay more federal taxes on that money.
3. Non-US nationals will have to pay income taxes to their home nations, which is usually mitigated by taxes paid to the state/nation they work in. So no state income tax means they are paying more in taxes to their home country.
4. This is a dead horse. Should New York and LA have a cap penalty for being more desirable than Toronto or Calgary or Edmonton to live in too?

 

[WarriorofTime]

So where does Colorado rank in terms of local taxes?

Should we also give them a salary cap penalty because they have beautiful mountains and a lot of people want to move there right now?

 

[VinikToWinIt]

So where does Colorado rank in terms of local taxes?

Should we also give them a salary cap penalty because they have beautiful mountains and a lot of people want to move there right now?

Let's even the elevation. No arenas above sea level.

 

[Morrison]

The only thing the NHL can do to minimize the tax advantage between the teams in U.S. states with no state income taxes and the teams in states/provinces with state/provincial income taxes is to prohibit signing bonuses. It's the signing bonuses which can make a difference for a player in the end.

Steven Stamkos' contract is a prime example of it:
2016-17: $8.5m (SB) + $1m (salary)
2017-18: $8.5m (SB) + $1m (salary)
2018-19: $8.5m (SB) + $1m (salary)
2019-20: $8.5m (SB) + $1m (salary)
2020-21: $8.5m (SB) + $1m (salary)
2021-22: $6.5m (SB) + $1m (salary)
2022-23: $5.5m (SB) + $1m (salary)
2023-24: $5.5m (SB) + $1m (salary)
Totals: $60m (SB) + $8m (salary)

Signing bonuses are usually paid during the off-season and taxed in the state/province the player are resident in. It's the salary, which are paid out 13 times during the regular season, are taxed in the state/province the player (and the team) are when the salary is paid out.

If the NHL had prohibited signing bonuses then Stamkos would not been so eager to give any major discount to Tampa because much more of his salary would be taxed. He would then demand another $1-3 million to the annual salary on his current contract. That would lead to that Tampa could not have the roster they've now and probably not been able to achieve a potential three-peat because the other star players would also demand higher salaries which mean less competent support players on the roster.

 

[North Cole]

Not a coincidence that the states with no income tax are consistently icing teams that excel:

Tampa Bay Lightning
Florida Panthers
Las Vegas
Dallas

Also not a coincidence that Canadian teams, with a much higher income tax rate aren’t coming close to winning a Stanley Cup, a 29 year drought.

Time for the NHL to even the rather lopsided playing field and consider after tax income when setting the payroll cap

Let's not and say we did.

Also, not how taxes work.