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Leon Draisaitl is one of the best playoff performers in NHL history

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He is too much of a weakness at ES.

Every single playoffs, McDavid is his most common linemate at ES. It means that more often than not, they are playing together at ES vs. centering their own separate lines. They cannot be consistently separated like Crosby/Malkin, Sakic/Forsberg, Yzerman/Federov etc....

McDrai are one of the great duos of all-time but they are not a two headed monster like Crosby and Malkin were that created much needed depth and matchup challenges for their opponents.

Since 2021, they do better in the regular season in keeping them separated (about 65% of the time they are separated vs. 52% of the time in the playoffs). Here are some stats:

McDavid has been in on 40% of Draisaitl's regular season ES points
Draisaitl has been in on 32% of McDavid's regular season ES points

McDavid's regular season plus/minus with Draisaitl on the ice is +83
McDavid's regular season plus/minus with Draisaitl not on the ice is +56

Draisaitl's regular season plus/minus with McDavid on the ice is +83
Draisaitl's regular season plus/minus with McDavid not on the ice is +27

COMMENT: Not a huge surprise that McDavid has a bigger influence on Draisaitl's ES production than Draisaitl on McDavid but Draisaitl has held his own at ES.

McDavid has been in on 58% of Draisaitl's playoff ES points
Draisaitl has been in on 61% of McDavid's playoff ES points

McDavid's playoff plus/minus with Draisaitl on the ice is +19
McDavid's playoff plus/minus with Draisaitl not on the ice is 0

Draisaitl's playoff plus/minus with McDavid on the ice is +19
Draisaitl's playoff plus/minus with McDavid not on the ice is -13

In 2022, Draisaitl's playoff plus/minus with McDavid on the ice is +16
Draisaitl's playoff plus/minus with McDavid not on the ice is -8


COMMENT: A not surprising increase in their ES point shares given they increase their TOI together in the playoffs. There is a clear indication that Draisaitl is significantly weaker at ES when McDavid is not on the ice with him. This is a weakness.
 
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bobholly39 said:
Comparing peak Lemieux (1989 to 1992) to Drai + McDavid (last 3 years, 2022 to 2024) for first 2 rounds only:

Lemieuex 31 games, 24 goals 55 points. 1.77 PPG .77 GPG
Draisaitl 33 games, 28 goals 64 points, 1.94 PPG .85 GPG
McDavid 33 games 17 giaksm 64 points, 1.94 PPG .27 GPG

So - they both have actually outdone peak Lemieux in firts 2 rounds past 3 years, in more games played too.

Of course.....Lemieux then went on to post the following numbers in rounds 3 and 4 in that stretch:

18 games, 20 goals, 42 points. 2.33 PPG 1.11 GPG

We'll see how McDrai perform if they can go to round 3 and 4 - but even without that they've been tremendous past 3 years.
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Sorry, but Draisaitl is not objectively comparable to Mario.

When you factor in linemates, deployment, ES scoring, defense etc. it is debatable that you take Draisaitl over Mac or Kucherov for the playoffs.

Since the Wayne/Mario era, here are the players ahead of Draisaitl:

McDavid
Crosby
Malkin (debatable)
probably Jagr
Forsberg
Sakic
 
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daver said:
Sorry, but Draisaitl is not objectively comparable to Mario.

When you factor in linemates, deployment, ES scoring, defense etc. it is debatable that you take Draisaitl over Mac or Kucherov for the playoffs.

Since the Wayne/Mario era, here are the players ahead of Draisaitl:

McDavid
Crosby
Malkin (debatable)
probably Jagr
Forsberg
Sakic
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So you're subjectively explaining why my objective numbers showing production is close, is wrong?

Got it.
 
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bobholly39 said:
So you're subjectively explaining why my objective numbers showing production is close, is wrong?

Got it.
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Not sure any comparison you make where there's a 30+ year gap in era can be "objective".

I agree with that post in that Draisatl doesn't match the dominance of Mario (This one really isn't even close), nor Jagr+Sakic, nor Crosby. Malkin's probably the closest and fairest comparable, but again, you have to factor in the toughness of Conference Final and SCF games versus Round 1 + Round 2.

Ultimately, the comparisons you're making can never be objective. But yes, we get it, McDavid and Draisatl have a track record of feasting on teams in the first 2 rounds of the playoffs.
 
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Typically the further you get into the playoffs the tougher the competition. You also get worn down more the deeper you get in the playoffs. Also, penalty calls get stingier, meaning less PP chances. Would be interesting to see how Drai would do compared to some of the greats if he ever consistently gets deep into the playoffs.
 
Really hard not to admire what he has done. And trust me it kills me to compliment anything anyone from Edmonton

But I am so awe by his playoff play. 100 points in 60 games is a great achievement in regular season but to do it in playoffs is just on an another level
 
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Zbynek said:
Not sure any comparison you make where there's a 30+ year gap in era can be "objective".

I agree with that post in that Draisatl doesn't match the dominance of Mario (This one really isn't even close), nor Jagr+Sakic, nor Crosby. Malkin's probably the closest and fairest comparable, but again, you have to factor in the toughness of Conference Final and SCF games versus Round 1 + Round 2.

Ultimately, the comparisons you're making can never be objective. But yes, we get it, McDavid and Draisatl have a track record of feasting on teams in the first 2 rounds of the playoffs.
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Just to clarify - I am in no way shape or form trying to suggest Draisaitl is better, or even as good as Mario Lemieux. He is not.

But his numbers have been staggering, and very close to the numbers Mario produced at his very peak. And I think that's pretty incredible, and worth pointing out.

Too many posters trying to diminish that.
 
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Zbynek said:
Not sure any comparison you make where there's a 30+ year gap in era can be "objective".

I agree with that post in that Draisatl doesn't match the dominance of Mario (This one really isn't even close), nor Jagr+Sakic, nor Crosby. Malkin's probably the closest and fairest comparable, but again, you have to factor in the toughness of Conference Final and SCF games versus Round 1 + Round 2.

Ultimately, the comparisons you're making can never be objective. But yes, we get it, McDavid and Draisatl have a track record of feasting on teams in the first 2 rounds of the playoffs.
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Is there anything to quantify the "toughness" of conference and SC finals? There hasn't been a remotely close SCF since pre-pandemic. Vegas had a tougher time with Draisaitl and the Oilers in round 2 last year than they did in rounds 3 or 4.
 
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Sasha Orlov said:
There was no reason to before this playoffs but we all saw what happened
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regular season/fantasy they are close maybe Matthews trumps him abit. but add in playoffs and yeah Drai should prob be ahead of him

just kinda funny how even a 69 goal season and his 2nd 60 goal season with his playoffs pushes him down. but to be fair, until they won the same shit was happening with OV.

I also dont think Leafs or any Canadian team will ever win a cup as long as Bettman is the commish

Leafs prob only win once they pass the Cubs for longest most pathetic championship drought and sadly I likely wont be alive to see it
 
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bobholly39 said:
So you're subjectively explaining why my objective numbers showing production is close, is wrong?

Got it.
Click to expand...

Do you think he is as good as Mario was in the playoffs?

bobholly39 said:
Agreed.

*checks stats....*

Draisaitl 9 EVP these playoffs. 2nd in league - only 2 players are ahead (10 EVP) but all have 1 more game played.

Yeah - he sucks. Terribly weak...
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* Checks stats* - He is a minus 12 player at ES without McDavid since 2021.

It is a weakness that he cannot produce on his own at ES; one of the reasons why the Oilers cannot go farther in the playoffs.
 
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HockeyVirus said:
He doesn't play a lick of defense. Imagine if the other stars around the league completely abandoned the 2nd half of the ice and cherry picked for 2 on 1's all game long what their production would look like. Now imagine they also had McDavid feeding them on the PP (in which they draw top of the league in PP opportunities). Then all he has to do is let the goalie and coach be the scapegoat.

He is obviously an incredible player. I enjoy watching him a lot, and especially love watching him on the PP and how he can score on the slimmest angles. But if you watch him it is obvious why the team has never won anything in the postseason..
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How can leaf fans be so delusional it's a scary indicator for life in Toronto. What does this mean about Austin can't wins round Matthews than?
 
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GhostfaceWu said:
How can leaf fans be so delusional it's a scary indicator for life in Toronto. What does this mean about Austin can't wins round Matthews than?
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He's a troll.

Drai plays hard on defence but misses coverage or watches the puck at times, but to say he ignores half the ice is a plain troll job that I wouldn't give attention.
 
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HockeyVirus said:
He doesn't play a lick of defense. Imagine if the other stars around the league completely abandoned the 2nd half of the ice and cherry picked for 2 on 1's all game long what their production would look like. Now imagine they also had McDavid feeding them on the PP (in which they draw top of the league in PP opportunities). Then all he has to do is let the goalie and coach be the scapegoat.

He is obviously an incredible player. I enjoy watching him a lot, and especially love watching him on the PP and how he can score on the slimmest angles. But if you watch him it is obvious why the team has never won anything in the postseason..
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I’m so conflicted about if this is completely true. I think there’s something to the lack of McDrai winning that isn’t all the fault of their defensemen and goalies, but I don’t know how much blame goes to them. It’s some, but how much?
 
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