Player Discussion Leo Carlsson

[Mr Rogers]

You know Leo has struck a chord when Hawks fans start posting defensively in his thread.

 

[TheDarkWingThatDucks]

It doesn't bother me that he was there but he played exactly one game and was hardly noticeable. It was a short tournament. Every game was a must win. That was the focus of every meeting and every practice. It wasn't a let's develop Leo for the Olympics training camp. He could have stayed home (I'm not saying he should have) and it would have had the exact same impact on his career.

Dr. J…. Please know this is not an aha gotcha moment.

But truly curious, do you still think that Leo’s
Experience at the 4 nations has had zero
Impact on his career still ? And it’s okay if you still feel that way, it still may be true. Just curious how you feel about our conversation as of today’s date.

 

[Dr Johnny Fever]

Dr. J…. Please know this is not an aha gotcha moment.

But truly curious, do you still think that Leo’s
Experience at the 4 nations has had zero
Impact on his career still ? And it’s okay if you still feel that way, it still may be true. Just curious how you feel about our conversation as of today’s date.

You know, curiosity killed the cat.

But to answer your question, yes. All he has said since he came back is that he planned to shoot more. I'm sure he's been getting that advice in Anaheim on more than one occasion. He shot more, scored a couple of big goals and his confidence zoomed.

His whole tournament lasted 3 games, two of which he didn't even dress for. There was no magic sauce served with dinner that changed him as a player. He played one meaningless game and didn't stand out in any way. Did he talk with other guys there? Of course he did. Were they positive and encouraging to him? I'm sure they were. He enjoyed the experience. I never denied that. If anything he may have just come back relaxed with a clear mind and an objective to shoot more.

Other Ducks have played well since the break and none of them went to the tournament. All they did was go to Mexico and party. How do you account for that? The break served as nice reset for a lot of players, him being one of them. I couldn't be happier with the results they've all put up since then.

You're welcome to believe what you want. But you've yet to point to anything that actally backs it up. If he goes on to have a hall of fame career will it be because of that tournament? I'm still going to say no.

 

[ScarTroy]

You know, curiosity killed the cat.

But to answer your question, yes. All he has said since he came back is that he planned to shoot more. I'm sure he's been getting that advice in Anaheim on more than one occasion. He shot more, scored a couple of big goals and his confidence zoomed.

His whole tournament lasted 3 games, two of which he didn't even dress for. There was no magic sauce served with dinner that changed him as a player. He played one meaningless game and didn't stand out in any way. Did he talk with other guys there? Of course he did. Were they positive and encouraging to him? I'm sure they were. He enjoyed the experience. I never denied that. If anything he may have just come back relaxed with a clear mind and an objective to shoot more.

Other Ducks have played well since the break and none of them went to the tournament. All they did was go to Mexico and party. How do you account for that? The break served as nice reset for a lot of players, him being one of them. I couldn't be happier with the results they've all put up since then.

You're welcome to believe what you want. But you've yet to point to anything that actally backs it up. If he goes on to have a hall of fame career will it be because of that tournament? I'm still going to say no.

I agree, people acting like he had some profound experience while at 4 nations are kidding themselves. It was a good reset and he got to be around good players, but let’s not act like he’s not playing exactly how Cronin said he wanted him to play prior to the break. Driving the inside and shooting more is what Cronin has repeatedly preached. And no this isn’t a pro Cronin post, it’s just pointing out that he likely didn’t get any special coaching that made any real difference while there, other than seeing what actual elite talent do on their day to day basis.

 

[zegrassyknoll]

It would be silly to think that his time at the Four Nations would shape the rest of his career, but it's equally silly to think he couldn't have learned anything in that two-week span.

All it takes is a single comment from a single coach to change the way you think about the game. It's not even that the 4N coaches are better, they just could offer a different perspective from the ones he's been hearing for his entire professional career so far.

Not to mention that, because he didn't suit up, he probably had hours of 1:1 with skills coaches.

 

[Kalv]

Albeit with many flaws in his game, I do think he was a bit unlucky before. Then add rest for a young player not used to play this many games (same with Cutter). And also him seeing he can actually hang with the best and perhaps picking up some habits from other Swedish star players, and there you go. It could all help form a better situation for him to thrive

 

[Anaheim4ever]

I think he's clearly the most important forward for this teams success now and going forward.
Carlsson's age in his 2nd NHL season is the same age Zegras was in his first season where he had 13 points in 24 games. Carlsson has 40 in 67 games. So next season Carlsson should have a pretty good season with around 70 points assuming he plays around 80 games. Carlsson went straight to the NHL, Z went to College to for 2 years and then debuted same year his 2nd college season ended.

 

[JAHV]

It would be silly to think that his time at the Four Nations would shape the rest of his career, but it's equally silly to think he couldn't have learned anything in that two-week span.

All it takes is a single comment from a single coach to change the way you think about the game. It's not even that the 4N coaches are better, they just could offer a different perspective from the ones he's been hearing for his entire professional career so far.

Not to mention that, because he didn't suit up, he probably had hours of 1:1 with skills coaches.

This is where I'm at. Did this one moment make or break his career? Probably not (although there have been great players in all sports who have attributed their success to similar short-term experiences).

But was it important in getting his mindset back on track, learning under some different coaches, and spending time around elite players who are also his countrymen? Of course we'll never have evidence one way or the other, but I have a hard time believing he didn't benefit from it. Perhaps even significantly.

In the games since he's been back, I don't know if I remember seeing one instance where he visibly reacted in frustration. I have to think the 4 Nations time helped his confidence, which, to me, was the biggest thing holding him back.

 

[Static]

You know Leo has struck a chord when Hawks fans start posting defensively in his thread.

Oh no, Chicago certified pedophiles

 

[The Midnight Burrito]

Oh no, Chicago certified pedophiles

Let's get another look at that Chi goal horn...

 

[TheDarkWingThatDucks]

I agree, people acting like he had some profound experience while at 4 nations are kidding themselves. It was a good reset and he got to be around good players, but let’s not act like he’s not playing exactly how Cronin said he wanted him to play prior to the break. Driving the inside and shooting more is what Cronin has repeatedly preached. And no this isn’t a pro Cronin post, it’s just pointing out that he likely didn’t get any special coaching that made any real difference while there, other than seeing what actual elite talent do on their day to day basis.

All cards in the table I don’t think the experience was this life altering moment in his career. I was more arguing at the time that he made the team because Sweden sees him as a big part of the future of their international team.

The only thing I can truly point to as a possibility is playing at the speed (albeit in a meaningless game) may have helped slow down the NHL game for him. But that’s pure conjecture on my part.

I’d argue even if it wasn’t pro Cronin, if this is the new Leo to end this year and continue from there, he definitely deserves his flowers. I personally want Cronin to turn it around with his team (although I’m not saying I think that it happens), just because I like rooting for people to succeed and to watch the entire Ducks fanbase basically be wrong on a guy (for the betterment of the team) would be a fun little story.

 

[Hockey Duckie]

It would be silly to think that his time at the Four Nations would shape the rest of his career, but it's equally silly to think he couldn't have learned anything in that two-week span.

All it takes is a single comment from a single coach to change the way you think about the game. It's not even that the 4N coaches are better, they just could offer a different perspective from the ones he's been hearing for his entire professional career so far.

Not to mention that, because he didn't suit up, he probably had hours of 1:1 with skills coaches.

A similar situation occurred with LaCombe in college.

When LaCombe was drafted, he was a scoring machine in high school with 89 points (22g + 67a in 54 games) and his favorite player or who he wants to model his game as was Shea Theodore. Going the college route, LaCombe was focused on learning how to play defense, but his offense was stunted for his freshman year and the beginning of next season.

It was in LaCombe's second year in college and he was part of team USA's U20 squad when something changed when he returned to college. I think the team USA coaches never lost confidence in LaCombe when LaCombe got rocked throughout the Russian game. LaCombe looked lost at the end of the Russian game. Yet, the coaches kept putting LaCombe in as a 7D. LaCombe began to show his offensive prowess that eventually lead to a goal with a long breakout pass. That showed off his great vision.

I would have thought that LaCombe's confidence was shook that he wouldn't do well going back to college. Instead, the exact opposite happened. It's as if someone told him he played against the best at the WJC-20 and he had the skills to compete with them. When he returned to college, his offense took off and LaCombe hasn't looked back since.

No idea what really caused his brain to flip the switch, but something happened at the WJC-20 to make it turn on.

 

[Dr Johnny Fever]

It would be silly to think that his time at the Four Nations would shape the rest of his career, but it's equally silly to think he couldn't have learned anything in that two-week span.

All it takes is a single comment from a single coach to change the way you think about the game. It's not even that the 4N coaches are better, they just could offer a different perspective from the ones he's been hearing for his entire professional career so far.

Not to mention that, because he didn't suit up, he probably had hours of 1:1 with skills coaches.

Good young players are always open to coaching advice. I wouldn't expect Leo to be any different. But given it was a short tournament whose only goal was to win every game, and given how he was the 13th forward on the team, it's pretty hard to imagine them taking extra time to give him special one on one coaching as a guy who was not being counted on to contribute at all in the tournament.

As I said before, I'm sure he enjoyed the experience and the break from the seasonal grind. Just like many of his teammates did.

 

[Sean Garrity]

Good young players are always open to coaching advice. I wouldn't expect Leo to be any different. But given it was a short tournament whose only goal was to win every game, and given how he was the 13th forward on the team, it's pretty hard to imagine them taking extra time to give him special one on one coaching as a guy who was not being counted on to contribute at all in the tournament.

As I said before, I'm sure he enjoyed the experience and the break from the seasonal grind. Just like many of his teammates did.

There also is the perspective that it appears to be clear that he’s Sweden’s hope for a #1C at the international level for the next 10 years, so I think they’re definitely going to make sure he’s buying in to that culture and continuing to expand his game.

 

[GunnarStahl]

I think he's clearly the most important forward for this teams success now and going forward.
Carlsson's age in his 2nd NHL season is the same age Zegras was in his first season where he had 13 points in 24 games. Carlsson has 40 in 67 games. So next season Carlsson should have a pretty good season with around 70 points assuming he plays around 80 games. Carlsson went straight to the NHL, Z went to College to for 2 years and then debuted same year his 2nd college season ended.

This is definitely not how Z's pro career started.

He was one and done in college. His d+2 year started with his famous WJC the some time in the A before his call up.

 

[HanSolo]

Good young players are always open to coaching advice. I wouldn't expect Leo to be any different. But given it was a short tournament whose only goal was to win every game, and given how he was the 13th forward on the team, it's pretty hard to imagine them taking extra time to give him special one on one coaching as a guy who was not being counted on to contribute at all in the tournament.

As I said before, I'm sure he enjoyed the experience and the break from the seasonal grind. Just like many of his teammates did.

As fun as it might be to use the Four Nations to crack about "real coaching" I doubt Leo picked up too many original lessons on how to play the game or got enough superior drilling reps that it would have developed his game to an excessive degree over a two week stretch..

We know Leo came back with the mindset that he wanted to shoot the puck more but I'm sure Cronin was already preaching that to him. I still think the experience was good for him though. It really seemed like during Leo's pre-4N slump, he was really frustrated with himself and maybe with the performance of the team in general and that probably contributed to what looked like unfocused mistakes.

He comes back, and yeah the mistakes are still there but they started to happen less often and overall he looked like his confidence we'd seen his rookie year was back. It's pure guesswork but I would think just being around other Swedish star players and seeing what his future could look like, playing for this same team at the Olympics, probably motivated him and snapped him out of his mental funk.

I don't think Leo's hot streak coming off the four nations was a coincidence, but I don't think it was evidence of the effect of "real coaching" either.

 

[zegrassyknoll]

Good young players are always open to coaching advice. I wouldn't expect Leo to be any different. But given it was a short tournament whose only goal was to win every game, and given how he was the 13th forward on the team, it's pretty hard to imagine them taking extra time to give him special one on one coaching as a guy who was not being counted on to contribute at all in the tournament.

As I said before, I'm sure he enjoyed the experience and the break from the seasonal grind. Just like many of his teammates did.

Having 1:1 with skills coaches isn't special treatment, it's the standard treatment for players who aren't playing in games.

It isn't just for the players, it's an opportunity for newer coaches to develop their own skills as well.

 

[Dr Johnny Fever]

Having 1:1 with skills coaches isn't special treatment, it's the standard treatment for players who aren't playing in games.

It isn't just for the players, it's an opportunity for newer coaches to develop their own skills as well.

For a team playing a full season I would agree. I doubt they bring extra coaches or spend extra time with non playing individuals for a 3-4 game tournament across the pond.

 

[zegrassyknoll]

For a team playing a full season I would agree. I doubt they bring extra coaches or spend extra time with non playing individuals for a 3-4 game tournament across the pond.

There are literally photos of him working 1:1 with Alfredsson lol

 

[Dr Johnny Fever]

There are literally photos of him working 1:1 with Alfredsson lol

Not really sure what this proves. They were on the ice together at practice. Was this the big secret sauce that ignited Leo's game? Do tell.

I'm waiting for somebody to point to the big epiphany Leo had at the tournament that allows you to say it was the tournament that caused his improved play. Nobody can.

I merely pointed out that this tournament was just another few days in the life of a young world class athlete evolving in the top professional league of his sport. Nothing more, nothing less.

 

[JAHV]

For a team playing a full season I would agree. I doubt they bring extra coaches or spend extra time with non playing individuals for a 3-4 game tournament across the pond.

I don't think they would have brought Leo at all if they weren't going to give him some extra attention and work in practice. He's their future Forsberg. If the plan was just to ignore him for a couple weeks, what's the point? Of course Sweden wanted to win, but I don't think that was their only goal, and certainly that wasn't their main impetus for bringing Carlsson.

This isn't black and white. The 4 Nations time probably didn't unlock some secret ability that Leo never knew he had, like Link finding the Master Sword. But it also wasn't just a random 10 days in the life of an athlete where he would have been just as impacted as going to Mexico. He got to spend a lot of time around superstars and legends and great coaches from his own country. That's valuable time. His surge since then could be a coincidence, but his demeanor on the ice is so different, I think it's likely it had some positive effect on him.

 

[zegrassyknoll]

Not really sure what this proves. They were on the ice together at practice. Was this the big secret sauced that ignited Leo's game? Do tell.

I'm waiting for somebody to point to the big epiphany Leo had at the tournament that allows you to say it was the tournament that caused his improved play. Nobody can.

I merely pointed out that this tournament was just another few days in the life of a young world class athlete evolving in the top professional league of his sport. Nothing more, nothing less.

You keep moving the goal posts. First it's that he didn't spend any time with coaches because he wasn't playing in games, now it's that he spent time with coaches but that there's no proof it did anything.

Obviously I can't provide you with the exact moment things improved but the proof is in the pudding, dude.

A "mental reset" would make sense if he had been good early in the season, slumping before the tournament, and then good again after. That's not what happened. He has more points in the 19 games since 4Nations than the 48 games before it combined - this isn't a reset, it's a different direction.

 

[Dr Johnny Fever]

You keep moving the goal posts. First it's that he didn't spend any time with coaches because he wasn't playing in games, now it's that he spent time with coaches but that there's no proof it did anything.

Obviously I can't provide you with the exact moment things improved but the proof is in the pudding, dude.

A "mental reset" would make sense if he had been good early in the season, slumping before the tournament, and then good again after. That's not what happened. He has more points in the 19 games since 4Nations than the 48 games before it combined - this isn't a reset, it's a different direction.

So I guess your saying it was the session with Alfie that turned everything? I haven't moved any goal posts. You people claiming he had an epiphany there can't point to one thing that would credit the tournament as a the reason for his improvement. All I said was it was nothing more than a day in the life of a young highly talented pro athlete.

 

[zegrassyknoll]

So I guess your saying it was the session with Alfie that turned everything? I haven't moved any goal posts. You people claiming he had an epiphany there can't point to one thing that would credit the tournament as a the reason for his improvement. All I said was it was nothing more than a day in the life of a young highly talented pro athlete.

That "one thing" that would credit the tournament is the fact that he has more points in the ~20 games after the tournament than in the ~50 games before it.

Feels like you're being deliberately obtuse at this point so I'll just leave it at that.

 

[Koffein]

So I guess your saying it was the session with Alfie that turned everything? I haven't moved any goal posts. You people claiming he had an epiphany there can't point to one thing that would credit the tournament as a the reason for his improvement. All I said was it was nothing more than a day in the life of a young highly talented pro athlete.

Rumors out of team Sweden has it that Alfie told him to visualize Scotty top glove.