Beauner
Registered User
Because one of those things has a ton to do with the other. But please, continue to be a dick because I was thinking aloud.
News Article: Lemieux, Burkle exploring possible sale of Penguins
- Thread starter WickedWrister
- Start date
Because one of those things has a ton to do with the other. But please, continue to be a dick because I was thinking aloud.
Ogrezilla
Nerf Herder
i thought we were listing things that we could confidently say weren't going to happen. I just feel like people haven't actually read the story at all. Burkle is not selling anything.
Beauner
Registered User
Even then he's barely around. I doubt Crosby is real buddy-buddy with Ron Burkle...
Ogrezilla
Nerf Herder
ok, so have you also ignored the parts about Mario not planning to sell his entire portion of the team, and that he still fully intends to remain affiliated with the team?
Beauner
Registered User
Of course he does, he's not gonna sever ties completely. He still has his charity here too. But if he does sell of a majority I wouldn't be surprised if he spends most of his time in that mansion he built in Quebec.
Rico Fatastic
Registered User
- Jul 28, 2002
- 2,979
- 0
Bob Nutting buying some of the Penguins is a much more feasible scenario than I suspect a lot of people realize for this very reason. Buying Root and/or starting their own sports broadcast channel was supposedly one of the biggest reasons why Mario and Burkle made an offer to buy the Pirates a couple years ago. And if it was good business back than, it would probably be good business now. And, well, we know if there's one thing Bob Nutting is, it's a good businessman.
With that being said, I think such an adjustment in the Penguins' ownership might be less catastrophic than it might appear at first glance. NHL owners simply don't have the option of pocketing enormous sums of revenue sharing like small market MLB owners do. Especially in Pittsburgh, where a lot of folks are already wary of Bob Nutting, the team will have to spend at or near the cap in order to maintain fan loyalty and make a profit. Most NHL teams spend at or near the cap anyway. It's a viable business strategy under the current CBA, even for small market teams.
And more importantly, if the Pirates are any indication, you can be confident that a Bob Nutting-owned hockey team would hire good people. He would quickly put an end to not-so-brilliant experiments like Jim Rutherford and his Council of Idiots. And his team sure as hell wouldn't give obnoxious sums of money for way too long to tired old veterans who are on the verge of becoming washed up.
Ziggyjoe21
Registered User
I think you're talking about a different Bob Nutting. The Pirates had ridiculously inept people in the front office until (if I recall correctly) the MLB stepped in and made them hire Frank Coonelly, as opposed to the usual dope they hire. It's a lot more profitable for Nutting to spend $50 mill a year to lose than to spend $100 mill a year to win.
Bob Nutting is the last person I want involved with the Penguins.
plaidchuck
Registered User
To be fair, the little lottery ball awarding them the Crosby pick had a hand in making then financially viable.anyone want to speculate what the team would have been like if the pens got johnson or ryan instead?
plaidchuck
Registered User
Don't get the nutting hate, got to admire a team that competes for a pennant on a paupers budget compared to the rest of the league.
Ogrezilla
Nerf Herder
plaidchuck
Registered User
Ziggyjoe21
Registered User
That's on the GM, coaches, and scouts. Has literally zero to do with the owner. If anything Nutting stifles the team by making minimal addition to the pay role despite making the 3rd highest PROFIT last year.
NHL teams are less profitable than MLB teams, and the revenue sharing is no where near as lucrative in NHL than in MLB. With the Pens being a small market team I'm wiling to bet Nutting would spend closer to the cap floor than cap ceiling.
Regardless, sounds like Burkle is keeping his share and the potential future owners will be mere minority owners, similar to what the Steelers did a few years ago.
Beauner
Registered User
Definitely. And the reason they could be so aggressive in the draft is because NH was allowed to give major signing bonuses. Well, until the MLB put a cap on that...
But I'm not as down on Nutting now as I once was. That's not to say I like him though.
gordie
5x
Jaded-Fan
Registered User
No clue why people are not worried about this. I have no clue who might buy the Pens but whoever it is will at best be a lateral move as far as wealth to spend to the cap each year goes. And more likely a step or two (or ten) backward. Whatever my complaints of some of the things ownership has done, they always provided the resources because Burkle has more money than the Catholic Church.
As for the Nuttings?
They do not mind putting a winning team on the field but will not spend a dime more than they have to toward that goal. Consistently one of the bottom payrolls in the game, and consistently pocket one of the biggest profits in the game. If it were between Hitler and the Nuttings owning the Pens, I would have to lean toward Adolf. Yes there is a cap and a floor, but you can expect the Pens to spend only to the floor and not a dime more if that happens. Money is not everything, but it makes the job a lot harder if you choose not to spend to the cap, even with good coaching and management. Phoenix, Nashville, and others are examples.
And that is the point. Nuttings or someone else, you can not spend more than to the cap. That is and has been our status quo. The only possibility with a change is the same or worse. That said, it seems like the Pens are moving toward the change. I am going to worry until I see what it actually means.
As for the Nuttings?
They do not mind putting a winning team on the field but will not spend a dime more than they have to toward that goal. Consistently one of the bottom payrolls in the game, and consistently pocket one of the biggest profits in the game. If it were between Hitler and the Nuttings owning the Pens, I would have to lean toward Adolf. Yes there is a cap and a floor, but you can expect the Pens to spend only to the floor and not a dime more if that happens. Money is not everything, but it makes the job a lot harder if you choose not to spend to the cap, even with good coaching and management. Phoenix, Nashville, and others are examples.
And that is the point. Nuttings or someone else, you can not spend more than to the cap. That is and has been our status quo. The only possibility with a change is the same or worse. That said, it seems like the Pens are moving toward the change. I am going to worry until I see what it actually means.
plaidchuck
Registered User
Penguinator
Kesselator
"Nobody is going anywhere until they're told otherwise!"
Seriously, you spend on an a$$et because it brings more, plain & $imple.
Honour Over Glory
#firesully
- Jan 30, 2012
- 81,443
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Looks like Walnut Capital is interested once again like a few years ago.
The Condo people?
Ogrezilla
Nerf Herder
We aren't worried because Burkle likely isn't selling anything and Mario isn't even likely to sell everything. At the end of this Ron Burkle will still be the majority owner of the team. Most likely Mario will be a minority owner of the team. We'll just have some other minority owner, who most likely will have more money than Mario.
You absolutely can spend more than just to the cap. You can spend more on any non-roster position in the organization such as scouts or coaches.
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Winger for Hire
Praise Beebo
Once Nutting got controlling interest in the Pirates (2007) he made sure to put progressive and knowledgeable people in positions of importance (Coonelly and Huntington) to handle the team building and day to day operations. Behind the scenes he rebuilt their international scouting philosophy and facilities, renovated a dilapidated Pirates City, and brought in a High A team for their minor league system. Everyone wants to ***** about Nutting not constantly throwing money at the MLB and raising the payroll drastically (2015- $88mil; 2007- $38mil), but Nutting understood that there was an underlying problem with the organization and took the right steps to build a solid foundation for long term success through scouting and drafting, while also giving the MLB team the funds to compete when the need arose.
Imagine if the Pens had an ownership that looked at the underlying problems of a failing season. Imagine if they had an ownership that emphasized scouting, international signings, and player development. If you objectively step back and take a look at the Pirates since Nutting was given full control, it is EXACTLY what this board has been clamoring for since the Cup win.
The best quote I've ever heard about Nutting, was from a former Pirates minority owner (Jay Lustig), "“(Nutting's) problem is he is a rational owner in an irrational business." While he saw this a problem, I see this as a great strength, as he's been able to not fall into the traps most sports owners fall into and bend to the irrational spending and old time trends and ways of thinking. He's been able to stay a rational thinking man and turn the Pirates into a contender, not just for the short haul, but for many, many seasons to come.
Isn't that all what we've been asking of Penguins management and ownership?
Edit-
Rest of the Lustig quote:
“People say he is a cheap owner, but nothing is further from the truth. He allocates the money properly. He wants to make enough money to keep us from going into the red. He is running the business rationally, trying to make money. No small-market teams that win make money.”
Imagine if the Pens had an ownership that looked at the underlying problems of a failing season. Imagine if they had an ownership that emphasized scouting, international signings, and player development. If you objectively step back and take a look at the Pirates since Nutting was given full control, it is EXACTLY what this board has been clamoring for since the Cup win.
The best quote I've ever heard about Nutting, was from a former Pirates minority owner (Jay Lustig), "“(Nutting's) problem is he is a rational owner in an irrational business." While he saw this a problem, I see this as a great strength, as he's been able to not fall into the traps most sports owners fall into and bend to the irrational spending and old time trends and ways of thinking. He's been able to stay a rational thinking man and turn the Pirates into a contender, not just for the short haul, but for many, many seasons to come.
Isn't that all what we've been asking of Penguins management and ownership?
Edit-
Rest of the Lustig quote:
“People say he is a cheap owner, but nothing is further from the truth. He allocates the money properly. He wants to make enough money to keep us from going into the red. He is running the business rationally, trying to make money. No small-market teams that win make money.”
Dude does a great job. He spends money where its needed. Have you been to 7 Springs lately? Its gorgeous. And now your season pass is good at Hidden Valley too
Where do you think that money is coming from to makes 7 springs so nice?
They got an extra 25 million a year in TV revenue this year; payroll went up a few million at most. Huntington does a good job given the circumstances, nutting is an ass pirate.
Asuna
Lvl 94 Sub-Leader
Ogrezilla
Nerf Herder
Where do you think that money is coming from to makes 7 springs so nice?
see Winger for Hire. There are more things to spend money on other than the roster.
Oh please, yes they spent some money developing the farm system; great you don't think other clubs do that at as well?
3rd most profitable team... they said attendance would drive payroll.... well attendance is way up; payroll is still below average.
