Left wing or Left D?

[BruinsFanMike82]

Just to add a little more info to my list of LHD above, here are their ATOI at 5v5 since January 1. I'll add in the Bruins Dmen for perspective.

1. **Zdeno Chara**: 18:31
2. Jack Johnson: 18:17
3. Dmitry Orlov: 17:51
4. Brian Dumoulin: 17:22
5. Ian Cole: 17:07
6. Calvin de Haan: 17:04
7. Marco Scandella: 16:50
8. Jake Muzzin: 16:49
9. Jon Merrill: 16:28
10. **Torey Krug**: 16:17
11. **Brandon Carlo**: 16:11
12. Noah Hanifin: 15:44
13. **Kevan Miller**: 15:30
14. Karl Alzner: 15:17
15. **Adam McQuaid**: 15:09

I left off McAvoy due to the small sample size, but his 5v5 ATOI was 20:34 during the playoffs.

 

[bruinmann77]

I hope DS sticks to his guns and not overpay for Landeskog just not worth it in my opinion.

 

[Jokerz1]

What about Michael Del Zotto? If i"m not mistaken he is a left handed D, played pretty well for Philly, and is a RFA if I'm not mistaken.

 

[Brewins]

What about Michael Del Zotto? If i"m not mistaken he is a left handed D, played pretty well for Philly, and is a RFA if I'm not mistaken.

Del zotto reminds me of tyler Meyers consistency mixed with ribiero's personality and attitude. Not as bad as either one in those regards, but inconsistent and doesn't come off as dedicated.

 

[ODAAT]

What about Michael Del Zotto? If i"m not mistaken he is a left handed D, played pretty well for Philly, and is a RFA if I'm not mistaken.

I`d prefer Brendan Smith between the two. I didn`t mind Smith`s game this post season, plays with some bite, won`t offer much offensively but that`s ok.

 

[wintersej]

Landeskog should be Sweeneys top priority if Sakic is ok without Carlo/McAvoy in the deal. I'd even overpay if that was the case.

But in reality I think a top four LHD would be a luxury. Chara/Krug with McAvoy and Carlo on the right side is more than adequate for a playoff team. When you add in the possibility of O'Gara taking over 3rd pairing, and Zboril/Lauzon (with Lindgren in the coming years) a possibility, I'm not overanxious at acquiring a LHD.

Is it a luxury, or the fastest path for the Bruins to be a contender again? Are the Nashville or Ducks forward groups any better than the Bruins? Are their goalies any better? No. It's the D group.

Fowler/Montour
Lindholm/Manson
Theodore/Vatanen

Josi/Ellis
Ekholm/Subban
Irwin/Weber

Chara/Carlo
XXX/McAvoy
Krug/McQuaid

Is there something you can plug in there to make the Bruins group not look out of place?

 

[Flannelman]

Is there something you can plug in there to make the Bruins group not look out of place?

Alzner I think fits. But the issue goes back to cap. Able to move Hayes, Killer and Belesekey and then maybe it makes sense.

 

[Colt.45Orr]

I can't take people seriously when they have Krug as a 3rd pairing D.

 

[ODAAT]

I can't take people seriously when they have Krug as a 3rd pairing D.

I don`t get it either, beyond me, I love the guy and that may cloud my judgement from time to time but this guy belongs nowhere near a 5/6th spot

 

[ORR2Sanderson2ORR]

I'd go for a young talented center myself

 

[Colt.45Orr]

I don`t get it either, beyond me, I love the guy and that may cloud my judgement from time to time but this guy belongs nowhere near a 5/6th spot

There was one.

ONE.


ONE.


ONE


NHL Left-handed Dman that had more points than Krug last year...
and yet some people have him as the 3rd LH Dman on the Bruins alone. Comical.



*edit: I hope I'm right on the "ONE" thing or this is going to be pretty silly.

 

[Absurdity]

There was one.

ONE.


ONE.


ONE


NHL Left-handed Dman that had more points than Krug last year...
and yet some people have him as the 3rd LH Dman on the Bruins alone. Comical.



*edit: I hope I'm right on the "ONE" thing or this is going to be pretty silly.

Hedman and Keith, but the point still stands. Krug is a very important player for the Bruins and should be utilized as the top 4D that he is rather than be paired with Kevan Miller or McQuaid on the 3rd pairing (what Haggerty proposed in an article mentioned a few pages back).

 

[ODAAT]

There was one.

ONE.


ONE.


ONE


NHL Left-handed Dman that had more points than Krug last year...
and yet some people have him as the 3rd LH Dman on the Bruins alone. Comical.



*edit: I hope I'm right on the "ONE" thing or this is going to be pretty silly.

haha, I hope for your sake too, although even if there was two, I`d still be on your side

We going to see a Krug/McAvoy pairing this year? That`d be fun

 

[Gee Wally]

Here are teams the Bruins could trade with to get left-shot defensemen
http://www.bostonglobe.com/sports/b...-defensemen/fsjJZIj54P9L8nlwxEDmLI/story.html

 

[ORR2Sanderson2ORR]

Here are teams the Bruins could trade with to get left-shot defensemen
http://www.bostonglobe.com/sports/b...-defensemen/fsjJZIj54P9L8nlwxEDmLI/story.html

I would love me some Jonas Brodin but I'm sure he would cost, as there would be teams lining up for his services.

 

[PlayMakers]

It's clear the Bruins short to medium term needs are at LW and LD.

The Bruins have the following prospects (or young players) at the positions.

LW: DeBrusk, Heinen, Vatrano, Cehlarik, Gabrielle, Donato, maybe Bjork
LD: Zboril, Lauzon, O'Gara, Gryz

Keeping in mind that the cost of D tends to be higher, which would you make the priority in a trade?

I don't see either as a need.

Organizationally they're thinnest at RW.

In terms of improving the team for next year? I'd think upgrading the 3c spot is the area they can have the biggest impact.

 

[JAD]

I don't see either as a need.

Organizationally they're thinnest at RW.

In terms of improving the team for next year? I'd think upgrading the 3c spot is the area they can have the biggest impact.

Agree.
I don't see the LD as and area of immediate need this coming season. Also, by the time the following season ( year after next) rolls around hopefully one of the prospects will be ready to push for a spot if not grab it.

Biggest need this off-season going into next is secondary scoring, with RW being the weakest link. Center and left wing have best chances of being filled in house by prospects, however if it can be done at reasonable cost, bring in an established player(s) at either position with scoring ability and toughness would allow prospects further development time.

 

[wintersej]

Regarding the outrage of Krug being on the "bottom pairing"...Vatanen, for instance, is on the Ducks "bottom pairing", but still managed to have MORE average TOI than Krug or "top pairing" Carlo did last season. Shattenkirk has been getting his 20 mins from the bottom pairing for a few years now. I think everyone on these boards understands what Krug brings and loves Krug and when you have a deep D group your deployments are going to be different than when you have a primo pairing playing 25+ mins a night and you hide your bottom pairing.

I think you have three options with the D... I'm going to use "MKC" to abbreviate that bottom pair RD of one of McQuaid/Kevan/Colin.

Option 1:
Chara McAvoy
Krug Carlo
XXX MKC

In this scenario, like they did with Hamilton, you will probably see the Bruins give the Chara pairing less difficult deployments than he got the last couple years to put McAvoy in some more offense-friendly situations. This means that either Krug/Carlo or the 3rd pairing gets some harder minutes. Count me as firmly against this idea. I really like Carlo playing with Chara for Carlo's development. I think the Chara/Carlo is an effective shutdown pairing and is giving Carlo the experience to handle the matchups he will get when Chara moves on. I also think that playing Carlo with Krug (who you want to give offense-friendly deployments to) is a waste of Carlo.

But, if you do go this route, you want that final LD to be someone who can play PK and makes that pairing one that doesn't need sheltering because you can't afford to shelter it if you want to give the McAvoy pairing AND the Krug pairing offense-friendly matchups.

Option 2:
Chara-Carlo
Krug-McAvoy
XXX-MKC

Like option 1, this lineup is best if you don't have to shelter your bottom pairing because you really want to give that 2nd pairing all the offensive chances. This is a very very interesting idea, but still really requires an addition to the bottom pairing to make it one you don't have to shelter because Krug/McAvoy will get all the fun minutes and anytime you have to protect the bottom pairing, you are stabbing Krug/McAvoy in the back. Watching Ellis/Josi makes me wonder if this could work, but I also wonder if there are enough pucks to go around for Krug and McAvoy if they are on the same pairing.

Option 3:
Chara/Carlo
XXX/McAvoy
Krug/MKC

You can swap the order of the McAvoy and Krug pairing if that floats your boat. Heck, you can swap the order of any pairings in this setup. You have a shutdown Chara/Carlo pairing and then two balanced pairings, each with a guy that can be a threat in the offensive zone. Notably with the Pens moving Kessel to the Bonino line last year, but in general, there has been a (smart) movement towards spreading out your offensive talent across your forward lines to be a threat at all times. I think the natural evolution of this idea is to do the same on the backend. The XXX you would need to compliment McAvoy also happens to be the type of D that can help take the load off Chara.. a LD that can play on the PK and you don't have to hide from harder matchups. Someone like Brodin, DeHaan, etc.

 

[s3antana5757]

Here are teams the Bruins could trade with to get left-shot defensemen
http://www.bostonglobe.com/sports/b...-defensemen/fsjJZIj54P9L8nlwxEDmLI/story.html

Really like the Brodin idea. I'd be willing to give up a ton to get him. But if you listen to Minnesota fans on the trade board, they have accepted they are going to lose of them, so they'd prefer not to move either.

Regarding the outrage of Krug being on the "bottom pairing"...Vatanen, for instance, is on the Ducks "bottom pairing", but still managed to have MORE average TOI than Krug or "top pairing" Carlo did last season. Shattenkirk has been getting his 20 mins from the bottom pairing for a few years now. I think everyone on these boards understands what Krug brings and loves Krug and when you have a deep D group your deployments are going to be different than when you have a primo pairing playing 25+ mins a night and you hide your bottom pairing.

I think you have three options with the D... I'm going to use "MKC" to abbreviate that bottom pair RD of one of McQuaid/Kevan/Colin.

Option 1:
Chara McAvoy
Krug Carlo
XXX MKC

In this scenario, like they did with Hamilton, you will probably see the Bruins give the Chara pairing less difficult deployments than he got the last couple years to put McAvoy in some more offense-friendly situations. This means that either Krug/Carlo or the 3rd pairing gets some harder minutes. Count me as firmly against this idea. I really like Carlo playing with Chara for Carlo's development. I think the Chara/Carlo is an effective shutdown pairing and is giving Carlo the experience to handle the matchups he will get when Chara moves on. I also think that playing Carlo with Krug (who you want to give offense-friendly deployments to) is a waste of Carlo.

But, if you do go this route, you want that final LD to be someone who can play PK and makes that pairing one that doesn't need sheltering because you can't afford to shelter it if you want to give the McAvoy pairing AND the Krug pairing offense-friendly matchups.

Option 2:
Chara-Carlo
Krug-McAvoy
XXX-MKC

Like option 1, this lineup is best if you don't have to shelter your bottom pairing because you really want to give that 2nd pairing all the offensive chances. This is a very very interesting idea, but still really requires an addition to the bottom pairing to make it one you don't have to shelter because Krug/McAvoy will get all the fun minutes and anytime you have to protect the bottom pairing, you are stabbing Krug/McAvoy in the back. Watching Ellis/Josi makes me wonder if this could work, but I also wonder if there are enough pucks to go around for Krug and McAvoy if they are on the same pairing.

Option 3:
Chara/Carlo
XXX/McAvoy
Krug/MKC

You can swap the order of the McAvoy and Krug pairing if that floats your boat. Heck, you can swap the order of any pairings in this setup. You have a shutdown Chara/Carlo pairing and then two balanced pairings, each with a guy that can be a threat in the offensive zone. Notably with the Pens moving Kessel to the Bonino line last year, but in general, there has been a (smart) movement towards spreading out your offensive talent across your forward lines to be a threat at all times. I think the natural evolution of this idea is to do the same on the backend. The XXX you would need to compliment McAvoy also happens to be the type of D that can help take the load off Chara.. a LD that can play on the PK and you don't have to hide from harder matchups. Someone like Brodin, DeHaan, etc.

Really good post and covers really well what the thought process should be. I personally think that if you can acquire that top pairing LHD to pair with McAvoy, everything slides into place. Whether you consider Krug or Chara the bottom pairing, all the skill, talent, and ability is there for this defense group to be spectacular for years to come.

 

[neelynugs]

Really like the Brodin idea. I'd be willing to give up a ton to get him. But if you listen to Minnesota fans on the trade board, they have accepted they are going to lose of them, so they'd prefer not to move either.

.

was thinking about all this and wondered if you dealt kevan miller + 1st rounder to minnesota for brodin, wouldn't that be a win-win? we get brodin and protect him, they get the 1st round pick (versus nothing) and also miller...and so they still lose a D, but they still will have 4 quality guys plus the pick. if they like colin miller more than kevan miller, same idea, just flip millers. i guess it comes down to how much you like/think of kevan miller, and how big of an upgrade brodin would be.

 

[bearcountry17]

was thinking about all this and wondered if you dealt kevan miller + 1st rounder to minnesota for brodin, wouldn't that be a win-win? we get brodin and protect him, they get the 1st round pick (versus nothing) and also miller...and so they still lose a D, but they still will have 4 quality guys plus the pick. if they like colin miller more than kevan miller, same idea, just flip millers. i guess it comes down to how much you like/think of kevan miller, and how big of an upgrade brodin would be.

I think Minnesota would prefer Carlo. Maybe they would do something like,

Carlo+1st+Colin Miller+ prospect+cap dump
for
Brodin and Dumba/Scandella

Suter-Dumba/Scandella
Spurgeon-Carlo

Chara-Mcavoy
Krug-Brodin
Scandella/Dumba-K. Miller

 

[wintersej]

I don't see either as a need.

Organizationally they're thinnest at RW.

In terms of improving the team for next year? I'd think upgrading the 3c spot is the area they can have the biggest impact.

Ok, how about prying Nelson and DeHaan away from the Islanders using Spooner and expansion exempt futures. Then we both are happy?

Marchand Bergeron Nelson
DeBrusk Krejci Pasta
Vatrano Backes Heinen
Beleksey JFK/Kuraly Nash

Chara Carlo
DeHaan McAvoy
Krug McQuaid

 

[ORR2Sanderson2ORR]

was thinking about all this and wondered if you dealt kevan miller + 1st rounder to minnesota for brodin, wouldn't that be a win-win? we get brodin and protect him, they get the 1st round pick (versus nothing) and also miller...and so they still lose a D, but they still will have 4 quality guys plus the pick. if they like colin miller more than kevan miller, same idea, just flip millers. i guess it comes down to how much you like/think of kevan miller, and how big of an upgrade brodin would be.

Minnesota hangs up and probably wouldn't answer back.

Brodins value is way higher. If the Bruins are to land him one of Zboril or Lauzin are heading the other way.

 

[s3antana5757]

was thinking about all this and wondered if you dealt kevan miller + 1st rounder to minnesota for brodin, wouldn't that be a win-win? we get brodin and protect him, they get the 1st round pick (versus nothing) and also miller...and so they still lose a D, but they still will have 4 quality guys plus the pick. if they like colin miller more than kevan miller, same idea, just flip millers. i guess it comes down to how much you like/think of kevan miller, and how big of an upgrade brodin would be.

Value isn't there and assuming that Scandella and Brodin would not be protected, you end up trading Brodin and losing Scandella and are left with the first and K. Miller. You'd rather just expose both and lose one. It would be a different story if they were just going to lose one guy. This comes from Minnesota fans.

I think Minnesota would prefer Carlo. Maybe they would do something like,

Carlo+1st+Colin Miller+ prospect+cap dump
for
Brodin and Dumba/Scandella

Suter-Dumba/Scandella
Spurgeon-Carlo

Chara-Mcavoy
Krug-Brodin
Scandella/Dumba-K. Miller

I hadn't thought along these lines yet. It's an interesting idea. If you give them an expansion exempt guy(Carlo) plus some other pieces, maybe it gets it done. In this scenario though, you'd have to give them enough value to exceed Scandella/Brodin. I think maybe they could have interest in Carlo and some other big time pieces(Spooner, picks, prospects). Think they'd probably just lose C. Miller in a trade.

Edit: Boston would just end up losing one of Brodin/Scandella(or Krug) anyways. So I'm not sure there's a deal to be made here. Boston can't go the 8 skater route with all the NMCs.

Minnesota hangs up and probably wouldn't answer back.

Brodins value is way higher. If the Bruins are to land him one of Zboril or Lauzin are heading the other way.

Yeah I agree. Plus, they're in win now mode, so I think you'd have to give them something like Spooner, Subban, 1st, and some other prospects/players that are close or are already contributors.

I would love Brodin, but I will say that Fowler or Hanifan are likely a more realistic target. I would give basically the entire farm to get OEL. Would a team turn down Zboril, Lauzon or Lingdren, Spooner, LW prospect(DeBrusk, Chelarik, Vatrano, Bjork), maybe a Morrow/Miller, 1st? That's alot of value to say no to. Solidifies Boston's defenseman and we still have tons of prospects and guys that can fill into empty roles in the coming years.

 

[ORR2Sanderson2ORR]

Value isn't there and assuming that Scandella and Brodin would not be protected, you end up trading Brodin and losing Scandella and are left with the first and K. Miller. You'd rather just expose both and lose one. It would be a different story if they were just going to lose one guy. This comes from Minnesota fans.



I hadn't thought along these lines yet. It's an interesting idea. If you give them an expansion exempt guy(Carlo) plus some other pieces, maybe it gets it done. In this scenario though, you'd have to give them enough value to exceed Scandella/Brodin.



Yeah I agree. Plus, they're in win now mode, so I think you'd have to give them something like Spooner, Subban, 1st, and some other prospects/players that are close or are already contributors.

I would love Brodin, but I will say that Fowler or Hanifan are likely a more realistic target. I would give basically the entire farm to get OEL.

Big OEL fan but Charlie Mac is here and and he fills a big void and if they can add a Brodin at only 23 are defense is set for yrs without giving up the farm for OEL, but I'd love him as a Bruin.