The Athletic LeBrun: There are no easy answers for the questions facing Kevyn Adams’ Sabres

[May Day 10]

That wont happen as long as Pegula is owner.

I cant imagine it will... which is why these results will continue for the forseeable future. The ceiling for this franchise is snaking a 2nd wild card spot and losing in the 1st round by 4 or 5 games.

What will likely happen is they will conduct a shifting of job titles and Karmanos will become the "named" GM, and not much will change. This will get the media off their backs for awhile and half or more of the fanbase will shift into "you have to give Karmanos a chance to clean this up" and "you cant keep changing GMs". Then, in 4 or 5 years, we will be back at the precipice like where we are now.

 

[Fjordy]

I cant imagine it will... which is why these results will continue for the forseeable future. The ceiling for this franchise is snaking a 2nd wild card spot and losing in the 1st round by 4 or 5 games.

What will likely happen is they will conduct a shifting of job titles and Karmanos will become the "named" GM, and not much will change. This will get the media off their backs for awhile and half or more of the fanbase will shift into "you have to give Karmanos a chance to clean this up" and "you cant keep changing GMs". Then, in 4 or 5 years, we will be back at the precipice like where we are now.

Even if Karmanos becomes GM he will only have 9 months to fix the situation, no excuses work, you have a core that is already aging and they don't have much time and a bunch of kids and marginal players. Only 9 months.

 

[WeDislikeEich]

I can as long as Adams continues to communicate well with Terry. And from when Kevyn said recently, he talks to Terry every day.

And continues to pay such close attention to the bottom line ($$).

Pegula has his “efficient and economic” vision he wants to see through and Adams is executing that for him.

 

[Chainshot]

In the realm of “no shit Pierre”.

 

[57special]

Lots of correct things. I wish people would stop adding the requirement of how much of a nice/likeable guy Kevyn Adams is. Is he really? What he stooped to in order to land that position (bloodbath firings in a pandemic) (and also, if you are to believe Peters, bad-mouthing Botterill to Kim and Terry Pegula in the shadows)... makes me not really like him. His stances in his PCs and interviews arent likeable.

There is only 1 answer here. The most important Lebrun sentence is the shortest one: "It is a damaged brand".

This is absolutely the case. It is damaged on all fronts in the hockey world, with fans, and I wonder if the players aren't too prideful and hopeful in playing for this organization. The only way to fix this is a seismic change in the way Pegula has done things. That is immediate dismissal of Kevyn Adams and bringing in a POHO who has been given contractual autonomy and promised resources to build a professional hockey program once again. An apology to the fans would be appreciated, but I would take the rest of it without the apology.

No one ever said Sam Pollock was a nice guy, or Scotty Bowman. Nice is optional, winning is not. Get a guy who knows how to win. Zito, Fitzgerald and even Armstrong have been good or better young'ish GM's that have been hired relatively recently, and have done a good job building their teams from a similar place to where BUF is now.

Pegula needs smart people in his ear, who know the up and coming organizational talent in the league.

 

[ClearTheTrack]

Lots of correct things. I wish people would stop adding the requirement of how much of a nice/likeable guy Kevyn Adams is. Is he really? What he stooped to in order to land that position (bloodbath firings in a pandemic) (and also, if you are to believe Peters, bad-mouthing Botterill to Kim and Terry Pegula in the shadows)... makes me not really like him. His stances in his PCs and interviews arent likeable.

There is only 1 answer here. The most important Lebrun sentence is the shortest one: "It is a damaged brand".

This is absolutely the case. It is damaged on all fronts in the hockey world, with fans, and I wonder if the players aren't too prideful and hopeful in playing for this organization. The only way to fix this is a seismic change in the way Pegula has done things. That is immediate dismissal of Kevyn Adams and bringing in a POHO who has been given contractual autonomy and promised resources to build a professional hockey program once again. An apology to the fans would be appreciated, but I would take the rest of it without the apology.

nothing to add but just wanted to point out that all of this is gold - notably pointing out the faux nice-guy label being given too often to KA. Probably stems from the fact that he can give a big smile which obviously can't be trusted.

 

[Ace]

Gonna be a real monkeys paw situation when Adams is promoted to president of hockey ops and everyone gets the Pegula version of what they asked for

 

[MagnumForce2]

Yeah. This team isnt one swift trade away from competiting. Fire Adams. Let the new GM navigate the market and get a feel of who he wants to keep. The last thing we need is Adams making an impulse trade trying to save a season that's already down the toilet.

Pegula should be focusing on a GM/HC search rather than allowing Adams to make another trade.

This… good post

 

[Chainshot]

No one ever said Sam Pollock was a nice guy, or Scotty Bowman. Nice is optional, winning is not. Get a guy who knows how to win. Zito, Fitzgerald and even Armstrong have been good or better young'ish GM's that have been hired relatively recently, and have done a good job building their teams from a similar place to where BUF is now.

Pegula needs smart people in his ear, who know the up and coming organizational talent in the league.

Zito was someone the Sabres did a preliminary interview with Buffalo when they hired Botterill. Not saying he would've had the same impact, but it's certainly a swing and a miss.

And Lebrun makes the point I've tried making time after time - they don't have enough experience and hockey people in the front office. There is no publicly known senior advisor. There isn't a guy like Dudley or Bowman (yick) who scout on top of providing advice. Nothing.

f***, the last time Pegs did interviews for that in 2020, he interviewed Doug MacLean founder of the famine that was the 2000's Blue Jackets.

 

[ValJamesDuex]

They all need to go. Whitewash. Maybe not all at once because they need to keep the lights on, but in my mind, some of these long tenures that management has been attached to need to be severed:
Adams
Ruff
Appert (the rest of the asst coaching staff and also that new appert they hired in Rochester (Terry has a 'type")
Nightingale
Forton
Jakubowski
Crowe
Ventura
Karmanos.

It needs to be completely rebuilt from the top-down without any preconditions.

You do know Forton is the owners relation, and was just given a raise/new position this summer ?

 

[Fjordy]

You do know Forton is the owners relation, and was just given a raise/new position this summer ?

And I was talking about nepotism.

 

[ValJamesDuex]

And I was talking about nepotism.

Forton has sounded like the most competent man in room during the draft process.

 

[May Day 10]

All the more reason to get rid of him if he is holding a high level position for the wrong reasons.

If we need to keep food on a relative's table, make him vp of alumni relations or something. He can send those fences and not contribute to the further damage of the on ice product and integrity of the franchise.

 

[Fjordy]

Forton has sounded like the most competent man in room during the draft process.

Appearances can be deceiving, and while I don't blame Forton for Adams' failure, we definitely need to rethink our scouting department, like everything else. But I also have a lot of questions about the draft.

 

[May Day 10]

That's also not a very high bar to sound the most competent out of this crew.

I will say, IF a hypothetical and not happening POHO had a place for forton, I'd be fine with it.
I just think, if this hypothetical and not happening search for poho is happening and there are all sorts of preconditions that they are required to maintain a bunch of the dead baggage here, then nobody is going to be interested.

 

[jc17]

They all need to go. Whitewash. Maybe not all at once because they need to keep the lights on, but in my mind, some of these long tenures that management has been attached to need to be severed:
Adams
Ruff
Appert (the rest of the asst coaching staff and also that new appert they hired in Rochester (Terry has a 'type")
Nightingale
Forton
Jakubowski
Crowe
Ventura
Karmanos.

It needs to be completely rebuilt from the top-down without any preconditions.

I'll keep karmanos and Ventura. They at least seem to have worked their way up in ranks outside of this organization

Would really love to know how much of a voice analytics has on the roster.

Little attachment to the rest. I posted this before, and feel somewhat slimy to call for specific jobs when their body of work isn't super public, but Crowe and nightingale bother me. They've each held multiple job titles, and to me its the "cheapest " feeling part of the organization

Like really, it just so happens that when we hired an experienced director of hockey analytics, that the old director was a good fit for amateur scouting director? Not to mention we were an analytical disaster when that guy held the position.

Or that the director of pro scouting just happened to work at the harbor center and was also a pro scout during the time frame every pro we signed/ traded for was a pile of crap?

 

[Fjordy]

I'll keep karmanos and Ventura. They at least seem to have worked their way up in ranks outside of this organization

Would really love to know how much of a voice analytics has on the roster.

Little attachment to the rest. I posted this before, and feel somewhat slimy to call for specific jobs when their body of work isn't super public, but Crowe and nightingale bother me. They've each held multiple job titles, and to me its the "cheapest " feeling part of the organization

Like really, it just so happens that when we hired an experienced director of hockey analytics, that the old director was a good fit for amateur scouting director? Not to mention we were an analytical disaster when that guy held the position.

Or that the director of pro scouting just happened to work at the harbor center and was also a pro scout during the time frame every pro we signed/ traded for was a pile of crap?

Versatile employees.

I think I would keep Ventura, I'm not sure about Karmanos, although they both seem to have interviewed for GM positions in other organizations. Rutherford, by the way, knows Karmanos very well and still didn't hire him for the Canucks

If we get a POHO (well, you never know, Terry will have an idea), then he should probably decide who to keep and who not. If we have to tear everything down, I'm not against it. But the GM search should be thorough.

 

[Ace]

Congrats to Forton sounding the most professional in a room led by an unqualified yes man whose strings are pulled to cut costs and tell you the owner really cares.

We should chip in on a nice fruit basket that he can carry out the f***ing door with the rest of them.

Scorched earth. Rotted through.

 

[Fjordy]

Congrats to Forton sounding the most professional in a room led by an unqualified yes man whose strings are pulled to cut costs and tell you the owner really cares.

We should chip in on a nice fruit basket that he can carry our the f***ing door with the rest of them.

Scorched earth. Rotted through.

Yeah, I remembered Forton crying about Adams, what a great GM he is, how he fixed everything here. Maybe Forton likes him, of course, that he is allowed to do whatever he wants in the draft, but did he think about the fans? Or he just drafts and is happy with everything, that the franchise is in complete shit.

 

[ValJamesDuex]

Appearances can be deceiving, and while I don't blame Forton for Adams' failure, we definitely need to rethink our scouting department, like everything else. But I also have a lot of questions about the draft.

Harrington or someone brought up the continued lack of scouts in the hockey department to Adams in the last media scrum and he skimmed over the question.

 

[Fjordy]

Harrington or someone brought up the continued lack of scouts in the hockey department to Adams in the last media scrum and he skimmed over the question.

Adams was clueless at this press conference, and now he's hiding somewhere in his office and is afraid of every rustle and call.

 

[jc17]

Yeah, I remembered Forton crying about Adams, what a great GM he is, how he fixed everything here. Maybe Forton likes him, of course, that he is allowed to do whatever he wants in the draft, but did he think about the fans? Or he just drafts and is happy with everything, that the franchise is in complete shit.

Forton seems like a good dude. I want to like him

Buuuut, my gripe there is that his praise of Adams was about getting out of the way, which really could be good or bad. I know it's super nitpicky but I want to hear praise for dedication to "getting it right", not simply deferring to guys who may or may not be good at their jobs to decide the future

 

[ValJamesDuex]

Yeah, I remembered Forton crying about Adams, what a great GM he is, how he fixed everything here. Maybe Forton likes him, of course, that he is allowed to do whatever he wants in the draft, but did he think about the fans? Or he just drafts and is happy with everything, that the franchise is in complete shit.

In a alternative universe it might of been a good partnership, but a inexperienced Gm did not do enough, rested on his laurels and relied too much in internal development, not spend to the cap, built a low hockey IQ team, and was passed by his opponents. l'm not sure he still understands that last point but I think he knows he's in deep shi* now for sure!

 

[toddkaz]

Why does it feel like Adams will fail upwards

 

[sabremike]

Versatile employees.

I think I would keep Ventura, I'm not sure about Karmanos, although they both seem to have interviewed for GM positions in other organizations. Rutherford, by the way, knows Karmanos very well and still didn't hire him for the Canucks

If we get a POHO (well, you never know, Terry will have an idea), then he should probably decide who to keep and who not. If we have to tear everything down, I'm not against it. But the GM search should be thorough.

I think Rutherford had a falling out with Hellboy's dad so that might have been an issue.