RunItBackAgain
“We were right there”
- Oct 14, 2021
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Pre-Game Talk: Leafs vs Predators
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PromisedLand
I need more FOOD
Disclaimer: I think using Stats without context is absolutely SUTPID!!!!
That said, even using stats blindly you can see Matthews is a lot better with Nylander than Marner.
Table 1: Matthews WOWY with Nylander and Marner
Table 2: Tavares WOWY with Nylander and Marner
Heree is a WOWY stats from natural stattrick for Matthews With and WIthout Marner.
Matthews WOWY
Auston Matthews - Teammates - On Ice - Natural Stat Trick
TABLE 1
| WOWY - Matthews | William Nylander | Mitchell Marner |
| TOI With | 146 | 71 |
| CF% With | 57.38 | 57.89 |
| Matthews CF% Without | 58.16 | 57.52 |
| CF% Without Matthews | 54.17 | 47.18 |
| SF% With | 52.23 | 55.74 |
| Matthews SF% Without | 61.33 | 54.97 |
| SF% Without Matthews | 42.59 | 42.52 |
| GF% With | 54.55 | 25 |
| Matthews GF% Without | 40 | 58.33 |
| GF% Without Matthews | 28.57 | 53.85 |
| xGF% With | 64.5 | 58.75 |
| Matthews xGF% Without | 57.48 | 63.88 |
| xGF% Without Matthews | 46.68 | 46.09 |
| SCF% With | 63.74 | 61.04 |
| Matthews SCF% Without | 60.76 | 63.58 |
| SCF% Without Matthews | 51.79 | 51.91 |
| HDCF% With | 59.7 | 39.13 |
| Matthews HDCF% Without | 46.15 | 61.43 |
| HDCF% Without Matthews | 47.62 | 50 |
Tavares WOWY
John Tavares - Teammates - On Ice - Natural Stat Trick
TABLE 2
| WOWY - Tavares | William Nylander | Mitchell Marner |
| TOI With | 53 | 164 |
| CF% With | 62.61 | 51.5 |
| Tavares CF% Without | 49.71 | 56.91 |
| CF% Without Tavares | 57.32 | 52.85 |
| SF% With | 60.94 | 47.88 |
| Tavares SF% Without | 45.03 | 52.86 |
| SF% Without Tavares | 50 | 47.37 |
| GF% With | 44.44 | 50 |
| Tavares GF% Without | 57.14 | 55.56 |
| GF% Without Tavares | 45.45 | 33.33 |
| xGF% With | 72.22 | 50.78 |
| Tavares xGF% Without | 46.64 | 62.56 |
| xGF% Without Tavares | 58.71 | 51.77 |
| SCF% With | 64.62 | 54.89 |
| Tavares SCF% Without | 52.41 | 57.35 |
| SCF% Without Tavares | 60.53 | 57.14 |
| HDCF% With | 75 | 52.11 |
| Tavares HDCF% Without | 44.62 | 59.09 |
| HDCF% Without Tavares | 53.85 | 37.5 |
Bottom Line:
- Nylander again looks better but Marner improves significantly with JT than with Matthews.
- Matthews is a freakin' STUD regardless who he plays with
- Matthews-Nylander and Tavares-Marner duos actually have a net positive together for the team than Matthews-Marner and Tavares-Nylander
P.S. This post took me freakin' forever to write I ain't writing such posts more often. UNless Dubas pays me to do this
kb
Registered User
- Aug 28, 2009
- 15,357
- 22,020
People can be happy with their season, but not their playoffs.
That's an option as well.
Disclaimer: I think using Stats without context is absolutely SUTPID!!!!
That said, even using stats blindly you can see Matthews is a lot better with Nylander than Marner.
Table 1: Matthews WOWY with Nylander and Marner
Table 2: Tavares WOWY with Nylander and Marner
Heree is a WOWY stats from natural stattrick for Matthews With and WIthout Marner.
Matthews WOWY
Auston Matthews - Teammates - On Ice - Natural Stat Trick
TABLE 1
[TBODY] [/TBODY]
WOWY - Matthews William Nylander Mitchell Marner TOI With 146 71 CF% With 57.38 57.89 Matthews CF% Without 58.16 57.52 CF% Without Matthews 54.17 47.18 SF% With 52.23 55.74 Matthews SF% Without 61.33 54.97 SF% Without Matthews 42.59 42.52 GF% With 54.55 25 Matthews GF% Without 40 58.33 GF% Without Matthews 28.57 53.85 xGF% With 64.5 58.75 Matthews xGF% Without 57.48 63.88 xGF% Without Matthews 46.68 46.09 SCF% With 63.74 61.04 Matthews SCF% Without 60.76 63.58 SCF% Without Matthews 51.79 51.91 HDCF% With 59.7 39.13 Matthews HDCF% Without 46.15 61.43 HDCF% Without Matthews 47.62 50
Tavares WOWY
John Tavares - Teammates - On Ice - Natural Stat Trick
TABLE 2
Bottom Line:[TBODY] [/TBODY]
WOWY - Tavares William Nylander Mitchell Marner TOI With 53 164 CF% With 62.61 51.5 Tavares CF% Without 49.71 56.91 CF% Without Tavares 57.32 52.85 SF% With 60.94 47.88 Tavares SF% Without 45.03 52.86 SF% Without Tavares 50 47.37 GF% With 44.44 50 Tavares GF% Without 57.14 55.56 GF% Without Tavares 45.45 33.33 xGF% With 72.22 50.78 Tavares xGF% Without 46.64 62.56 xGF% Without Tavares 58.71 51.77 SCF% With 64.62 54.89 Tavares SCF% Without 52.41 57.35 SCF% Without Tavares 60.53 57.14 HDCF% With 75 52.11 Tavares HDCF% Without 44.62 59.09 HDCF% Without Tavares 53.85 37.5
- Nylander again looks better but Marner improves significantly with JT than with Matthews.
- Matthews is a freakin' STUD regardless who he plays with
- Matthews-Nylander and Tavares-Marner duos actually have a net positive together for the team than Matthews-Marner and Tavares-Nylander
P.S. This post took me freakin' forever to write I ain't writing such posts more often. UNless Dubas pays me to do this
Had to like it just for the effort brotha.....doesnt take away from the fact Marner played almost all his minutes this year with Matthews just coming off wrist surgery with no training camp. All 4 are elite players but Marner/Matthews are established superstar linemates coming off a 2nd team all-star center and rocket win for Matthews + 1st team all star right wing for Marner. They were both in the top 5 for points last year and more importantly, both in the TOP 3 for 5v5 points. It was inevitable they go back to one of the best pairings in hockey.
Clark4Ever
What we do in hockey echoes in eternity...
Yes, but I don't think it was ever in the cards to split up Matthews and Marner long term. While the team has been winning, the offense has still been struggling for the most part. I think Keefe is trying to find the right mix for a more balanced attack. Matthews in particular has been struggling at even strength.
We'll see how it goes.
Nice to see Tavares at PPG+ 40+ goal level, don't think that's gonna continue without Marner at his wing.
Clark4Ever
What we do in hockey echoes in eternity...
Yes. Sandin/Liljegren have been the most encouraging story of the season thus far.
Judas Tavares
S2S (Sundin2Sandin)
- Feb 9, 2007
- 10,188
- 3,632
Nope, only playoffs count, rules are you aren't allowed to be positive until the team wins a round, and bah humbug that's not even enough! rawr.
kb
Registered User
- Aug 28, 2009
- 15,357
- 22,020
Here is the math equation.
Happiness = (what Leafs do) + x (x = more than what they do)
x = Happiness - (what Leafs do)
Coachcorner
Senor Martinez
- Sep 28, 2017
- 6,285
- 4,989
I'm just so glad... and was also during those playoff games against the ottawa senators back in the sundin domi tucker days.... that we ain't the ottawa senators mayne.
There was a time just a few days ago that if we had 3 more points, a Canadian team would have been leading in 3 of the 4 divisions. Not our fault we had no team in the Metro. LOL! Edmonton and Calgary made up for it by sitting 1,2 in their division. LMAO!
Leafidelity
Existentially Drifting
Have you blocked out the playoffs? The 34-16 combo sunk them and hasn't been effective for a long while. Keefe was too stubborn to change the cold lines till it was too late.
OK.......Putting aside they may have had the greatest season as a line in Leafs history,
Marner/Matthews line 2021 playoffs:
CF%: 54.83
SF%: 60.87
SCF%: 59.09
HDCF%: 69.53
xGF%: 68.10
GF%: 73.41
Yea it sucked they only combined for 9 points (Price may have had a hand in that) but they absolutely dominated the Habs top line to the point it had to be broken up.
When did this "long while" start?
It's strange how some fans will argue, 10 games small sample size, 20 games only 1/4 into the season too early to gloat or whatever. Come playoffs 4 games means you suck who cares about sample size. It's great to win the Stanley Cup but the Habs are a glaring example of what can happen in the playoffs.
Leafidelity
Existentially Drifting
All the pretty underlying stats in the world don't matter when they combine for 9 points. The rest above is meaningless. There's no such thing as an underlying victory in the playoffs.
The long while is the weeks leading into the playoffs when they went cooled off, the playoffs where they continued being cold, and the start of this season.
Like I originally said above, the result of this shakeup will speak for itself. I hope Im wrong
Believe me, I do understand the frustration but have to logically counter by saying if the other lines had exactly the same outcomes (3-1 5v5 goal differential), the Leafs win the series in 4 or 5. The PP is where the team failed the most IMO but Price wrecked a number of teams and stars on the way to the finals. I don't like the fact that of all the ways the Leafs fail, Matthews/Marner hitting too many posts and getting stoned too many times happened to be one of the main reasons but that doesn't mean to say they were playing nearly as bad as so many have been decrying. If they were failing to generate chances and not dominating the ice whenever they were on it, we would agree and things would be so much easier.
I understand Keefe going back to pretty much original lines coming into the season and see if it works but the team are 8-2 with the current setup, why do you want to change that?
Do it in game and bring this along slowly. Like try MM-AM-Ritchie in the ozone and shelter that line and see how it goes.
Personally, if you are going to make change, go all in like have Spezza-AF-Willie, Ritchie-AM-MM, Bunting-JT-Simmonds and Engvall-Kampf-Kase or something.
Do it in game and bring this along slowly. Like try MM-AM-Ritchie in the ozone and shelter that line and see how it goes.
Personally, if you are going to make change, go all in like have Spezza-AF-Willie, Ritchie-AM-MM, Bunting-JT-Simmonds and Engvall-Kampf-Kase or something.
Give it a rest, they failed in the playoffs last season and the year before that.
They just didn’t play perform, and let’s hope they do well from now on.
Coachcorner
Senor Martinez
- Sep 28, 2017
- 6,285
- 4,989
So I was right yesterday when I made the pre-season thread sire...? Like woah, I was actually just throwing that in there under the title. Like I sensed it we was going to change it around even though we is winning......... wow. I neither don't like big changes after a winning run. Our powerplay is also being aaaaight lately. So has it been confirmed that ritchie is back with the big boyz, the bad boys with line one now? During practise they doin that dirt now uh?
2 Slick
Registered User
So putting Ritchie on the first line accomplished nothing for the first month, they've won 8 of their last 9 games, so he decides it's a good idea to have him back on the first line?
What about when they went 2-4-1 when he was on the first line and did absolutely NOTHING?
The hell is wrong with him?!
Marner isn't going to turn him into a goal scorer magically. This will just hinder Matthews point production even more.
Puzzling move.
What about when they went 2-4-1 when he was on the first line and did absolutely NOTHING?
The hell is wrong with him?!
Marner isn't going to turn him into a goal scorer magically. This will just hinder Matthews point production even more.
Puzzling move.
Racer88
Registered User
- Sep 29, 2020
- 13,186
- 13,340
Fair enough although Id be hoping for a full lineup and actually having the better goaltender for once in my life above everything else at the moment. The combined 19 points in 12 games would be more than enough if those things ring true for once.
I guess that's the thing. While Nylander and Matthews look out of sync they are:
1. Winning (which is most important)
2. Putting up points
3. Allowing Our 11M captain to play with one of the best playmakers in the game in which case both Marner and JT look great and much better together than they did when apart.
So while switching it up to see if you can get more synergy makes sense to me, I completely understand the notion of "if it ain't broke don't fix it". We'll see how it all plays out
Happy to see Marner and Matthews again, they started off cold and Matthews joined ice cold. They were so good last year, no reason to not try and catch that magic again.
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